Buying Dilemma, all over again...
Discussion
Last summer, my old BMW 330Ci Coupe came to the end of its useful commuting life, as it was going to take 4x its value to get through an MOT. I kept it and have managed to get it through an MOT, but it still needs things doing and no matter what, it needs an engine-full of oil every 1500-2000 miles.
As I couldn't get it through an MOT in time and I wanted something with real performance, I began looking for a replacement. Initially, I was considering an E92 V8 M3, and despite it really being above my budget, I'd been drooling over a new Ford Mustang GT. But a friend in the know suggested that I should really be buying a proper sports car, such as a Porsche 911. After test driving various 997.2 cars in C2, C4 and C4S configurations, I was struggling with the idea of paying around £40k for a car with 50k miles on the clock, but I liked the way they went. The dealer I visited suggested I try their Cayman R, which felt quicker and much more agile than the 911s, but it was still around £40k for a used car, and I wanted to stretch to that figure only for a new car. See original thread:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=16...
To cut a long story short, I ended up buying a 981 Boxster S, saving myself a hefty wad of cash and giving me a first taste of a convertible, which was lovely to use on a clear day even if it was below 10 degrees C. And it was a manual, that I preferred infinitely over the faster PDK. Why should the car have most of the fun? That felt more modern than any of the 997s or the 987 Cayman R, if not quite as quick. But with 310bhp and all the weight of a pack of crisps, easily the quickest car I've owned. I disliked it at first, rueing the decision to buy a 2-seat car despite not having children. I had nowhere to put my handbag when the passenger seat was full, and the mirrors in the sun visors didn't have any lights, meaning I couldn't check my makeup before arriving somewhere for dinner. And despite having PCM, Bluetooth audio, and phone preparation, it wouldn't connect to my phone. And I made the terrible mistake of buying a car without Bose speakers, meaning that the audio quality made my ears bleed, it was so awful. Otherwise, the car was surprisingly practical, fitting my golf bag (without drivers) in the rear boot and my trolley in the front boot. Over time, the driving dynamics (and that gorgeous sports exhaust) made me fall in love with the car, but my relationship is over - two weeks ago, a dozy taxi driver pulled out of a side road just a few metres in front of my path while I was travelling on a main road, and I slammed into the side of his car at 50 miles per hour. Both drivers are okay (I had some cuts, grazes, and broken ribs to contend with, but I'm walking. As for my beautiful Boxster, she is still awaiting to be assessed by the third party's insurer, but I can be reasonably confident that it's a total loss.
Just look at the photos:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/mFkm812nekyfZSxs2
So right now the Taxi driver's insurer has provided me with a brand new 718 Boxster S loaner. There's thankfully no argument over fault as the police and TRL officers confirmed that at the scene. But I do need to look for a replacement car, and I have several in mind:
- Mustang which I have hankered after for years - it's quick, but probably far too clumsy after driving the Boxster for 6 months. And the fuel bill!
- BMW M4. I test drove a Coupe with a DCT gearbox yesterday, and while it's obviously a very capable car, it felt slow witted. Have I been spoiled by Porsche?
- Alfa Giulia. They look great and I've read some great reviews. But an everyday driver? Will it leave me stranded somewhere?
- Audi RS something? They're undoubtedly quick, but I've heard they can be uninvolving. And expensive at the filling station.
- Aston Martin V8 Vantage. I've always loved their looks, but to get within my budget I need to go for a car from last decade. Is this wise? Are they actually fun to drive? Are they reliable?
- Audi R8. Same as Aston, but I'm sure it's reliable. But Daily? Can I afford to service it?
- Another Porsche. I think I want more performance than my old Boxster, but the 911s I drove (no Turbos or GT3s obviously) didn't feel much quicker, and didn't handle as well. Perhaps a Spyder? But fiddling with a tent? I'm loving the torque and power of the loaner 718 (350bhp), but it sounds like a Subaru with its flat-four turbo.
I want something fast and pointy, and if the M4 can't deliver, what can? I don't want to spend more than £40k max.
Thanks for your ideas!!
As I couldn't get it through an MOT in time and I wanted something with real performance, I began looking for a replacement. Initially, I was considering an E92 V8 M3, and despite it really being above my budget, I'd been drooling over a new Ford Mustang GT. But a friend in the know suggested that I should really be buying a proper sports car, such as a Porsche 911. After test driving various 997.2 cars in C2, C4 and C4S configurations, I was struggling with the idea of paying around £40k for a car with 50k miles on the clock, but I liked the way they went. The dealer I visited suggested I try their Cayman R, which felt quicker and much more agile than the 911s, but it was still around £40k for a used car, and I wanted to stretch to that figure only for a new car. See original thread:
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=16...
To cut a long story short, I ended up buying a 981 Boxster S, saving myself a hefty wad of cash and giving me a first taste of a convertible, which was lovely to use on a clear day even if it was below 10 degrees C. And it was a manual, that I preferred infinitely over the faster PDK. Why should the car have most of the fun? That felt more modern than any of the 997s or the 987 Cayman R, if not quite as quick. But with 310bhp and all the weight of a pack of crisps, easily the quickest car I've owned. I disliked it at first, rueing the decision to buy a 2-seat car despite not having children. I had nowhere to put my handbag when the passenger seat was full, and the mirrors in the sun visors didn't have any lights, meaning I couldn't check my makeup before arriving somewhere for dinner. And despite having PCM, Bluetooth audio, and phone preparation, it wouldn't connect to my phone. And I made the terrible mistake of buying a car without Bose speakers, meaning that the audio quality made my ears bleed, it was so awful. Otherwise, the car was surprisingly practical, fitting my golf bag (without drivers) in the rear boot and my trolley in the front boot. Over time, the driving dynamics (and that gorgeous sports exhaust) made me fall in love with the car, but my relationship is over - two weeks ago, a dozy taxi driver pulled out of a side road just a few metres in front of my path while I was travelling on a main road, and I slammed into the side of his car at 50 miles per hour. Both drivers are okay (I had some cuts, grazes, and broken ribs to contend with, but I'm walking. As for my beautiful Boxster, she is still awaiting to be assessed by the third party's insurer, but I can be reasonably confident that it's a total loss.
Just look at the photos:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/mFkm812nekyfZSxs2
So right now the Taxi driver's insurer has provided me with a brand new 718 Boxster S loaner. There's thankfully no argument over fault as the police and TRL officers confirmed that at the scene. But I do need to look for a replacement car, and I have several in mind:
- Mustang which I have hankered after for years - it's quick, but probably far too clumsy after driving the Boxster for 6 months. And the fuel bill!
- BMW M4. I test drove a Coupe with a DCT gearbox yesterday, and while it's obviously a very capable car, it felt slow witted. Have I been spoiled by Porsche?
- Alfa Giulia. They look great and I've read some great reviews. But an everyday driver? Will it leave me stranded somewhere?
- Audi RS something? They're undoubtedly quick, but I've heard they can be uninvolving. And expensive at the filling station.
- Aston Martin V8 Vantage. I've always loved their looks, but to get within my budget I need to go for a car from last decade. Is this wise? Are they actually fun to drive? Are they reliable?
- Audi R8. Same as Aston, but I'm sure it's reliable. But Daily? Can I afford to service it?
- Another Porsche. I think I want more performance than my old Boxster, but the 911s I drove (no Turbos or GT3s obviously) didn't feel much quicker, and didn't handle as well. Perhaps a Spyder? But fiddling with a tent? I'm loving the torque and power of the loaner 718 (350bhp), but it sounds like a Subaru with its flat-four turbo.
I want something fast and pointy, and if the M4 can't deliver, what can? I don't want to spend more than £40k max.
Thanks for your ideas!!
Edited by LunarOne on Sunday 4th March 20:09
Nice to see you had the roof down at the time of impact.
I've never seen the appeal of the Audi TT, i mean R8, it just felt like a big TT, mind you the biggest scare was coming up the M6 and the low oil level light came on, i'd just collected it from Wales, it took ages to sell too. M4's are ok but to be honest the 435i is cheaper and just as nice.
I would be looking towards a C63, Jaguar XE-S or if your not too bothered about age how about a V6 F Type, the boxster however is a very nice car, the likes of Golf R's and S3's do not compare.
The RS4 is ok the S6 is underated with the V8. You also have the M2 consider. Out of your list i'd take a chance with the Alfa.
I've never seen the appeal of the Audi TT, i mean R8, it just felt like a big TT, mind you the biggest scare was coming up the M6 and the low oil level light came on, i'd just collected it from Wales, it took ages to sell too. M4's are ok but to be honest the 435i is cheaper and just as nice.
I would be looking towards a C63, Jaguar XE-S or if your not too bothered about age how about a V6 F Type, the boxster however is a very nice car, the likes of Golf R's and S3's do not compare.
The RS4 is ok the S6 is underated with the V8. You also have the M2 consider. Out of your list i'd take a chance with the Alfa.
steve-5snwi said:
Nice to see you had the roof down at the time of impact.
Other stuff...
You also have the M2 consider. Out of your list i'd take a chance with the Alfa.
I didn't have the roof down at the time of the impact. After the impact, I could not open the doors, and despite there being about 15 people standing around outside the restaurant, nobody came to help me. After a minute or so in a bit of a daze, I remembered that I was in a convertible, and opened the roof to allow me to get out of the car, Dukes of Hazzard style. In the later daylight photos, I had to again lower the roof by remote control to collect my belongings from the car.Other stuff...
You also have the M2 consider. Out of your list i'd take a chance with the Alfa.
Yes, I thought of the M2 after my post. I had the 330Ci before and always wished I'd plumped for the M3. After I paid for 10k of options in the 330, there wasn't much in it. Which is why I'm not considering the 435 (or 440). And the Alfa is a bit of an unknown. I've only seen one one the road, and it was making very rapid progress at the time!
Any FWD cars are out of the equation. On the few occasions when I've driven a FWD car, I've not liked it. Even in the snow I'm much more comfortable with a drifting rear end than I am with losing traction AND steering. I learnt to drive in an RWD and the only FWD car I've owned was a Volvo 440, which I promptly got rid of in favour of an E36 320i at age 21.
LunarOne said:
Aston Martin V8 Vantage. I've always loved their looks, but to get within my budget I need to go for a car from last decade. Is this wise? Are they actually fun to drive? Are they reliable?
Mine (56 plate, ~40k miles) is perfectly reliable. Obviously things do break / get worn out but I don't find it any worse than the 996 turbo it replaced.However - "fun" might be an issue - it depends what you want out of the car. I love mine, but don't find it really works well down a twisty lane - the way the power is delivered means it never feels like it accelerates out of a bend very hard. Having said that, although it was noticeably faster - I never really felt my 996 turbo scored very highly in the "fun" stakes either.
I certainly wouldn't be worried about reliability - you may get the odd niggle, but I think the reputation of cars like these / Alfa's etc. is a bit undeserved these days. You've only got to do some reading on Porsche M96 engines to find that the "reliable German cars" can have much more serious issues despite being seen as the paragon of reliability.
Lotus Evora? Brilliant cars
I've got a Vantage and agree with the above. It depends what you want from a car. It's a great car to own, but probably not as good to drive as others.
My brother had the V8 mustang and I love it. Great car, but big and heavy. Thirsty. More of a very useable GT car than a sports car.
I've got a Vantage and agree with the above. It depends what you want from a car. It's a great car to own, but probably not as good to drive as others.
My brother had the V8 mustang and I love it. Great car, but big and heavy. Thirsty. More of a very useable GT car than a sports car.
justin220 said:
Lotus Evora? Brilliant cars
I've got a Vantage and agree with the above. It depends what you want from a car. It's a great car to own, but probably not as good to drive as others.
My brother had the V8 mustang and I love it. Great car, but big and heavy. Thirsty. More of a very useable GT car than a sports car.
I have to drive my 82-year-old mother, who has a long list of complaints including COPD, lung cancer, heart valve problems, brittle bones, and severe anger issues. She hated the Boxster as it was and complained bitterly every time she had to get in or out of it. She wants me to buy a proper car again, by which she means a BMW. I'd never get away with an Evora!I've got a Vantage and agree with the above. It depends what you want from a car. It's a great car to own, but probably not as good to drive as others.
My brother had the V8 mustang and I love it. Great car, but big and heavy. Thirsty. More of a very useable GT car than a sports car.
Green1man said:
The obvious answer is a replacement 981 S Boxster with Bose and different options. Or if you can stretch a GTS. If not this I’d be tempted by a V6 F type, though not as practical or agile (what is this side of a Lotus) as the Boxster.
You're right, but I'm trying to think outside the box(ster)! The F-type is very sexy, but I'd be regretting not having bought a V8 model. Or does the V6 handle better?
As an update, the third party's insurance does not believe the value of my car is what I think it is. Surely the value of something is the price at which I can replace it, rather than the price listed in some guide somewhere? I shall post in the insurance forum for advice.
Meanwhile, I've been driving various cars:
BMW M4 - The DSG car I drove didn't feel urgent, and the steering felt sloppy. I thought the M4 would feel fast and amazing. I put it down to the semi automatic transmission, so I then tried a manual car. It felt much the same - slick, but dull and not very pointy.
Jaguar F-type - My local independent Porsche specialist had an F-type 3.0 V6, which felt fast but not quick, if you see what I mean. And the interior felt very plasticky. It made a surprisingly nice noise though, but I wanted more drama. On Wednesday, I tried a Supercharged V8 F-Type R at Guy Salmon in Ascot. Apart from the hideous body kit on it, This was much more my idea of a performance car, but what is this? An old-school automatic gearbox, despite the flappy paddles? For real? The performance was blistering but the steering was not particularly communicative. But that sound was practically orgasmic!
So I wonder. Has the Boxster S spoiled me? By most accounts, the Boxster S is one of the best handling cars out there this side of a Lotus or Ariel whatnot. Perhaps this is why people keep coming back to Porsche...
Meanwhile, I've been driving various cars:
BMW M4 - The DSG car I drove didn't feel urgent, and the steering felt sloppy. I thought the M4 would feel fast and amazing. I put it down to the semi automatic transmission, so I then tried a manual car. It felt much the same - slick, but dull and not very pointy.
Jaguar F-type - My local independent Porsche specialist had an F-type 3.0 V6, which felt fast but not quick, if you see what I mean. And the interior felt very plasticky. It made a surprisingly nice noise though, but I wanted more drama. On Wednesday, I tried a Supercharged V8 F-Type R at Guy Salmon in Ascot. Apart from the hideous body kit on it, This was much more my idea of a performance car, but what is this? An old-school automatic gearbox, despite the flappy paddles? For real? The performance was blistering but the steering was not particularly communicative. But that sound was practically orgasmic!
So I wonder. Has the Boxster S spoiled me? By most accounts, the Boxster S is one of the best handling cars out there this side of a Lotus or Ariel whatnot. Perhaps this is why people keep coming back to Porsche...
Shiv_P said:
The F type gearbox is the ZF 8 speed - it's quite highly rated and some think it is better than a DSG/dual clutch/S Tronic/DCT/whatever. It does depend on the car manufacturer though as to the implementation and software mapping etc so they aren't all the same
I wholly agree with the above.If it helps the OP I had a very similar decision to yours with a very similar list of cars, but under different circumstances.
Four years ago I had an E92 M3 convertible which I quite like despite it being heavy, I have always enjoyed having the roof down.
A friend and I rented a 2013 Boxster S from Munich airport and spent a week driving through the Alps and absolutely loved it, in almost every way a perfect driving car apart from the paddle shift button seem to be the wrong way round........ I set my sights on one and found that if you ordered the sports steering wheel the buttons I think within the right way round.
Six months later my friend and I went back to Munich, but this time hired a V6 S F-type and after a week of doing the same thing I was absolutely smitten. Both of us genuinely came away feeling that for the drama and the fun, and the looks you would definitely go for the F-type.
In the meantime I had sold my M3 and decided to go for an V8 Vantage (roadster). I really didn't get along with it and nor did anyone that drove it over the six months I ended, the general opinion of the half a dozen different friends was that it was slow, heavy and felt like it lived in a time warp. But every single one of us thought it was one of the most beautiful cars.Ultimately it had to go and thankfully for a nice profit which was all good.
So after driving a couple of V6 Types I decided to give the V8 trolley to see what all the fuss was about and now have one sat in the garage and have now owned it for a couple of years, at the moment I genuinely couldn't see what change to.
in comparison to the boxster I would say it probably feels a bit heavier and less nimble, but is a totally different beast of a car. Looks are subjective but I have owned a few boxsters and definitely prefer the Jaguar. the interior on the Boxster is a nicer place to sit, the navigation system is definitely better, but other than that to me the Jaguar wins hands down.
I hope you find this useful.
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