What fast and fun "family" car would you buy for 30k?
Discussion
So, inspired by the new RS4 and BMW M5 threads and talk of 70k+ list prices and 1000 pound + monthly payments, made me wonder how good a buy one of these types of car would be at 5+ years old once they have taken their biggest depreciation hit. Are they good buys or would you be better off with something new/nearly new and less exotic?
So, if you had two children (and possibly a dog) and needed a four door "family" car that was practical for daily duties but still offered up driving enjoyment when you wanted it, which option would you take for 30k?
Option A
A new/nearly new mid-size hot hatch. You know the kind of thing. Civic Type R, Peugeot 308 GTi, SEAT Leon Cupra, Golf GTI/R, Focus RS, M140i, new Renaultsport Megane might be decent. These would all be fast and pretty good fun with the comfort of manageable running costs but depreciation would be quite heavy and space could be a little marginal for a family of four.
Option B
Go up a level in terms of performance, space and desirability and go for a high performance saloon/estate that has done its biggest chunk of depreciation. You can pretty much guarantee low to mid-20s mpg but running costs are a little more uncertain. Are these options all just as potentially ruinous? Being previous-gen cars, is the risk of still being targeted by thieving scrotes/carjackers still high (this and the price would put me off owning a current gen version of the vehicles below)? Possible contenders could be:
B8 RS4 Avant
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Good-looking, nice quality interior, a powerful NA V8 and very cool but the reviews that I have read/seen have been mixed. A great all-rounder but a bit light on torque and overly firm in the ride department by all accounts.
W204 C63 AMG
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Pre-facelift cars start from below 20k, which seems like great value. Something about this gen AMG just looks so right in both saloon and estate formats. Personally, I would favour the estate for the practicality and the 2011/2012 facelift brings with it a much nicer interior. With that stunning naturally-aspirated 6.2 litre V8 engine and the fact that it was AMG's biggest V8 engine in their smallest car, surely this has to be a surefire future classic and values will firm up if not appreciate slightly in the very near future?
F10 BMW M5
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
I'm not sure if this will go down as a classic like previous M5s but it's still an amazingly fast and capable car and for what was an 80k+ car new, seems amazingly cheap right now. I would prefer an estate for the practicality but being a size up from the RS4/C63, it would probably be just fine in terms of cabin/boot space.
Option C
The "sensible" option. A nearly new six-pot diesel version of any of the above. Still fast and capable of being fun. 80% of the car but 50% of the running costs and still the peace of mind of some factory warranty. Plus you could get the 535d as a Touring, which is probably a more practical family car than the M5 saloon.
There is also possibly one other option that fits somewhere in between Option B and Option C.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
So if you had 30k to spend on a family car would you go for one of the excellent but smaller new performance cars (Option A), follow the "high performance" family car dream thanks to some savage depreciation and take your chances (Option B) or plump for the "sensible" nearly new option and avoid bankrupting yourself with the running costs (Option C)?
So, if you had two children (and possibly a dog) and needed a four door "family" car that was practical for daily duties but still offered up driving enjoyment when you wanted it, which option would you take for 30k?
Option A
A new/nearly new mid-size hot hatch. You know the kind of thing. Civic Type R, Peugeot 308 GTi, SEAT Leon Cupra, Golf GTI/R, Focus RS, M140i, new Renaultsport Megane might be decent. These would all be fast and pretty good fun with the comfort of manageable running costs but depreciation would be quite heavy and space could be a little marginal for a family of four.
Option B
Go up a level in terms of performance, space and desirability and go for a high performance saloon/estate that has done its biggest chunk of depreciation. You can pretty much guarantee low to mid-20s mpg but running costs are a little more uncertain. Are these options all just as potentially ruinous? Being previous-gen cars, is the risk of still being targeted by thieving scrotes/carjackers still high (this and the price would put me off owning a current gen version of the vehicles below)? Possible contenders could be:
B8 RS4 Avant
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Good-looking, nice quality interior, a powerful NA V8 and very cool but the reviews that I have read/seen have been mixed. A great all-rounder but a bit light on torque and overly firm in the ride department by all accounts.
W204 C63 AMG
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Pre-facelift cars start from below 20k, which seems like great value. Something about this gen AMG just looks so right in both saloon and estate formats. Personally, I would favour the estate for the practicality and the 2011/2012 facelift brings with it a much nicer interior. With that stunning naturally-aspirated 6.2 litre V8 engine and the fact that it was AMG's biggest V8 engine in their smallest car, surely this has to be a surefire future classic and values will firm up if not appreciate slightly in the very near future?
F10 BMW M5
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
I'm not sure if this will go down as a classic like previous M5s but it's still an amazingly fast and capable car and for what was an 80k+ car new, seems amazingly cheap right now. I would prefer an estate for the practicality but being a size up from the RS4/C63, it would probably be just fine in terms of cabin/boot space.
Option C
The "sensible" option. A nearly new six-pot diesel version of any of the above. Still fast and capable of being fun. 80% of the car but 50% of the running costs and still the peace of mind of some factory warranty. Plus you could get the 535d as a Touring, which is probably a more practical family car than the M5 saloon.
There is also possibly one other option that fits somewhere in between Option B and Option C.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
So if you had 30k to spend on a family car would you go for one of the excellent but smaller new performance cars (Option A), follow the "high performance" family car dream thanks to some savage depreciation and take your chances (Option B) or plump for the "sensible" nearly new option and avoid bankrupting yourself with the running costs (Option C)?
Edited by white_goodman on Thursday 14th December 05:26
I have also been considering this. In my case I'm thinking
category 1: C63/Quattroporte, (mint) E39 M5, B8 RS4, E92 M3 etc
vs
category 2: Hyundai i30N or civic type R. Both of which really appeal to me
I am leaning towards the latter both from fun factor and every day usability, as well as running costs, although I appreciate the depreciation factor will be much higher for the former category.
All things considered, I think cost of category 1 and 2 over a 2 year period will be similar.
category 1: C63/Quattroporte, (mint) E39 M5, B8 RS4, E92 M3 etc
vs
category 2: Hyundai i30N or civic type R. Both of which really appeal to me
I am leaning towards the latter both from fun factor and every day usability, as well as running costs, although I appreciate the depreciation factor will be much higher for the former category.
All things considered, I think cost of category 1 and 2 over a 2 year period will be similar.
I got an Amg for £30K some years ago thinking it would be a good car to cover all bases,
I enjoyed the ownership experience, but found it to be an expensive lesson when compared to the ownership costs of a typical hot hatch.
It was approx 3 years old when I got it so should have already suffered the majority of its depreciation, and it had less than 20,000 miles on the clock, yet In the 4 years I had it the value still dropped loads,
the average cost of a service was between £500 - £1000 due to needing various things inc new disks and pads every other service,
tyres never lasted more than about 8 months, it averaged about 17/18 mpg and never got above 25mpg even on a run and things seemed to go wrong on a regular basis meaning multiple trips to the dealers, mostly at my expense.
Given my experience, I would definitely go with one of the latest crop of hot/hyper hatches nowadays,
the difference in performance isn't that great in the real world, you get all the latest kit and a nice long warranty,
the deprecition may be a bit higher compared to a used super saloon, but when adding in the running costs which will be very low on a new hot hatch, the cost of ownership will almost certainly be much less,
In the time I owned my Amg, just taking into consideration depreciation, servicing, tyres and repair costs and not including things like petrol and insurance it cost me somewhere between £35-£40k,
if I got a new golf R and just gave it away after 4 years I wouldn't be any worse off
I wouldn't try and put anyone off getting an M5/RS4/AMG etc, they're great cars, but don't try and kid yourselves they'll be cheap to run just because someone else suffered most of the depreciation and they're now more affordable to buy.
timberman said:
I got an Amg for £30K some years ago thinking it would be a good car to cover all bases,
I enjoyed the ownership experience, but found it to be an expensive lesson when compared to the ownership costs of a typical hot hatch.
It was approx 3 years old when I got it so should have already suffered the majority of its depreciation, and it had less than 20,000 miles on the clock, yet In the 4 years I had it the value still dropped loads,
the average cost of a service was between £500 - £1000 due to needing various things inc new disks and pads every other service,
tyres never lasted more than about 8 months, it averaged about 17/18 mpg and never got above 25mpg even on a run and things seemed to go wrong on a regular basis meaning multiple trips to the dealers, mostly at my expense.
Given my experience, I would definitely go with one of the latest crop of hot/hyper hatches nowadays,
the difference in performance isn't that great in the real world, you get all the latest kit and a nice long warranty,
the deprecition may be a bit higher compared to a used super saloon, but when adding in the running costs which will be very low on a new hot hatch, the cost of ownership will almost certainly be much less,
In the time I owned my Amg, just taking into consideration depreciation, servicing, tyres and repair costs and not including things like petrol and insurance it cost me somewhere between £35-£40k,
if I got a new golf R and just gave it away after 4 years I wouldn't be any worse off
I wouldn't try and put anyone off getting an M5/RS4/AMG etc, they're great cars, but don't try and kid yourselves they'll be cheap to run just because someone else suffered most of the depreciation and they're now more affordable to buy.
Thanks. That's a very candid response from someone who has actually done it and it looks like that was one of the "cheaper" AMG models! It's good to get past the usual PH swagger of yes, but you could get a lightly used version of car A for the price of a new car B. The 80k car still comes with 80k car running costs. If you've got the money, then there are some great savings to be made and you get to own a performance icon but the real cost of ownership is not the same as a 30k new car.I enjoyed the ownership experience, but found it to be an expensive lesson when compared to the ownership costs of a typical hot hatch.
It was approx 3 years old when I got it so should have already suffered the majority of its depreciation, and it had less than 20,000 miles on the clock, yet In the 4 years I had it the value still dropped loads,
the average cost of a service was between £500 - £1000 due to needing various things inc new disks and pads every other service,
tyres never lasted more than about 8 months, it averaged about 17/18 mpg and never got above 25mpg even on a run and things seemed to go wrong on a regular basis meaning multiple trips to the dealers, mostly at my expense.
Given my experience, I would definitely go with one of the latest crop of hot/hyper hatches nowadays,
the difference in performance isn't that great in the real world, you get all the latest kit and a nice long warranty,
the deprecition may be a bit higher compared to a used super saloon, but when adding in the running costs which will be very low on a new hot hatch, the cost of ownership will almost certainly be much less,
In the time I owned my Amg, just taking into consideration depreciation, servicing, tyres and repair costs and not including things like petrol and insurance it cost me somewhere between £35-£40k,
if I got a new golf R and just gave it away after 4 years I wouldn't be any worse off
I wouldn't try and put anyone off getting an M5/RS4/AMG etc, they're great cars, but don't try and kid yourselves they'll be cheap to run just because someone else suffered most of the depreciation and they're now more affordable to buy.
I really liked the look of the Focus RS but they seem to be blowing up engines on far too regular a basis, so the Golf R/M140i are looking far safer bets but a little smaller than ideal for a family of four. There is a Golf R estate but DSG only...
Option C is looking pretty good right now actually, especially the 340i Touring with the uncertainty surrounding diesels at the moment. Still a very fast car in its own right with a fairly characterful motor and reasonable mpg and running costs.
At that price point depreciation is still a big cost, probably more so than subtle differences in mpg, so I would be considering that as a big factor it can be cheaper to buy a more expensive £30k car that doesn't depreciate than a £20k car that does...
A lot also depends on age you are happy with - go back 10-15 years and you can get a lot of car for your money
A lot also depends on age you are happy with - go back 10-15 years and you can get a lot of car for your money
It you fancy something a little left field then this 280 bhp Skoda Superb could fit the bill. Quick enough and definately big enough. Will suffer from depreciation but cheap running costs (for the amount of performance) and most of the warranty remaining would give piece of mind. Worth considering over a hot hatch.
Sportline 280 4x4
Sportline 280 4x4
I'd buy that B8 every day of the week. I've owned all 3 variants - B5/B7/B8 and regretted selling each of them and still miss each of them. As an every day drivers car just a lovely thing to own and drive. None were especially ruinous to run. Fair enough I did get my B7 down to 4mpg on the autobahn but foot to the floor redlining up to 170 it was worth it - I also got 34 mpg out of it at 56 when I realised how far the next petrol station was...
Depreciation wise its nearer the bottom than the top, b5 and 7 both hit about 15k then started going up again - especially clean non bent examples - by comparison what'd a non m car bmw from 2000 be worth? I picked up up a 99 328i coupe m sport thing for 1500 quid so clearly the RS badge protects a good chunk of the investment over the long term compared to a non halo badged car.
Other than that when the current RS6 hits 30k territory I'll be getting one regardless of stairs domination. An absoloute weapon on the autobahn even in the rain, at 30k vs some mass produced s line pcp special - stuff the running costs it sounds like tom jones having a w
k and worth every penny to enjoy the big beasts before it all goes electric.
Depreciation wise its nearer the bottom than the top, b5 and 7 both hit about 15k then started going up again - especially clean non bent examples - by comparison what'd a non m car bmw from 2000 be worth? I picked up up a 99 328i coupe m sport thing for 1500 quid so clearly the RS badge protects a good chunk of the investment over the long term compared to a non halo badged car.
Other than that when the current RS6 hits 30k territory I'll be getting one regardless of stairs domination. An absoloute weapon on the autobahn even in the rain, at 30k vs some mass produced s line pcp special - stuff the running costs it sounds like tom jones having a w
k and worth every penny to enjoy the big beasts before it all goes electric.Thanks, some very interesting replies and good to hear the endorsement of the B8 RS4. The point re an older M/RS/AMG car depreciating less than a newer non-M/RS/AMG is a very good one when you consider overall ownership running costs but the fact still stands that I have no qualms about running a regular BMW/Audi/Mercedes but the potential running costs aside from fuel and the associated uncertainty that comes with when running an M/RS/AMG car does make me slightly nervous but the RS4, C63 and to a lesser extent the M5 are all cars that I have a strong desire to own and I see them as the next rung up from the most interesting car that I have owned, a "Blobeye" Impreza WRX Wagon. I have single friends who have run M3s/RS4s and know of a guy in the village who runs a C63 AMG as his daily drive but lives in a very modest house. I admire him greatly for running that car as his daily but I'm not sure if I'm prepared to make the same sacrifices to run a car like that as my daily drive i.e. I'm sorry kids, we can't go on holiday this year, the AMG needs a service!
Thanks for the suggestion of the Superb. Looks like a great car and I'm always open to alternative suggestions but I'm not sure if it's quite what I'm after i.e. the 30k hot hatches are a bit sportier and more focussed, the M/RS/AMG cars have more "special" engines, as does the 340i and the "sensible" diesel options would all be more economical!
Quattroporte is gorgeous but a potentially very expensive car to run as a DD. I expect the running costs are in another league again compared to the M5/RS4/C63!
Thanks for the suggestion of the Superb. Looks like a great car and I'm always open to alternative suggestions but I'm not sure if it's quite what I'm after i.e. the 30k hot hatches are a bit sportier and more focussed, the M/RS/AMG cars have more "special" engines, as does the 340i and the "sensible" diesel options would all be more economical!
Quattroporte is gorgeous but a potentially very expensive car to run as a DD. I expect the running costs are in another league again compared to the M5/RS4/C63!
Edited by white_goodman on Monday 18th December 18:32
richatnort said:
I'm thinking the same as you at the moment and the 3 cars on my list are 340i touring like you said, b8/b9 S4, Skoda Octavia VRS. All are performance cars but I don't think come with the M, amg, RS brand.
Good shout on the S4 Avant. Not as cool as an RS4 and looks a bit S-liney but probably significantly cheaper to buy/run than an RS4. B8 S4, V6 supercharged and B9 S4, same engine as RS4 but less power? Are they down as low as 30k yet though? Octavia vRS is a good car but personally, I'm kind of bored with FWD, I prefer a rear-biased feel, so either RWD or rear-biased AWD.white_goodman said:
richatnort said:
I'm thinking the same as you at the moment and the 3 cars on my list are 340i touring like you said, b8/b9 S4, Skoda Octavia VRS. All are performance cars but I don't think come with the M, amg, RS brand.
Good shout on the S4 Avant. Not as cool as an RS4 and looks a bit S-liney but probably significantly cheaper to buy/run than an RS4. B8 S4, V6 supercharged and B9 S4, same engine as RS4 but less power? Are they down as low as 30k yet though? Octavia vRS is a good car but personally, I'm kind of bored with FWD, I prefer a rear-biased feel, so either RWD or rear-biased AWD.I think Mr Harris's review of him tuning his with revo stage 1 and then drag racing it against an RS4 and staying side by side with it probably why the price stayed up because people saw you can have RS performance for S price.
For a 30k family/sporty motor I'd be looking at the following.
Golf R estate
New Civic type R
Maybe the Focus RS, although I hadn,t heard about engine problems.
Focus ST estate if you wasn't bothered about going quite as quick.
The older higher end cars you've mentioned would be great if you have luck on your side, but they have the potential for eye watering repair bills.
Or, get a two grand family shed like I have and get something proper sporty just for your self, many Lotus' are holding their value very nicely.
Or get a mint VX220 turbo for 15 to 18k.
Golf R estate
New Civic type R
Maybe the Focus RS, although I hadn,t heard about engine problems.
Focus ST estate if you wasn't bothered about going quite as quick.
The older higher end cars you've mentioned would be great if you have luck on your side, but they have the potential for eye watering repair bills.
Or, get a two grand family shed like I have and get something proper sporty just for your self, many Lotus' are holding their value very nicely.
Or get a mint VX220 turbo for 15 to 18k.
richatnort said:
Yipper said:
Golf R Estate. Usable in all weathers. Plenty of space. Quick remap and it'll do 60 in ~3.6secs and ~175mph.
But sounds dull and no low level sound. I've been re-evaluating this a bit over the last few days. The general consensus seems to be that for the same price, the new hot hatch will be significantly the most cost-effective option over 3 years, even taking into account depreciation (not such an issue if I find a good lease/PCP deal on one of these cars).
However, perhaps I could spend a bit less and get something a bit more special to offset the higher running costs? Thinking about it, I was mostly single throughout my 20s and upgraded my car fairly regularly. Ten years ago, I was working as a salesman at a VW dealership, so I was a bit of a VW fanboy. The car of the moment was the mk5 Golf GTI and R32 and had I not moved to Manchester with my girlfriend (now wife) and retrained for a different career, the plan would have been to get my own GTI/R32. I never did get one. Marriage, a house and kids got in the way and I did consider a mk4 R32 at one time but couldn't ignore that a similar age and mileage Impreza WRX was about 50% cheaper! I had lots of mk5 Golfs as company cars (mainly TDIs and one GTI) but the R32 was probably the "daddy" back then! People say they're not that quick and a little overrated but they felt a bit more grown up than the GTI at the time and the noise and extra traction were certainly of benefit, as the GTI could struggle to put its power down in the wet. Old cars now but I still have a bit of a hankering for a mk5 R32 5 door (DSG with leather) and I like the original wheels best, even if they look like a pain to clean! Something bit like this maybe but ideally I would have a blue one!
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
The new Golf R looks like a great car and all that, faster, better on fuel and I've always liked Golfs but I don't have as much want for one as a mk5 R32!
Had I got the R32 back then, then my next car after that would probably have been a manual E90/E92 M3 (and then a 981 Cayman S but that only has two seats and is well out of my price range, so not really relevant to this thread). An E90 M3 might be an option for c.20k though? The only thing that has put me off more recently is the prodigious thirst and that people say the relative lack of torque can be a bit frustrating on a daily basis. It's probably worse on fuel than the RS4 and M5 but maybe comparable to the C63? I really didn't like the F80 M3 at first because I thought that the engine wasn't as special but I'm warming to it now, as I can see that it would be a better-rounded and more affordable to run day-to-day proposition.
Shame all the saloons for sale at the moment are a bit monochrome though.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
So, is a cheaper but slightly more special car more comparable and sensible in terms of running costs to a new hot hatch (in terms of a slush fund/lower payment compared to a new/nearly new 30k car) or are these two cars risky buys at this age?
However, perhaps I could spend a bit less and get something a bit more special to offset the higher running costs? Thinking about it, I was mostly single throughout my 20s and upgraded my car fairly regularly. Ten years ago, I was working as a salesman at a VW dealership, so I was a bit of a VW fanboy. The car of the moment was the mk5 Golf GTI and R32 and had I not moved to Manchester with my girlfriend (now wife) and retrained for a different career, the plan would have been to get my own GTI/R32. I never did get one. Marriage, a house and kids got in the way and I did consider a mk4 R32 at one time but couldn't ignore that a similar age and mileage Impreza WRX was about 50% cheaper! I had lots of mk5 Golfs as company cars (mainly TDIs and one GTI) but the R32 was probably the "daddy" back then! People say they're not that quick and a little overrated but they felt a bit more grown up than the GTI at the time and the noise and extra traction were certainly of benefit, as the GTI could struggle to put its power down in the wet. Old cars now but I still have a bit of a hankering for a mk5 R32 5 door (DSG with leather) and I like the original wheels best, even if they look like a pain to clean! Something bit like this maybe but ideally I would have a blue one!
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
The new Golf R looks like a great car and all that, faster, better on fuel and I've always liked Golfs but I don't have as much want for one as a mk5 R32!
Had I got the R32 back then, then my next car after that would probably have been a manual E90/E92 M3 (and then a 981 Cayman S but that only has two seats and is well out of my price range, so not really relevant to this thread). An E90 M3 might be an option for c.20k though? The only thing that has put me off more recently is the prodigious thirst and that people say the relative lack of torque can be a bit frustrating on a daily basis. It's probably worse on fuel than the RS4 and M5 but maybe comparable to the C63? I really didn't like the F80 M3 at first because I thought that the engine wasn't as special but I'm warming to it now, as I can see that it would be a better-rounded and more affordable to run day-to-day proposition.
Shame all the saloons for sale at the moment are a bit monochrome though.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
So, is a cheaper but slightly more special car more comparable and sensible in terms of running costs to a new hot hatch (in terms of a slush fund/lower payment compared to a new/nearly new 30k car) or are these two cars risky buys at this age?
richatnort said:
Just to add I saw a 340i parked up near I live and it looked really nice IMHO and luckily the guy moved off as I was walking off and it drove past me and sounded lovely too. I'd be tempted to try one before you disregard them.
Oh believe me, it's still up there. Right size, estate, still fast enough and engine still special enough and reasonable running costs. M3 aside, it's a nicer looking car both outside and in than the E9x 3-Series as well. Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff