Espace 3 - are they awful?

[cj2013]

I would ask in a Renault-focused environment, but it's not exactly going to be unbiased.

Background blurb
Basically I've spent most of my life sneering at the thought of buying an enormous vehicle for when the tiniest of extra people get added to the family. Despite the Mav having a lot of comfort and space, it's been apparent that even tiny babies need a lot of equipment.

Worse so now she's coming up to one, where you need to cart not only the pushchair, but also a travel cot, walker, toys, play pen, box of misc baby stuff (clothes, food, nappies, etc) on weekends away. We've had two trips recently where the back has been full to bursting, and then our bags have been filling up whatever space is left. It means that you can't really take extra people with you in the car, and I don't really like the idea of a roofbox.

Anyway, justification over, I thought to myself "Why don't I get something with loads of space, that is kind of cool-looking (in my odd opinion), and yet is old enough to be rare/interesting

Before the Mav, I was tempted for a long time by a Multipla (first shape), just because they are so ugly they are kind of beautiful to look at now, and the fact that they are interesting. The problem I found was finding one that wasn't absolutely battered and purple/blue (as they tend to look forgiveable in the more uncommon colours/black). Being a FIAT the spec is also diabolical, and the synchromesh made out of polystyrene.


So yes you get the usual Alhambra/Sharan/Galaxy option, but I'm not mad keen on VWs - especially old ones that you want to not be awful. My attention has turned to the Espace, but specifically the mk3 of the late 90's early 00's vintage, before the renault build quality really went out to impress no-one.

TLDR
So, is the Espace III actually much craic? I've read some really good things about the drive, styling and comfort....but I've also read utterings that suggest that they can be awful, too.

As far as I can tell, the 3.0 V6 needs to have the engine removed in order to carry out the required timing belt change (and I've head suggestions this might be the same for all engines), and the 2.2 Diesel is fickle as to whether it wants to lunch itself.

The timing belt thing is going to be important, as it's less likely you'll pick up and oldy that will have had one done recently. I'm more than capable on the spanners, but obviously things get a bit more difficult if the whole job is Alfa-Romeo-esq (multiple expensive parts with special tools required).



Any experience of these? Thanks in advance.

[ZX10R NIN]

Don't do it if the belt issue doesn't get you the costly window regulators will, look for a Mazda5.

[hashtag]

cj2013 said:

I would ask in a Renault-focused environment, but it's not exactly going to be unbiased.

Background blurb
Basically I've spent most of my life sneering at the thought of buying an enormous vehicle for when the tiniest of extra people get added to the family. Despite the Mav having a lot of comfort and space, it's been apparent that even tiny babies need a lot of equipment.

Worse so now she's coming up to one, where you need to cart not only the pushchair, but also a travel cot, walker, toys, play pen, box of misc baby stuff (clothes, food, nappies, etc) on weekends away. We've had two trips recently where the back has been full to bursting, and then our bags have been filling up whatever space is left. It means that you can't really take extra people with you in the car, and I don't really like the idea of a roofbox.

Anyway, justification over, I thought to myself "Why don't I get something with loads of space, that is kind of cool-looking (in my odd opinion), and yet is old enough to be rare/interesting

Before the Mav, I was tempted for a long time by a Multipla (first shape), just because they are so ugly they are kind of beautiful to look at now, and the fact that they are interesting. The problem I found was finding one that wasn't absolutely battered and purple/blue (as they tend to look forgiveable in the more uncommon colours/black). Being a FIAT the spec is also diabolical, and the synchromesh made out of polystyrene.


So yes you get the usual Alhambra/Sharan/Galaxy option, but I'm not mad keen on VWs - especially old ones that you want to not be awful. My attention has turned to the Espace, but specifically the mk3 of the late 90's early 00's vintage, before the renault build quality really went out to impress no-one.

TLDR
So, is the Espace III actually much craic? I've read some really good things about the drive, styling and comfort....but I've also read utterings that suggest that they can be awful, too.

As far as I can tell, the 3.0 V6 needs to have the engine removed in order to carry out the required timing belt change (and I've head suggestions this might be the same for all engines), and the 2.2 Diesel is fickle as to whether it wants to lunch itself.

The timing belt thing is going to be important, as it's less likely you'll pick up and oldy that will have had one done recently. I'm more than capable on the spanners, but obviously things get a bit more difficult if the whole job is Alfa-Romeo-esq (multiple expensive parts with special tools required).


I had a 3.0lt V6 diesel, it was very very thirsty. Under 20 mpg. Kept it for 3 months.

Did not like it at all



Any experience of these? Thanks in advance.

[aaron_2000]

Why not one of these? Better than the Renault in every way

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Or better still:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

[cj2013]

ZX10R NIN said:

Don't do it if the belt issue doesn't get you the costly window regulators will, look for a Mazda5.

Mazda 5 is an interesting option, but I don't think the mk3 suffers from the regulators - thats the 2000 onwards Renault models.

aaron_2000 said:

Why not one of these? Better than the Renault in every way

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Or better still:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Problem is, I don't want to spend £7k on a car, not least quite a common one. The appeal of the older Espace is that they are relatively uncommon now, as well as being much simpler in terms of electronic issues, and I quite like the looks of it. The non-metal bodywork also appeals.


Sliding doors are an advantage, but it's hard to find something that has everything (space, comfort etc.). It's more of a "what is the mk3 Espace like" rather than a "whats the alternative", only because it's currently where my mind is at

[edthedead]

I think there might be a reason there aren't many left on the road...

[cj2013]

edthedead said:

I think there might be a reason there aren't many left on the road...

Because they didn't really sell many in the first place.

Beyond that, they aren't really anything that meets the "worth spending money on" criteria (unlike cars which are always potentially someone's first car, or a track car, etc.). That means they end up with families who can't afford to do the maintenance and they get scrapped.


The Renault 19 was a great car, and I loved mine, but they suffered the same fate. Even the 16v is down to less than 50 taxed, from around 9k in 2001.

[Jag_NE]

i think you like the idea of running something a little less ordinary, which is good. id just be prepared to spend on average at least 2k a year keeping it roadworthy. if that sounds like good value for the quirky factor, fill your boots.

[cj2013]

Jag_NE said:

i think you like the idea of running something a little less ordinary, which is good. id just be prepared to spend on average at least 2k a year keeping it roadworthy. if that sounds like good value for the quirky factor, fill your boots.

Just over a year ago I was consistently spending £300 a month on the Porsche, so it wouldn't be out of the norm.

The Mav lunches coil packs for fun, I've done 3 now (averaging one every 1000 miles). If I didn't do this kind of thing myself, I'd have spent 10 times as much. That's just 'old' car ownership for you, and the cost of being different.


My curiosity is more about what is the reality of the problems - i.e. if anyone actually has first hand experience of whether they are awful or half decent.

[Jag_NE]

cj2013 said:

Just over a year ago I was consistently spending £300 a month on the Porsche, so it wouldn't be out of the norm.

The Mav lunches coil packs for fun, I've done 3 now (averaging one every 1000 miles). If I didn't do this kind of thing myself, I'd have spent 10 times as much. That's just 'old' car ownership for you, and the cost of being different.


My curiosity is more about what is the reality of the problems - i.e. if anyone actually has first hand experience of whether they are awful or half decent.

whats a mav out of interest?

id give a dedicated renault forum a shoot if you want a range of fact based data points. i had a 2007 laguna which was very decent reliability wise, 1.9dCi, it was 4 years old when i got it and i got shot 3 years later. my logic at the time was that renaults reputation meant that i could have a laguna for half the price of a same vintage passat and i would be very unlucky to spend the difference on repairs over the next few years, the punt paid off. with a 15+ year old espace its going to be a total lottery!

[ZX10R NIN]

Mazda5

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Espace

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Peugeot 807 (if you like alternate options these tick that box)

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

C8

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

[cj2013]

Jag_NE said:

whats a mav out of interest?

Ford Maverick. I've got a very late one that is ex-Ford staff. It's the UK version of the USA's 'Escape' and looks like this:



V6 3.0 column shift auto - the same as in the Mondeo

Jag_NE said:

id give a dedicated renault forum a shoot if you want a range of fact based data points. i had a 2007 laguna which was very decent reliability wise, 1.9dCi, it was 4 years old when i got it and i got shot 3 years later. my logic at the time was that renaults reputation meant that i could have a laguna for half the price of a same vintage passat and i would be very unlucky to spend the difference on repairs over the next few years, the punt paid off. with a 15+ year old espace its going to be a total lottery!

They seem to be pretty dead. Page 2 of the Espace section was back to posts from 2010, for example.

I had a Laguna Mk2 a fair few years ago. Nice drive, but it a lot went wrong on it. The 90's Renaults seemed to be much better than the later vintage

[cj2013]

ZX10R NIN said:

Mazda5

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Espace

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Peugeot 807 (if you like alternate options these tick that box)

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

C8

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Thanks for putting the time in, but as per the original post, I'm only looking at the older Espace:

cj2013 said:

My attention has turned to the Espace, but specifically the mk3 of the late 90's early 00's vintage, before the renault build quality really went out to impress no-one.

[MorganP104]

Considering how cheap these massive French buses are, I'd be tempted to skip the MkIII, and go straight to the MkIV.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

How bad could it be?

(Rhetorical question - it's large, and it's French! )

[ZX10R NIN]

No problem I know you were looking for a MK3 but the Mk4 looks very tempting.

[Jag_NE]

MorganP104 said:

Considering how cheap these massive French buses are, I'd be tempted to skip the MkIII, and go straight to the MkIV.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

How bad could it be?

(Rhetorical question - it's large, and it's French! )

I think the OP is holding our for someone to turn up and say they are bullet proof! To be frank, I think anything 15 years old and reasonably large and complex stands a good chance of being a complete money pit regardless of who made it. I’d buy a sufficiently cheap one to scratch the itch so that if you need to bin it, its not the end of the world.

[aaron_2000]

cj2013 said:

Problem is, I don't want to spend £7k on a car, not least quite a common one. The appeal of the older Espace is that they are relatively uncommon now, as well as being much simpler in terms of electronic issues, and I quite like the looks of it. The non-metal bodywork also appeals.


Sliding doors are an advantage, but it's hard to find something that has everything (space, comfort etc.). It's more of a "what is the mk3 Espace like" rather than a "whats the alternative", only because it's currently where my mind is at

I can respect wanting something rarer, from what I know the 3.0 V6 can be quite high maintenance but in return gives you absolute smoothness. As others have said, just be prepared for unexpected bills, other than that I imagine it'll be a really good car for the class and for the money.

[cj2013]

MorganP104 said:

Considering how cheap these massive French buses are, I'd be tempted to skip the MkIII, and go straight to the MkIV.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

How bad could it be?

(Rhetorical question - it's large, and it's French! )

ZX10R NIN said:

No problem I know you were looking for a MK3 but the Mk4 looks very tempting.

The problem with the MK4 is that is (from my knowledge, and happy to be corrected) strays into very "reason you don't want Renault" territory:

- The design changes mean bulb changes require boneless limbs
- The keys are replace with keycards, which is another category of woe
- They are very much in the rusty-steel-window-regulator-snapping design window

and also

- Potentially more expensive tax rates on most engine sizes, compared to earlier models (due to VED banding)
- More common, so loses the vague "don't see many of them around" appeal.

[cj2013]

Jag_NE said:

I think the OP is holding our for someone to turn up and say they are bullet proof! To be frank, I think anything 15 years old and reasonably large and complex stands a good chance of being a complete money pit regardless of who made it. I’d buy a sufficiently cheap one to scratch the itch so that if you need to bin it, its not the end of the world.

Not at all - just holding out for someone to actually tell me something about owning one. My main concerns are what the 'common' issues are - every car has some, but the only thing I can find reference to on these is that the 2.2DCi is terrible.

As per the original post, I wanted an idea of cambelt-type servicing - I've read two differing bits of info suggesting that it's an engine out job, and also that it's quite straightforward to do in the car. As far as I can read, there are no signs of major weaknesses, and any failure is likely to be due to lack of maintenance, but it'd be useful to get that confirmed by someone who's owned one for a while (now or in the past).


You're correct about the 'buy cheap enough to throw away' of course - you just have to try and weigh up the odds of what you're dealing with, mostly so you know where or what issues to gamble on.

[CJG1]

Hope this helps but when I was younger my parents had a 2004 Espace 2.2DCI when we were living in France. Owned it from 2007-2014 or from 50,000km to 210,000km.

In that time it went though one Turbo, and a Rocker Cover (or something along those lines!) Oh a gearbox too!

It also had its fair few French car electrics issues, the Sunroof had a mind of its own, Electronic Handbrake was temperamental, wouldn’t start on a few occasions with immobiliser issues.

Appart from that it was a GREAT car. We did 5 trips across France, used to go up the Pyrenees skiing every month, and it didn’t let us down once. Was the most comfortable car ever too.

Parents sold it to some friends back in 2014 when we came back to the UK. Last month they posted it on Facebook for €900 with a shot Turbo (Again!)