Alfa 159 - Which petrol engine?
Discussion
Hi all, never thought I'd ever be the guy with the 'what car' thread, but find myself in a bit of a quandary.
I think it's time for the Jag (3.0D XF) to go. Had it for a over a year now and am still struggling to love it. I think this is my fault and not the Jag's as I'm not sure I'm as keen on something big and wafty as I thought I was now that I've tried it. It's been very reliable and caused no trouble whatsoever, it just isn't doing it for me.
Having tried and failed to challenge my preconceptions of diesels and auto's I'm going to go for a petrol manual, and have always had a not-so-soft spot for the 159 so I've pretty much decided that's going to be what I go for, and I've set my heart on the Ti spec level as well as the seats look worth holding out for. The thing is I can't decide which engine: the 2.2JTS, the 1750 TBi, or the 3.2 V6.
I'm not overly fussed by MPG, but equally I have a modified 350z for the weekends so my daily car doesn't need to set the world on fire in terms of performance, I just want it to feel like a cohesive package and preferably not be actually slow.
I've driven the 2.2JTS in a 156 and I liked the 7.5k redline, nut whilst it certianly had a character to it, it did feel a little harsh and grumbly at certain points and not as quick as 185bhp would suggest it should.
I've driven the 1750 in a giulietta and very much felt like it was just 'an engine'. Didn't seem to have any notable character whatsoever. The question here is, as I'm not adverse to a bit of tinkering, is this an engine that can be played with to give it a bit more performance and make it feel a bit more individual?
The 3.2 I have no experience of at all and hand on heart it probably is the one I want, but A: they don't seem to exist in Ti trim and B: do I really need 2 V6's in my life?
Many thanks in advance for the guidance.
I realise the solution would be to go drive them all, but having been looking for a while now, Petrol 159's in Ti spec in decent nick are vanishingly rare so it seems I need to make up my mind now, and then wait to pounce once a car becomes available.
I think it's time for the Jag (3.0D XF) to go. Had it for a over a year now and am still struggling to love it. I think this is my fault and not the Jag's as I'm not sure I'm as keen on something big and wafty as I thought I was now that I've tried it. It's been very reliable and caused no trouble whatsoever, it just isn't doing it for me.
Having tried and failed to challenge my preconceptions of diesels and auto's I'm going to go for a petrol manual, and have always had a not-so-soft spot for the 159 so I've pretty much decided that's going to be what I go for, and I've set my heart on the Ti spec level as well as the seats look worth holding out for. The thing is I can't decide which engine: the 2.2JTS, the 1750 TBi, or the 3.2 V6.
I'm not overly fussed by MPG, but equally I have a modified 350z for the weekends so my daily car doesn't need to set the world on fire in terms of performance, I just want it to feel like a cohesive package and preferably not be actually slow.
I've driven the 2.2JTS in a 156 and I liked the 7.5k redline, nut whilst it certianly had a character to it, it did feel a little harsh and grumbly at certain points and not as quick as 185bhp would suggest it should.
I've driven the 1750 in a giulietta and very much felt like it was just 'an engine'. Didn't seem to have any notable character whatsoever. The question here is, as I'm not adverse to a bit of tinkering, is this an engine that can be played with to give it a bit more performance and make it feel a bit more individual?
The 3.2 I have no experience of at all and hand on heart it probably is the one I want, but A: they don't seem to exist in Ti trim and B: do I really need 2 V6's in my life?
Many thanks in advance for the guidance.
I realise the solution would be to go drive them all, but having been looking for a while now, Petrol 159's in Ti spec in decent nick are vanishingly rare so it seems I need to make up my mind now, and then wait to pounce once a car becomes available.
The V6 is the nicer one and should come with AWD I believe. This sadly isn't the 'busso' V6 and is a General Motors unit though.
The turbo unit would be the most flexible and the same basic engine as the Cloverleaf Guiletta, so tuning potential is there.
The JTS is a direct injection unit that is known for having coked up intakes, not a bad 4 pot engine but nothing really to recommend it over the other two. It's just likely to be the cheapest.
I would be inclined to try the both V6 and the 1.75TB and see which you like more.
The turbo unit would be the most flexible and the same basic engine as the Cloverleaf Guiletta, so tuning potential is there.
The JTS is a direct injection unit that is known for having coked up intakes, not a bad 4 pot engine but nothing really to recommend it over the other two. It's just likely to be the cheapest.
I would be inclined to try the both V6 and the 1.75TB and see which you like more.
The 1750TBi
The 1.8 MPI is a relatively low powered vauxhall lump
The 1.9 and 2.2 JTS are modified vauxhall lumps with chain stretching issues
The 3.2 JTS is a modified vauxhall lump with (apparently less frequent) chain issues, but much less nice then the old busso V6
A JTS with a fixed chain (vauxhall had the same issues, and did issue a recall, alfa didnt, but some owners had the vauxhall fix applied) should be a decent option, but you'll have to wade through the masses to find one.
The 1.8 MPI is a relatively low powered vauxhall lump
The 1.9 and 2.2 JTS are modified vauxhall lumps with chain stretching issues
The 3.2 JTS is a modified vauxhall lump with (apparently less frequent) chain issues, but much less nice then the old busso V6
A JTS with a fixed chain (vauxhall had the same issues, and did issue a recall, alfa didnt, but some owners had the vauxhall fix applied) should be a decent option, but you'll have to wade through the masses to find one.
1750 is a good modern engine providing enough ‘go’ while being economical enough.
1.8 too underpowered.
2.2 has a few issues (stretched timing chain) and is not that powerful for the amount of fuel it uses.
No idea on V6 but have heard that it’s a heavy old lump and thus affects handling compared to the other petrol engines.
1.8 too underpowered.
2.2 has a few issues (stretched timing chain) and is not that powerful for the amount of fuel it uses.
No idea on V6 but have heard that it’s a heavy old lump and thus affects handling compared to the other petrol engines.
Frankly the petrols in the 159/ Brera are all poor in terms of character, power delivery and reliability.
The 210bhp 2.4 Jtd is the one to go for, sounds good under power, not too bad at idle.
The 159 is and feels like a heavy car and needs the extra torque.
Drove a lot of them back in the day through work.
The 210bhp 2.4 Jtd is the one to go for, sounds good under power, not too bad at idle.
The 159 is and feels like a heavy car and needs the extra torque.
Drove a lot of them back in the day through work.
Vitorio said:
The 1750TBi
The 1.8 MPI is a relatively low powered vauxhall lump
The 1.9 and 2.2 JTS are modified vauxhall lumps with chain stretching issues
The 3.2 JTS is a modified vauxhall lump with (apparently less frequent) chain issues, but much less nice then the old busso V6
A JTS with a fixed chain (vauxhall had the same issues, and did issue a recall, alfa didnt, but some owners had the vauxhall fix applied) should be a decent option, but you'll have to wade through the masses to find one.
This, only downside is159s with this engine command almost double the asking price, its worth it and the only real choice, unless you have shares in BP and get the V6, but if your after a V6 you should get a 156 or 166.The 1.8 MPI is a relatively low powered vauxhall lump
The 1.9 and 2.2 JTS are modified vauxhall lumps with chain stretching issues
The 3.2 JTS is a modified vauxhall lump with (apparently less frequent) chain issues, but much less nice then the old busso V6
A JTS with a fixed chain (vauxhall had the same issues, and did issue a recall, alfa didnt, but some owners had the vauxhall fix applied) should be a decent option, but you'll have to wade through the masses to find one.
Thanks for the input all. Looks like the 1750TBi might be the way to go. I hear what some are saying about the price premium but they do also tend to be newer and lower mileage cars, and they're still well within budget even at double the price of the 2.2s.
As a point of note, I think I've found out why I can't find any Q4 V6's in TI trim: there were only ever 5 sold in the UK and one of those has since died according to How Many Left. Looks like I could be waiting for quite a while if I hold out for that so that does somewhat narrow it down. I think if I went for a Lusso V6 I'd always be irritated by the lack of all the nice Ti interior upgrades.
As a point of note, I think I've found out why I can't find any Q4 V6's in TI trim: there were only ever 5 sold in the UK and one of those has since died according to How Many Left. Looks like I could be waiting for quite a while if I hold out for that so that does somewhat narrow it down. I think if I went for a Lusso V6 I'd always be irritated by the lack of all the nice Ti interior upgrades.
RSTurboPaul said:
How does this diesel engine compare with the 1.9 diesel in the 147 etc., which is seemingly indestructible while giving great mpg?
(Does the 159 even have the 1.9 diesel lump?)
Far more refined, tons more power and torque, but about 20% worse mpg - I’ve seen these average 28mpg round town - where the 3.2 does 12.....(Does the 159 even have the 1.9 diesel lump?)
And yes the 120/150 1.9 was in the 159 as well, and later the 2.0, but I dont rate any of them in this car.
MalcolmSmith said:
RSTurboPaul said:
How does this diesel engine compare with the 1.9 diesel in the 147 etc., which is seemingly indestructible while giving great mpg?
(Does the 159 even have the 1.9 diesel lump?)
Far more refined, tons more power and torque, but about 20% worse mpg - I’ve seen these average 28mpg round town - where the 3.2 does 12.....(Does the 159 even have the 1.9 diesel lump?)
And yes the 120/150 1.9 was in the 159 as well, and later the 2.0, but I dont rate any of them in this car.
28mpg round town would be just fine for me - I think 12mpg would be somewhat painful, though... lol
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