911 997 vs. TVR t350 vs. Z4M vs. AM vantage

[The Green Triangle]

Warning mid life crisis approaching.
Ok so I'm looking to purchase something special over the next year. I'm sure these comparison s have been done to death, but...

2nd car kept garaged.
Price 25-30k plus a bit for something really special hence AM territory.
Manual
Minimal mileage
Fun factor
Rare factor
Needs to keep value/ideally increase in value 5 10 yr horizon

Have been considering the 911 carrera 2s, but compared to the tvr, wouldn't it be a bit boring? Would a Trevor be reliable enough/screwed together well enough? Certainly both would be an event, but is the Porsche sedate in comparison?

Are z4m's special enough? Certainly it ticks rare box and fun box.

The AMv8 it's a very pretty car, but could it ruin me in terms of servicing? Are they robust?

What else am I missing? Not a fan of lotus. GTR is a possibility but to keep to manual would have to be r32 or 3. I think the 35 is out of reach regardless.

Finally I know a test drive in all would be ideal. Anyone got any recommendations where could these comparisons be done under one roof? Ideally bucks Herts beds. Perhaps a driving day?

Cheers GT

[davek_964]

In my experience, modern 911s are a little anodyne and not fun. There will be plenty of people who disagree - but I am definitely not the only person who thinks so. They are capable, but "fun" isn't a word I'd use to describe them.

Then again, neither is an AM Vantage. A fantastic car but definitely GT - and it is enjoyable to drive for many reasons, but not really "fun" as such - at least, not like a TVR would be.

In my experience, the AM Vantage is no less reliable (and no more expensive to run) than a 911. They can have some nasty costs (front lights, clutch) but overall they are no worse.
If you want an owner experience of a Vantage over several years, I have been documenting mine (and by coincidence updated it today) :

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[The Green Triangle]

Thanks I'll definitely head over and take a look at your vantage write-up.

95% of my journeys are going to be short Sunday morning blasts, so I'm definitely in the fun category rather than gt which gives weight to the tvr.

I guess a more extreme option could be an Ultima...hmmm not sure the mrs would condone that tho. I think an Ultima while increddibly fun is going to be too extreme.

[Johnny 89]

If an Ultima is too extreme then perhaps a Noble? It isn't often you get the say it is the less extreme car!

Would you consider anything else from the TVR stable? My choice would be a Tuscan. Can you get a mk II?

I would love an AM Vantage but I already have the fun cars.

[The Green Triangle]

I would't discount a noble. I like the looks and its certainly got the rarity factor.

As for Tuscan, don't think I could quite stretch to the 2. I prefer the t350, it's smaller footprint and headlights, although I do have fond memories of modifying and racing a black tuscan with black wheels in gran turismo growing up, that was a great car at least in the virtual world.

I need to drive some of these cars to really get a feel for them. I'm certainly not discounting the 911 and vantage, as with all these cars, they will be driven on the road and besides I'm an 8 /10ths driver rather than anything else, so it's got to be the whole package considered.

Certainly it's got to look as good as it goes...so no caterhams for me

[ZX10R NIN]

I'd say drive the Noble & try the Evora before discounting them.

[Phil Dicky]

TVRs are all shooting up in value and £25-£30k will find you at the bottom of the market for a T350.....but the prices for last few years are only going one way.

[The Green Triangle]

ZX10R NIN said:

I'd say drive the Noble & try the Evora before discounting them.

Noble yes, but Ive never liked the front of the Evora. If I was going to be tempted by lotus it would be the exige or Elise. But for me they don't quite make my short list. Fantastic cars im sure, but I want the engine as well as the handling and looks. It's got to have a bit of soul I guess.

[The Green Triangle]

Phil Dicky said:

TVRs are all shooting up in value and £25-£30k will find you at the bottom of the market for a T350.....but the prices for last few years are only going one way.

There seem to be a few t350s in the 30-33k bracket which If it was the right car, I'd be comfortable with. I suppose my heart is saying tvr but my head is saying be sensible and buy something German. There is always the Aston...

I think if I went to view and drive the Amv8 It would almost be a done deal on looks alone. God it's a beauty...

[67Dino]

Agree with what’s been said about 911 and AMV8. Both wonderful cars in their own right, but not especially exciting at road legal speeds. Or put another way, they would make a commute more enjoyable, but probably not one you’d drive just for the sake of it.

How about a classic? For that kind of money you’d get an excellent TR6. Or a Lotus Esprit. Or a Bentley Mulsanne. All would be a hoot I should think.

[TVRJAS]

The Green Triangle said:

95% of my journeys are going to be short Sunday morning blasts, so I'm definitely in the fun category rather than gt which gives weight to the tvr.

This is no good for a T350 (Speed six engine) I've got a T350t and they can take 20 mins just to warm up,this time of year even longer.

A place near Herts would be Bespoke Performance and can highly recommend them as it's where mine came from.

[Olivera]

911 I would completely rule out unless you could get a 997.2, the engines are far too chocolate on earlier cars.

TVR 350 I would also rule out unless you are prepared to do some spannering yourself, or have a specialist close by. Could be a good and exciting choice though if you do.

Z4M is a good all round choice, although it's pretty cramped inside and doesn't ride particularly well.

V8 Vantage looks fantastic, solid mechanicals, but by many people's accounts isn't that fast (4.3 model). Not surprising when you work out the power to weight ratio.

[The Green Triangle]

67Dino said:

Agree with what’s been said about 911 and AMV8. Both wonderful cars in their own right, but not especially exciting at road legal speeds. Or put another way, they would make a commute more enjoyable, but probably not one you’d drive just for the sake of it.

How about a classic? For that kind of money you’d get an excellent TR6. Or a Lotus Esprit. Or a Bentley Mulsanne. All would be a hoot I should think.

Im getting the impression the Porsche and Aston could be a bit sedate then for the special factor. I wouldn't be averse to putting on some subtle mods to make them a little more theatrical... What does the 3.8s sound like with sports cats and free flow exhaust for example.

Ah a classic, yes I have considered this too. Saw a really nice Alfa junior last year for about 25k. But definitely not a Bentley. I don't think the garage is big enough!

[The Green Triangle]

TVRJAS said:

This is no good for a T350 (Speed six engine) I've got a T350t and they can take 20 mins just to warm up,this time of year even longer.

A place near Herts would be Bespoke Performance and can highly recommend them as it's where mine came from.

I'd warm her up properly don't worry. The 20 minutes tho. is sedate driving right? Not just idling on the drive/garage?

Bespoke performance... I will go and find their website, cheers.

[TVRJAS]

The Green Triangle said:

I'd warm her up properly don't worry. The 20 minutes tho. is sedate driving right? Not just idling on the drive/garage?

Bespoke performance... I will go and find their website, cheers.

Idling on the drive/garage is not recommended,there's a warming up procedure based on your oil temp. In short it's not above 3k revs till you hit "40" (about 15-20 mins) but temp of 65-70 is needed before you take it to the limit.

[justin220]

The Vantage may not be as special to physically drive as some of the cars mentioned, but it is extremely special to own/ have in the garage, and take out for a run.

I've owned two now and they are rock solid engine wise. Few pricey consumables if you are unlucky, but buy the right one and you'll hopefully be ok.

911 and Z4 aren't special enough for a toy IMO.

I've also owned a T350 and God I loved it. So raw, wonderful sound, scary rather than exciting to drive. My old one is for sale on PH (for double what I sold it for..) would love to have it back

[The Green Triangle]

justin220 said:

The Vantage may not be as special to physically drive as some of the cars mentioned, but it is extremely special to own/ have in the garage, and take out for a run.

I've owned two now and they are rock solid engine wise. Few pricey consumables if you are unlucky, but buy the right one and you'll hopefully be ok.

911 and Z4 aren't special enough for a toy IMO.

I've also owned a T350 and God I loved it. So raw, wonderful sound, scary rather than exciting to drive. My old one is for sale on PH (for double what I sold it for..) would love to have it back

That's interesting you've owned both the Aston and the t350. So you can only keep one forever, which is it then? I think I already know the answer to this one...

But why did you sell it?

Edited by The Green Triangle on Wednesday 31st January 21:35

[davek_964]

The Green Triangle said:

Im getting the impression the Porsche and Aston could be a bit sedate then for the special factor.

The problem with the Aston is not that it's slow - it's really not (although there are obviously faster cars) - but it feeeeeeels slow! When you look down at the speedo, it builds speed pretty quickly - but the power delivery is such that it never feels like it is.

With the Porsche, the lack of "fun" isn't really about speed. My (mapped) 996 turbo was very quick. Still pretty dull most of the time though.

[johnnyBv8]

At £25-30k budget I would discount the Vantage. I have a Vantage 4.7, but at £25-30k you'd be looking at very high mileage and/or needing work, or a Cat C/D. The entry point to a Vantage is at least £30k; they seemed to bottom out at this about 5 years ago, and at that price you may have some pending costs. If you could stretch slightly further, they're great cars, and to answer your question: very robust.

I'd probably go T350 for the rarity value, if you can find a good one - beautiful cars. If you're just looking for competence, I'd go 997.

[justin220]

The Green Triangle said:

That's interesting you've owned both the Aston and the t350. So you can only keep one forever, which is it then? I think I already know the answer to this one...

But why did you sell it?

Edited by The Green Triangle on Wednesday 31st January 21:35

Interesting question. When I had the T350 I was changing cars every year or so, these days not so much. I sold it with the intention of upgrading to a Sagaris, but when the time came I just could justify double the cost for what was a very similar car. Regretted selling it ever since. The other odd justification I had was, I'd just done the big service, and replaced all brakes and fitted coilovers all round. So it was as good as it was going to get, and seemed a good time to sell.

I failed the noise test at the Nurburgring in it it was a proper event. Genuine pops and bangs, none of this fabricated ones!

The Vantage is a very different car. It's more relaxed, more subtle, easier to live with. More of a GT and all rounder.

I've had an Evora in between the two, and think it's probably better than both. The only reason I went Evora - Vantage was Lotus offered me a really poor trade in against an Evora S. Ashame really!