Small cheap 4x4
Discussion
I expect that this topic has cropped up elsewhere at some point, but I am trying to get some opinions on small 4x4s. I live slap bang in the middle of nowhere and for most of the time access isn't an issue, but I have found over the last couple of years that the weather has posed problems for getting out and about. So, I am looking at a small 4x4 and am thinking along the lines of Fiat Panda or Suzuki Jimny. Budget is about £4k as it is simply not going to get much use. Anything else to look at that I have missed? Don't want an old Jeep or Subaru as the smaller the better.
ElectricSoup said:
Not just the Jimny, but there's also the Suzuki Ignis 4x4.
Depends what you are looking for.Jimny has a robust solid axle body on frame design, you can knock of off rocks, kerbs, any type of holes etc etc and it'll likely be fine)
Jimny has a off road bias part time 4wd system, on the road it is RWD, the centre diff locks which makes it great for pulling itself out of slippery stuff, but will break if used in a high grip environment.
Ignis 4Grip has a road bias independent suspension design, it will drive better on the road and offer greater comfort (less bouncy), however is less robust
Ignis 4Grip has a road bias viscous coupling AWD system. This is FWD bias that automatically transfers power to the rear when it senses loss of traction, this maintains an open centre diff which works on the road, however off road these systems don't offer the same degree of grip, and have an awful habit of overheating and breaking under heavy use.
Panda falls into the same group as the Ignis 4Grip (assuming the >00 generation, the old boxy one is more jimny-esque).
Personally I have a Jimny, the 4wd system handles Scottish snow well enough as you can switch between 2wd and 4wd well rolling. Generally I used 4wd to get out of my driveway, down the unplowed side street, then popped it back into 2wd just before I pull out onto the main road. It drives like a commercial vehicle, but is quite chuckable once you get used to it.
robinh73 said:
Cheers for this, certainly more choice than I initially thought. Any thoughts on the Mitsubishi Shogun Pinin?
I'd say from a capability viewpoint, they sit in the same place as the RAV4, riding the line between a 4wd crossover (SX4, Ignis, Juke, Panda, etc) and a proper 4x4 (Jimny, Disco, FF Shogun etc). I believe it has Mitsubishi's super select 4wd system, which whilst good (proper diff locking 4wd, but with the option for an open 4wd road mode), can become unreliable with age (runs on an old vacuum system, it leaks and the solenoids go). They also have a reputation for rusting worst than other things of their age. In this segment there is also the Suzuki (Grand) Vitara, which, again rides the line between crossover and proper 4x4.
caelite said:
robinh73 said:
Cheers for this, certainly more choice than I initially thought. Any thoughts on the Mitsubishi Shogun Pinin?
I'd say from a capability viewpoint, they sit in the same place as the RAV4, riding the line between a 4wd crossover (SX4, Ignis, Juke, Panda, etc) and a proper 4x4 (Jimny, Disco, FF Shogun etc). I believe it has Mitsubishi's super select 4wd system, which whilst good (proper diff locking 4wd, but with the option for an open 4wd road mode), can become unreliable with age (runs on an old vacuum system, it leaks and the solenoids go). They also have a reputation for rusting worst than other things of their age. In this segment there is also the Suzuki (Grand) Vitara, which, again rides the line between crossover and proper 4x4.
robinh73 said:
Ok that is good to know. Just looked at the Shogun Pinin and they seem to offer quite a lot of tin for your pound, but if they are going to be slightly fragile, then it may be a non starter. The Jimny does keep calling, just need to find a good one. They seemed to change (from what I can see in pictures) from a manual 2/4wd shift to a push button system around 2004. Any idea on which works better? My inclination would be the manual lever operated is preferable?
To be honest, their doesn't seem to be much in it for the Jimnys. Each has its advantages.There where facelift in '06 and '12. The 06 lift included a new interior, newer beefyer front bumper, the electronic t-case and a different gearbox, and an updated engine. The 12 facelift was simply an updated front end appearance and new driver assists.
Now the 06 has a few benefits over the original 98 onwards models, but a couple of drawbacks. The big benefit is the more modern VVT engine, much more useable power band delivering more low end torque and a ~10% jump in mpg. However early facelifts had gearbox issues, the rear oil seal was badly designed and tended to leak, as people don't generally check their gear oil this knackered the bearings over time, I believe that Suzuki fixed this by the 08 models, and many 06/07 models still on the road have been fixed (but still I'd be wary). The electronic t-case seems fairly bulletproof. The weak point in Jimnies is the front vacuum hubs, which all models suffer from. But many swap these out for far more reliable manual hubs (you need to get out the car and turn the wheel hubs to engine 4wd). The only advantage I know with the manual t-case is that there was a way to trick it into allowing you to use the low range transfer box, whilst still in 2wd. Which made it a fantastic little trailer shunter. You can do this with manual hubs anyway though.
The 06 onward interior is also FAR more modern the 98-06 Jimnys are very "90s Japanese".
In the 2012 facelift I believe they got electronic skid control and traction control(?). Not sure how beneficial these where as I've not driven one, however it did allow the 12 onwards to pass the Scandinavian moose test.
One disadvantage of the 06-12 is the bumper design, it extends lower and can rub more if fitted with larger wheels/tyres.
Jimnys do rust a bit as all small jap cars seem to. Places to watch are under the headlights and in the boot floor under the rear seats and where the jack sits. Whilst being body on frame they don't lose any rigidity to this rust, it can effect the front and rear body mounts in these places.
If it's just to cope with the odd bit of snow and mud, you really don't need low ratio boxes and such like. A perm 4x4 with decent tyres on it will do admirably. Rav4 or similar will be fine. I picked up a cheap one a couple of years ago. It's built like a tank for a little crossover and I've not got it stuck yet in quite deep muddy conditions, and it was superb in the snow. AT tyres are the answer.
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