Cars that still use conventional (TC) automatic gearbox
Discussion
Hello Pistonians,
After a very bad experience with semi automatic gearbox which resulted in scrapping the car, I recently bought a proper automatic car, a 2001 Toyota which has the old school torque converter (TC) type auto gearbox. I quite like the way the car drives and how seamless the gear changes are both in city and motorways even with 90000 miles on the clock. Now despite it being the most reliable and the oldest of all autos, there are now less choices of TC gearboxes since they are not really associated with returning good fuel economy.
and that got me thinking when the time comes for me to buy a brand new car in the future, what TC gearbox options do I have? Toyotas made after 2006 switched to the terrible semi autos and the current gen (along with other Japanese brands) appears to be mostly CVT. Then there are DCT type Auto gearboxes which are quite good for performance but its reliability hasn't been tested as its been in the mainstream for only the last 10 years or so. I can see why though semi autos, DCT and CVT are getting popular as they tend to be economical compared to old school autos.
So far I have found Mazda to be the only brand that's still actively sells TC gearbox cars. Kia now only uses it in their entry level compact cars.
Anyone know any other new cars that's uses TC gearbox?
After a very bad experience with semi automatic gearbox which resulted in scrapping the car, I recently bought a proper automatic car, a 2001 Toyota which has the old school torque converter (TC) type auto gearbox. I quite like the way the car drives and how seamless the gear changes are both in city and motorways even with 90000 miles on the clock. Now despite it being the most reliable and the oldest of all autos, there are now less choices of TC gearboxes since they are not really associated with returning good fuel economy.
and that got me thinking when the time comes for me to buy a brand new car in the future, what TC gearbox options do I have? Toyotas made after 2006 switched to the terrible semi autos and the current gen (along with other Japanese brands) appears to be mostly CVT. Then there are DCT type Auto gearboxes which are quite good for performance but its reliability hasn't been tested as its been in the mainstream for only the last 10 years or so. I can see why though semi autos, DCT and CVT are getting popular as they tend to be economical compared to old school autos.
So far I have found Mazda to be the only brand that's still actively sells TC gearbox cars. Kia now only uses it in their entry level compact cars.
Anyone know any other new cars that's uses TC gearbox?
Suzuki Baleno and Swift with the 1.0 Boosterjet have what I believe is a TC auto on the SZ5 trim levels. I have driven a Baleno with this set up and it's really, really good. We have an 11 plate Swift with a TC auto and it is very smooth so I can fully appreciate your point - I too am dubious about long term reliability of double clutch and semi auto transmissions.
I'm not quite sure where you're getting the idea that TC autos are rare. The ZF 7, 8 and 9 speed torque converter autos, for example, are common in automatic cars outside of VAGs DSG boxes and BMW's occasional use of DCT.
A lot of the older semi-automatic transmissions are actually just bog standard torque converter autos with a manual override on the gear change - Volvo's Geartronic box for example - so are no more or less reliable than the auto box on which they're based.
CVT is actually rarer because a lot of people don't get on with the sensation of the car revving away in the power band while road speed catches up with it.
I'm not sure how accurate your comments on gearbox reliability are either. Older TC boxes can soldier on for a long time, but when they do fail they can be very expensive to fix. Gearbox failure has to be right up there as common reason for scrapping older autos.
A lot of the older semi-automatic transmissions are actually just bog standard torque converter autos with a manual override on the gear change - Volvo's Geartronic box for example - so are no more or less reliable than the auto box on which they're based.
CVT is actually rarer because a lot of people don't get on with the sensation of the car revving away in the power band while road speed catches up with it.
I'm not sure how accurate your comments on gearbox reliability are either. Older TC boxes can soldier on for a long time, but when they do fail they can be very expensive to fix. Gearbox failure has to be right up there as common reason for scrapping older autos.
charltjr said:
I'm not quite sure where you're getting the idea that TC autos are rare. The ZF 7, 8 and 9 speed torque converter autos, for example, are common in automatic cars outside of VAGs DSG boxes and BMW's occasional use of DCT.
A lot of the older semi-automatic transmissions are actually just bog standard torque converter autos with a manual override on the gear change - Volvo's Geartronic box for example - so are no more or less reliable than the auto box on which they're based.
CVT is actually rarer because a lot of people don't get on with the sensation of the car revving away in the power band while road speed catches up with it.
I'm not sure how accurate your comments on gearbox reliability are either. Older TC boxes can soldier on for a long time, but when they do fail they can be very expensive to fix. Gearbox failure has to be right up there as common reason for scrapping older autos.
hi charltjr,A lot of the older semi-automatic transmissions are actually just bog standard torque converter autos with a manual override on the gear change - Volvo's Geartronic box for example - so are no more or less reliable than the auto box on which they're based.
CVT is actually rarer because a lot of people don't get on with the sensation of the car revving away in the power band while road speed catches up with it.
I'm not sure how accurate your comments on gearbox reliability are either. Older TC boxes can soldier on for a long time, but when they do fail they can be very expensive to fix. Gearbox failure has to be right up there as common reason for scrapping older autos.
thanks very much for opening my eyes there. Stupid as this may sound, I was under the wrong assumption that ZF gearboxes were DCT/DSG types and anything ending with 'tronic' are basically semi automated manuals. I guess you learn something new everyday lol.
However I am not really into these so called 'premium cars' like BMW, Audi or Volvo since they tend to cost you an arm and kidney for a repair. You happen to know any reasonably priced cars (and reliable) that still depends on conventional gearboxes. It appears the Japanese (besides mazda) and their Korean counterparts have moved toward CVT or DCT. Vauxhall is still stuck with semi autos while Volkswagen have moved towards DSG. I wont say even a word about the French ones.
kieranblenk said:
Suzuki Baleno and Swift with the 1.0 Boosterjet have what I believe is a TC auto on the SZ5 trim levels. I have driven a Baleno with this set up and it's really, really good. We have an 11 plate Swift with a TC auto and it is very smooth so I can fully appreciate your point - I too am dubious about long term reliability of double clutch and semi auto transmissions.
I forgot to add that the Kia Picanto, Rio and Hyundai i10 can be had with a TC. Furthermore, the Kia Venga and Hyundai ix20 can also, but linked to a thirsty 1.6 petrol engine. You can still get the Vauxhall Corsa with a TC on the 1.4 petrol engine. The Mini One with the aforementioned ZF auto box isn't badly priced also although sparsely equipped.I would choose one of the Suzukis myself.
kieranblenk said:
kieranblenk said:
Suzuki Baleno and Swift with the 1.0 Boosterjet have what I believe is a TC auto on the SZ5 trim levels. I have driven a Baleno with this set up and it's really, really good. We have an 11 plate Swift with a TC auto and it is very smooth so I can fully appreciate your point - I too am dubious about long term reliability of double clutch and semi auto transmissions.
I forgot to add that the Kia Picanto, Rio and Hyundai i10 can be had with a TC. Furthermore, the Kia Venga and Hyundai ix20 can also, but linked to a thirsty 1.6 petrol engine. You can still get the Vauxhall Corsa with a TC on the 1.4 petrol engine. The Mini One with the aforementioned ZF auto box isn't badly priced also although sparsely equipped.I would choose one of the Suzukis myself.
jerrin91 said:
hi Kieran, the kia and Hyundai ones you mentioned appear to be small with small engines. Suzuki appears to have a good track record. But how good is their after sale care service? (if you bought the car from their dealer) Not a lot you can find online considering how small their presence is in uk
My partner and I have had a Swift for the last 4 and a bit years, we have used two dealers for servicing and also when we've looked at changing but decided to hang on; both have been faultless. I have a massive soft spot for Suzuki myself and our Swift has 91,000 miles on the clock (70k of those in our ownership) and it has been brilliant *touchwood*.kieranblenk said:
Suzuki Baleno and Swift with the 1.0 Boosterjet have what I believe is a TC auto on the SZ5 trim levels. I have driven a Baleno with this set up and it's really, really good. We have an 11 plate Swift with a TC auto and it is very smooth so I can fully appreciate your point - I too am dubious about long term reliability of double clutch and semi auto transmissions.
I know this thread is old but keen to know whether it's true that the Baleno 1.0 automatic is indeed a torque convertor.The wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_Baleno_(2015)) suggests the 1.0 has the AWTF-80 SC gearbox which is a dual clutch gearbox, I believe.
Honest John said it was TC (https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/answer/68354/what-is-the-suzuki-baleno-automatic-like-) and he usually knows his stuff, but...
Most manufacturers are going back to conventional torque-converter autos now, as a apposed to single and dual-clutch systems, even in performance models. So, if you're looking at new cars, you should be fine. The introduction of the ZF 8-speed has changed the game now, aswell as other autos following up with similarly capable applications. They're almost as quick as DCT's, but are much more simple and smoother.
petercw123 said:
I know this thread is old but keen to know whether it's true that the Baleno 1.0 automatic is indeed a torque convertor.
The wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_Baleno_(2015)) suggests the 1.0 has the AWTF-80 SC gearbox which is a dual clutch gearbox, I believe.
Honest John said it was TC (https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/answer/68354/what-is-the-suzuki-baleno-automatic-like-) and he usually knows his stuff, but...
Looks like it has a torque converter, it's not dual clutch box. The wikipedia page (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_Baleno_(2015)) suggests the 1.0 has the AWTF-80 SC gearbox which is a dual clutch gearbox, I believe.
Honest John said it was TC (https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/askhj/answer/68354/what-is-the-suzuki-baleno-automatic-like-) and he usually knows his stuff, but...
drdino said:
Looks like it has a torque converter, it's not dual clutch box.
I thought Honest John was probably right but strange that Wikipedia says otherwise. Unless I've misunderstood wikipedia.This site - https://ultramar.fandom.com/wiki/Suzuki_Baleno - also claims that the Baleno uses the AWTF-80 SC.
Wikipedia says of the AWTF-80 SC that "gear changes are accomplished by one clutch engaging the instant the clutch from the previous gear disengages", which made me assume that it's a DCT.
However having read more into it it seems that it may be a TC gearbox.
Basically I'm confused.
Edited by petercw123 on Thursday 14th January 14:18
petercw123 said:
drdino said:
Looks like it has a torque converter, it's not dual clutch box.
I thought Honest John was probably right but strange that Wikipedia says otherwise. Unless I've misunderstood wikipedia.This site - https://ultramar.fandom.com/wiki/Suzuki_Baleno - also claims that the Baleno uses the AWTF-80 SC.
Wikipedia says of the AWTF-80 SC that "gear changes are accomplished by one clutch engaging the instant the clutch from the previous gear disengages", which made me assume that it's a DCT.
However having read more into it it seems that it may be a TC gearbox.
Basically I'm confused.
Edited by petercw123 on Thursday 14th January 14:18
Now superseded by the 8-speed FWD gearbox.
csd19 said:
It's a torque convertor box, had it in my '06 V70 and the '09 Vectra. Wiki also lists the Suzuki Baleno on the TF80SC page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AWTF-80_SC#Applicati....
Now superseded by the 8-speed FWD gearbox.
A torque convertor box, with twin clutches, but not a dual clutch transmission! Got it.... :-SNow superseded by the 8-speed FWD gearbox.
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