N54-engined BMWs...performance bargain or best avoided?
Discussion
I've owned a couple of 3-Series in the past (E30 and E46 325is) and enjoyed them. However, neither were brilliant on fuel and through necessity, the last few years have seen me in more economical, mundane vehicles (VWs, Hondas, Toyotas, MINIs etc). The lure of something practical i.e. 4 seats but with balanced, RWD handling, a smooth straight six petrol engine and possibly a manual transmission is strong though and on paper, an E90/E92 335i with over 300 bhp but combined with decent fuel economy looks like good value for something costing in the region of 7-10k. However, I have heard that these early twin turbo sixes (N54 engines?) are notoriously unreliable. Is that true and ultimately are they worth the risk? Would I be better off seeking out a naturally-aspirated 330i or indeed a 530i (E60)? For some reason, I was sure that I had seen an E60 535i too but having done a bit more research, it seems like that car never existed and the fastest six-pot petrol E60 was the 530i? Am I also right in saying that the last of the E90/E92s 335is had the newer, (N55?) twin-scroll turbo N55 engines as used in the M135i and F30 335is? I assume that these are more reliable than the twin turbo engines (N54) and might be a better bet? If this did indeed happen in the E90/E92, when did the switch take place and how can you tell if it's a twin turbo or a twin-scroll single turbo model?
So in summary, are the turbo units in the 335i worth it for the extra power and torque or is the naturally aspirated 3 litre six in the 330i/530i a better bet in terms of reliability?
If the naturally-aspirated engine is the one to have, for 7-10k is an E90/E92 330i the better bet (I imagine the smaller car is a bit quicker, a bit more nimble and a bit sportier, plus has a manual option) but having never owned a full-size car before, the luxury of the E60 530i appeals and despite not being a fan of it when it was new, I think the E60 5-Series now looks fantastic, particularly in a dark colour in M Sport spec.
So in summary, are the turbo units in the 335i worth it for the extra power and torque or is the naturally aspirated 3 litre six in the 330i/530i a better bet in terms of reliability?
If the naturally-aspirated engine is the one to have, for 7-10k is an E90/E92 330i the better bet (I imagine the smaller car is a bit quicker, a bit more nimble and a bit sportier, plus has a manual option) but having never owned a full-size car before, the luxury of the E60 530i appeals and despite not being a fan of it when it was new, I think the E60 5-Series now looks fantastic, particularly in a dark colour in M Sport spec.
Interesting question. I went through similar motions when I looked to get my first BM. I struggled to find clean 330i and more recently 530i cars at all. Manuals are very rare and the ones that exist are top ££££.
That doesn't guarantee they aren't without fault. I ended up buying a 325i M Sport. 218bhp N52B block as it was a pre Direct Injection engine to avoid the walnut blasting required every 30-40k to keep the performance and smooth running in check. Essentially liable to coking their valve train up due to lack of port injection washing off the residue. Even my Port Injection engine had idling issues off an on, despite six coil packs, six new plugs, DISA variable intake system being refreshed. Frustrating
As for Turbo Straight six cars - waste gates on 335i N54 / N55 engines are very expensive to fix. High Pressure Fuel Pumps failure is likely if not that, then injectors. So unless you can budget a couple of grand as a contingency in addition to the purchase price, don't even bother looking. I get the draw, lovely straight six sound and LOADS of torque. But it's a flawed engine.
The cars drive beautifully. Exceptionally easy to drive fast if not a tad dull due to the lack of grunt low down. Lovely balance and when you really push them the drivetrain shows it's competency clearly. Fun to have a bit of sideways action when it gets wet or snowy. Lack of diffs are a shame but only noticed in wet weather when you need to pull away quickly.
Lastly the engines even without a 'PE' exhaust sound lovely. Miss that engine note tbh.
That doesn't guarantee they aren't without fault. I ended up buying a 325i M Sport. 218bhp N52B block as it was a pre Direct Injection engine to avoid the walnut blasting required every 30-40k to keep the performance and smooth running in check. Essentially liable to coking their valve train up due to lack of port injection washing off the residue. Even my Port Injection engine had idling issues off an on, despite six coil packs, six new plugs, DISA variable intake system being refreshed. Frustrating
As for Turbo Straight six cars - waste gates on 335i N54 / N55 engines are very expensive to fix. High Pressure Fuel Pumps failure is likely if not that, then injectors. So unless you can budget a couple of grand as a contingency in addition to the purchase price, don't even bother looking. I get the draw, lovely straight six sound and LOADS of torque. But it's a flawed engine.
The cars drive beautifully. Exceptionally easy to drive fast if not a tad dull due to the lack of grunt low down. Lovely balance and when you really push them the drivetrain shows it's competency clearly. Fun to have a bit of sideways action when it gets wet or snowy. Lack of diffs are a shame but only noticed in wet weather when you need to pull away quickly.
Lastly the engines even without a 'PE' exhaust sound lovely. Miss that engine note tbh.
I've owned an n54 335i for 2 and a half years and the only issue I've had is the waterpump failed. I've owned an e46 330ci and an e90 330i previously and much prefer the n54 engine, but that's just personal preference.
Don't expect it to be particularly fuel efficient though, I'm currently averaging 22mpg in an auto.
Don't expect it to be particularly fuel efficient though, I'm currently averaging 22mpg in an auto.
ACB85 said:
.......unless you can budget a couple of grand as a contingency in addition to the purchase price, don't even bother looking.....
Anyone wanting to properly run an out-of-warranty performance or semi-performance car would be wise to take note of the above. Additional warranties will often have fine print and loopholes that can allow them to wriggle out of paying for some or all of a claim.I only run a couple of semi-performance cars (Swift Sport and Insignia 2.8T) but I try to hold £4k in cash savings so I can quickly and properly get car repairs done.
Tobias Funke said:
....Don't expect it to be particularly fuel efficient though, I'm currently averaging 22mpg in an auto.....
Big autos hate town driving and short journeys but on longer, faster journeys they're usually not too far behind the mpg of eco-spec models. However, for long journeys most people choose diesel.Ron99 said:
Big autos hate town driving and short journeys but on longer, faster journeys they're usually not too far behind the mpg of eco-spec models.
Really? My 4.4 V8 managed 24mpg on a run.. does say a 535d auto only manage that? I'm looking for a new car with a company car allowance.. I was looking at BMW 520d M Sport.. circa 08/09/10.. but leaning towards a Volkswagen CC now.ACB85 said:
Interesting question. I went through similar motions when I looked to get my first BM. I struggled to find clean 330i and more recently 530i cars at all. Manuals are very rare and the ones that exist are top ££££.
That doesn't guarantee they aren't without fault. I ended up buying a 325i M Sport. 218bhp N52B block as it was a pre Direct Injection engine to avoid the walnut blasting required every 30-40k to keep the performance and smooth running in check. Essentially liable to coking their valve train up due to lack of port injection washing off the residue. Even my Port Injection engine had idling issues off an on, despite six coil packs, six new plugs, DISA variable intake system being refreshed. Frustrating
As for Turbo Straight six cars - waste gates on 335i N54 / N55 engines are very expensive to fix. High Pressure Fuel Pumps failure is likely if not that, then injectors. So unless you can budget a couple of grand as a contingency in addition to the purchase price, don't even bother looking. I get the draw, lovely straight six sound and LOADS of torque. But it's a flawed engine.
The cars drive beautifully. Exceptionally easy to drive fast if not a tad dull due to the lack of grunt low down. Lovely balance and when you really push them the drivetrain shows it's competency clearly. Fun to have a bit of sideways action when it gets wet or snowy. Lack of diffs are a shame but only noticed in wet weather when you need to pull away quickly.
Lastly the engines even without a 'PE' exhaust sound lovely. Miss that engine note tbh.
Thanks tomic and ACB85. Interesting, so even the N55 isn't without problems? If my budget was higher, an M135i or an F30 335i would have been pretty high up my list so that's good to know.That doesn't guarantee they aren't without fault. I ended up buying a 325i M Sport. 218bhp N52B block as it was a pre Direct Injection engine to avoid the walnut blasting required every 30-40k to keep the performance and smooth running in check. Essentially liable to coking their valve train up due to lack of port injection washing off the residue. Even my Port Injection engine had idling issues off an on, despite six coil packs, six new plugs, DISA variable intake system being refreshed. Frustrating
As for Turbo Straight six cars - waste gates on 335i N54 / N55 engines are very expensive to fix. High Pressure Fuel Pumps failure is likely if not that, then injectors. So unless you can budget a couple of grand as a contingency in addition to the purchase price, don't even bother looking. I get the draw, lovely straight six sound and LOADS of torque. But it's a flawed engine.
The cars drive beautifully. Exceptionally easy to drive fast if not a tad dull due to the lack of grunt low down. Lovely balance and when you really push them the drivetrain shows it's competency clearly. Fun to have a bit of sideways action when it gets wet or snowy. Lack of diffs are a shame but only noticed in wet weather when you need to pull away quickly.
Lastly the engines even without a 'PE' exhaust sound lovely. Miss that engine note tbh.
My E30 and E46 had a few minor issues and cosmetic issues but were mechanically bombproof. I didn't realise that the NA N53 engines still had issues. Is the N53 just the 3 litre engine or is it also the 2.5 engine as well? If the N52 engine has less issues what model year 330i/530is should I be looking at and I assume that these have a bit less power? I hadn't considered a 325i/525i but it might give me a few more options and if the engines are pretty solid in these then they might be a safer bet (I believe that they still have a bit more power than my E46 325i)?
My dream car is an E90/E92 M3 and although I could just about afford to buy one, I know that I couldn't afford to fix it or put fuel in it. The six pots seem like a good compromise with the 330is/335is getting on for E36 M3 levels of performance but significantly better fuel economy than an E90/E92 M3, however, if they're just as potentially troublesome as an M3 then I'm not really interested. I would expect a six-pot BMW to be more expensive to run than a four cylinder ****box and the lower purchase price helps but I'm not too keen on four figure repair bills on a regular basis.
Lee540 said:
Ron99 said:
Big autos hate town driving and short journeys but on longer, faster journeys they're usually not too far behind the mpg of eco-spec models.
Really? My 4.4 V8 managed 24mpg on a run.. does say a 535d auto only manage that? I'm looking for a new car with a company car allowance.. I was looking at BMW 520d M Sport.. circa 08/09/10.. but leaning towards a Volkswagen CC now.Which 4.4 V8 did you drive?
Sounds like either old-tech, poor design, not running right, a very heavy car or one with poor aerodynamics.
And of course petrol will only achieve three-quarters of the mpg compared to diesel.
Having owned a few of these (330i,335i,330d,335d.325,125,130) I can give some genuine advice on this.
One of my 335i was close to 200,000 miles when I sold it and it mostly was original.
Having owned a few of them id say the 330i is a good sensible choice - still has potential for large bills of course.
One of my 335i was close to 200,000 miles when I sold it and it mostly was original.
Having owned a few of them id say the 330i is a good sensible choice - still has potential for large bills of course.
I think the 335i issues are a bit over exaggerated by what’s written on line, I’ve had 4, so have experience of most of the problems at some point.
If you take the turbo wastegate problem you are left with problems which can just as easily occur on a 330i ( water pump fuel pump injectors).
The wastegate rattle is actually more of an annoyance than a real problem, and on an older cheaper car you could easily just ignore the rattle ( it’s only at start up and then certain refs when you lift off the throttle). It does not affect performance and if eventually it does then it can be adjusted out - rattle will still be there on cold start up but no 30ff fault codes.
The 335i as a manual is great fun, it’s a fantastic engine with huge amount of low down power and loves revs as well so it’s a pleasant drive.
A 330i is also fab engine loves revs but not much at lower revs. Both cars are seriously blunted by the Auto version and mpg is also much worse with the auto.
335d also worth a mention the low down pick up is fantastic on these and can easily be given a bit more boost with a map:
Don’t buy a cheap 330/335/335d if you are the sort of owner who reaches out for the nearest main dealer or Bmw specialist at the first sign of a warning light! You need to be a bit smarter than that or face loads of unnecessary large bills if you do. My 335i coupe made it to 196,000 miles on its original turbos fuel pump and suspension and drive train and it got driven quite hard along the way - never broke down once either.
If you take the turbo wastegate problem you are left with problems which can just as easily occur on a 330i ( water pump fuel pump injectors).
The wastegate rattle is actually more of an annoyance than a real problem, and on an older cheaper car you could easily just ignore the rattle ( it’s only at start up and then certain refs when you lift off the throttle). It does not affect performance and if eventually it does then it can be adjusted out - rattle will still be there on cold start up but no 30ff fault codes.
The 335i as a manual is great fun, it’s a fantastic engine with huge amount of low down power and loves revs as well so it’s a pleasant drive.
A 330i is also fab engine loves revs but not much at lower revs. Both cars are seriously blunted by the Auto version and mpg is also much worse with the auto.
335d also worth a mention the low down pick up is fantastic on these and can easily be given a bit more boost with a map:
Don’t buy a cheap 330/335/335d if you are the sort of owner who reaches out for the nearest main dealer or Bmw specialist at the first sign of a warning light! You need to be a bit smarter than that or face loads of unnecessary large bills if you do. My 335i coupe made it to 196,000 miles on its original turbos fuel pump and suspension and drive train and it got driven quite hard along the way - never broke down once either.
I went E92 M3(manual) to a E90 330i(auto) and I really liked the smoothness of the N52 engine in the 330i. I'd avoid the auto though because it doesn't really suit the engines characteristics.
With hindsight now I would go 335i instead of the 330i though because the 330i(N52)is thirsty for the performance it offers. The 330i is pretty heavy so it can feel pretty limp unless thrashed, whereas the 335i has the extra bhp/torque to help deal with the weight. Plus the 335i has a great tuning potential.
My 330i was completely faultless though(I even escaped the dreaded waterpump failure)in the 4 years I had it, and I'm sure a 335i wouldn't have been as dependable.
With hindsight now I would go 335i instead of the 330i though because the 330i(N52)is thirsty for the performance it offers. The 330i is pretty heavy so it can feel pretty limp unless thrashed, whereas the 335i has the extra bhp/torque to help deal with the weight. Plus the 335i has a great tuning potential.
My 330i was completely faultless though(I even escaped the dreaded waterpump failure)in the 4 years I had it, and I'm sure a 335i wouldn't have been as dependable.
Had my N54 335i for nearly 6 years now and never had any warranty with it. Problems so far have been 2 lambda sensors and a gearbox sump - total about £500.
Done about 34,000 miles (on 66,000 now) which doesn't sound much in 6 years, but I don't use it for commuting and it really only does a 300 mile round trip every couple of weeks to see elderly parents. My 32mpg average is testament to the type of driving.
As above, the 330i can have the same water pump, injectors and fuel pump issues and the only extra issue is the wastegates.
I do all servicing on mine and if you do similar, they aren't the easiest to work on. Access is quite tight for a lot of things. Water pump looks a right sod to do as there is barely enough room to get the thing out and it's underneath.
Lovely motor though with lots of shove low down (which I like).
Done about 34,000 miles (on 66,000 now) which doesn't sound much in 6 years, but I don't use it for commuting and it really only does a 300 mile round trip every couple of weeks to see elderly parents. My 32mpg average is testament to the type of driving.
As above, the 330i can have the same water pump, injectors and fuel pump issues and the only extra issue is the wastegates.
I do all servicing on mine and if you do similar, they aren't the easiest to work on. Access is quite tight for a lot of things. Water pump looks a right sod to do as there is barely enough room to get the thing out and it's underneath.
Lovely motor though with lots of shove low down (which I like).
I've had an e92 330i for the last three and a half years. current milage 93k. I was put off my the 335 because of the scare stories. But at no point have i ever felt this car needed more power, its more than quick enough for the roads, averaging 35mpg on an A road commute and 40 on the motorway its been a brilliant car. Only an abs sensor has failed in all that time.
Its not to expensive to run, find a decent specialist and you'll be fine. I think brake discs being the most costly item so far.
Its not to expensive to run, find a decent specialist and you'll be fine. I think brake discs being the most costly item so far.
Ron99 said:
Lee540 said:
Ron99 said:
Big autos hate town driving and short journeys but on longer, faster journeys they're usually not too far behind the mpg of eco-spec models.
Really? My 4.4 V8 managed 24mpg on a run.. does say a 535d auto only manage that? I'm looking for a new car with a company car allowance.. I was looking at BMW 520d M Sport.. circa 08/09/10.. but leaning towards a Volkswagen CC now.Which 4.4 V8 did you drive?
Sounds like either old-tech, poor design, not running right, a very heavy car or one with poor aerodynamics.
And of course petrol will only achieve three-quarters of the mpg compared to diesel.
Patrick Bateman said:
Ron99 said:
Lee540 said:
Ron99 said:
Big autos hate town driving and short journeys but on longer, faster journeys they're usually not too far behind the mpg of eco-spec models.
Really? My 4.4 V8 managed 24mpg on a run.. does say a 535d auto only manage that? I'm looking for a new car with a company car allowance.. I was looking at BMW 520d M Sport.. circa 08/09/10.. but leaning towards a Volkswagen CC now.Which 4.4 V8 did you drive?
Sounds like either old-tech, poor design, not running right, a very heavy car or one with poor aerodynamics.
And of course petrol will only achieve three-quarters of the mpg compared to diesel.
My first straight 6 petrol BMW was a Z4 Coupe that I bought in 2014 and I've still got one! The Z4C only got the N52 engine (unless you bought the M) and the only issue I have had was an electric water pump failure at 9 years of age and 60K miles - but the N53 has the same set up. I don't know, but the N54 and N55 might do as well.
I then bought an E46 325ti with the M54 engine as a daily, but have recently replaced that with an E91 325i with the 2.5 litre N52 engine. I really didn't want an N53 after reading about HPFP and injector issues and coking up problems.
I think the E9* series switched from the N52 engine to the N53 sometime in 2007 - you can easily tell with 325is as the N52 ones are 2.5 litre whereas N53 325is have a 3 litre engine, but the same quoted power output (218 bhp). And I'm pretty sure the N53s are in a lower tax band.
E9* series 330is are weird! E90 and E91s with the N52 engine are quoted as having 258 bhp, but E92 and E93s seem to make 265 bhp like my Z4C! And they are in Band K for road tax. The N53 engined ones claim 272 bhp and also fall into a lower tax band.
I think the 335is make 306 bhp, but early ones are in Band M for road tax.
Might as well buy an M if you're going to pay over £500 a year! 
Good luck working out which one suits you best.
I then bought an E46 325ti with the M54 engine as a daily, but have recently replaced that with an E91 325i with the 2.5 litre N52 engine. I really didn't want an N53 after reading about HPFP and injector issues and coking up problems.
I think the E9* series switched from the N52 engine to the N53 sometime in 2007 - you can easily tell with 325is as the N52 ones are 2.5 litre whereas N53 325is have a 3 litre engine, but the same quoted power output (218 bhp). And I'm pretty sure the N53s are in a lower tax band.
E9* series 330is are weird! E90 and E91s with the N52 engine are quoted as having 258 bhp, but E92 and E93s seem to make 265 bhp like my Z4C! And they are in Band K for road tax. The N53 engined ones claim 272 bhp and also fall into a lower tax band.
I think the 335is make 306 bhp, but early ones are in Band M for road tax.
Might as well buy an M if you're going to pay over £500 a year! Good luck working out which one suits you best.
I owned a 2007 model E92 335i for 2 years a few years ago. I liked the car, it had a small remap circa 360 bhp which made for quite a quick car. 18 months into my ownership a very slight metallic rattle raised it's head during cold start up at 72k mls. Dreaded waste gate rattle but it didn't effect the performance at all. I had a part warranty on the car so had the problem sorted, new turbos etc at a grand total of £2850
, I had to cough up £1k. Kept the car for 6 months after but the want for an E92 M3 made me sell the 335i to a good mate who still has it today and it hasn't missed a beat since he bought it off me and uses it as a daily. If you can find one with all or some of the known problems sorted you will have a quick tidy car. I would buy one again...
, I had to cough up £1k. Kept the car for 6 months after but the want for an E92 M3 made me sell the 335i to a good mate who still has it today and it hasn't missed a beat since he bought it off me and uses it as a daily. If you can find one with all or some of the known problems sorted you will have a quick tidy car. I would buy one again...Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff