Civic Type Rs and early Copper S seem quite a bargain. Why?
Discussion
I have been hunting around for a little runabout suitable for my Mother for the past week or so. As I have looked around various dealerships, it has struck me that the Civic Type R (FN2, I think is the model name) and early Mini Copper S models seem to be a bit of a bargain. It seems that less than five grand can get you a really tidy example of either model. This is interesting to me as particularly in the case of the Cooper, which can be bought for a couple of grand, they are down at the sort of price point where I am seriously considering buying one as a second, weekend car.
Is there something wrong with them? Do they break down every 20 minutes? Do they consume cast quantities of fuel? I must be missing something.
The title should read "Cooper S" not Copper S". Fat fingers.
Is there something wrong with them? Do they break down every 20 minutes? Do they consume cast quantities of fuel? I must be missing something.
The title should read "Cooper S" not Copper S". Fat fingers.
I have a Cooper S as my daily, last of the "proper" ones with a Supercharger rather than the crappy turbo.
Great little car, 30+ MPG, cheap tax, relatively low running costs (although I have just had the torque bushes done at £300+).
ETA I paid £2.5k with 92k miles and "some" history but its a really good spec and a 55 plate so the remapped one to around 169 BHP.
Great little car, 30+ MPG, cheap tax, relatively low running costs (although I have just had the torque bushes done at £300+).
ETA I paid £2.5k with 92k miles and "some" history but its a really good spec and a 55 plate so the remapped one to around 169 BHP.
EP3s seem to be going up in value or were recently.
FN2 is generally considered the worst civic type r made - for various reasons, but I reckon they get more stick than they deserve.
Remember that these are in competition with the 172/182 and even the latter clio. You can get a 172 for a grand, so nobody is going to pay four times that much for a civic or mini.
They are also very old now and in the slump of being too new that there is loads of them about but too old that no one wants to buy one. 5 years time they will probably be worth double what they are now.
Nothing wrong with the Cooper S imo, just they are generally bought by people who want a mini because it's a mini or it looks cute. These people would be put off by the age as it wouldn't go well with there latest iPhone.
FN2 is generally considered the worst civic type r made - for various reasons, but I reckon they get more stick than they deserve.
Remember that these are in competition with the 172/182 and even the latter clio. You can get a 172 for a grand, so nobody is going to pay four times that much for a civic or mini.
They are also very old now and in the slump of being too new that there is loads of them about but too old that no one wants to buy one. 5 years time they will probably be worth double what they are now.
Nothing wrong with the Cooper S imo, just they are generally bought by people who want a mini because it's a mini or it looks cute. These people would be put off by the age as it wouldn't go well with there latest iPhone.
The FN2 is the type R that no one really wants, so prices are tumbling whilst they firm up and rise across other type R models.
EP3 type Rs are a proper bargain at the moment for what they are, you can pick up a tidy high miler for £2k...thats a lot of performance and relative reliability for the money.
EP3 type Rs are a proper bargain at the moment for what they are, you can pick up a tidy high miler for £2k...thats a lot of performance and relative reliability for the money.
I used to have an 2007 FN2. Owned it for three years as year old ex dealer car. Whilst looking and sounding great it was not fun to drive being one dimensional and numb on limit. But it was super practical and was an event to drive and cruise around in and easily did daily duties. (Also seemed to be a hit with ladies too)
Now have a late 2006 first gen Cooper, not the S as wanted cheap to run second car. Bought it for peanuts with 95k miles. Had it nearly three years and put another 30k on it. No plans to sell it. It's totally won me over. Handling on road and track is brilliant. Can be thrashed around at road speeds and be fun. No where as practical- basically a two seater with optional big boot with seats down.
It's not been totally problem free but most things I've been able to fix myself and learned a lot doing it. I've really used mine - its been on a stage of Wales Rally GB, done several trackdays, been to the Highlands, through floods, ice and hail. I've only had a few big bills recently (total less than grand) plus all the consumables and routine servicing. Whilst in last week told they see plenty with nearly 200k miles. Later ones are more reliable.
Back when the MINI was new it would have been too expensive and possibly seen as too feminine. I was considering the S as nearly new when I bought the Civic. But Coopers S with spec I wanted were mid 20s when Civic was 15.
Actually think Mini is big bargain and can't see well looked after ones getting much cheaper. They are old but look around as so much variation. Mine has cruise control and part leather that looks new but others can be very tatty. They are both old now so performance ones will be bought by enthusiasts as the masses get lease deals on 500s etc. The Civic because it will be totally bulit proof, might hold value relatively, but can see why they are cheap and getting cheaper. Unless you need the space the Cooper is so much better. The supercharged one would be great but standard Coopers are great compromise for the money.
Now have a late 2006 first gen Cooper, not the S as wanted cheap to run second car. Bought it for peanuts with 95k miles. Had it nearly three years and put another 30k on it. No plans to sell it. It's totally won me over. Handling on road and track is brilliant. Can be thrashed around at road speeds and be fun. No where as practical- basically a two seater with optional big boot with seats down.
It's not been totally problem free but most things I've been able to fix myself and learned a lot doing it. I've really used mine - its been on a stage of Wales Rally GB, done several trackdays, been to the Highlands, through floods, ice and hail. I've only had a few big bills recently (total less than grand) plus all the consumables and routine servicing. Whilst in last week told they see plenty with nearly 200k miles. Later ones are more reliable.
Back when the MINI was new it would have been too expensive and possibly seen as too feminine. I was considering the S as nearly new when I bought the Civic. But Coopers S with spec I wanted were mid 20s when Civic was 15.
Actually think Mini is big bargain and can't see well looked after ones getting much cheaper. They are old but look around as so much variation. Mine has cruise control and part leather that looks new but others can be very tatty. They are both old now so performance ones will be bought by enthusiasts as the masses get lease deals on 500s etc. The Civic because it will be totally bulit proof, might hold value relatively, but can see why they are cheap and getting cheaper. Unless you need the space the Cooper is so much better. The supercharged one would be great but standard Coopers are great compromise for the money.
Edited by shost on Thursday 13th September 15:01
shost said:
I used to have an 2007 FN2. Owned it for three years as year old ex dealer car. Whilst looking and sounding great it was not fun to drive being one dimensional and numb on limit. But it was super practical and was an event to drive and cruise around in and easily did daily duties. (Also seemed to bit hit with ladies too)
Now have a late 2006 first gen Cooper, not the S as wanted cheap to run second car. Bought it for peanuts with 95k miles. Had it nearly three years and put another 30k on it. No plans to sell it. It's totally won me over. Handling on road and track is brilliant. Can be thrashed around at road speeds and be fun. No where as practical- basically a two seater with optional big boot with seats down. It's not been totally problem free but most things I've been able to fix myself and learned a lot doing it. I've really used mine - its been on a stage of Wales Rally GB, done several trackdays, been to the Highlands, through floods, ice and hail. I've only had a few big bills recently (total less than grand) plus all the consumables and routine servicing. Whilst in last week told they see plenty with nearly 200k miles. Later ones are more reliable.
Back when the MINI was new it would have been too expensive and possibly seen as too feminine. I was considering the S as nearly new when I bought the Civic. But Coopers S with spec I wanted were mid 20s when Civic was 15.
Actually think Mini is big bargain and can't see well looked after ones getting much cheaper. The Civic because it will be totally bulit proof I'd have thought but unless you need the space the Cooper is so much better.
Did you have any issues on the gearbox? Looking for a cheap runabout and wont be able to get a good R53 in budget but loads of standard Coopers. Now have a late 2006 first gen Cooper, not the S as wanted cheap to run second car. Bought it for peanuts with 95k miles. Had it nearly three years and put another 30k on it. No plans to sell it. It's totally won me over. Handling on road and track is brilliant. Can be thrashed around at road speeds and be fun. No where as practical- basically a two seater with optional big boot with seats down. It's not been totally problem free but most things I've been able to fix myself and learned a lot doing it. I've really used mine - its been on a stage of Wales Rally GB, done several trackdays, been to the Highlands, through floods, ice and hail. I've only had a few big bills recently (total less than grand) plus all the consumables and routine servicing. Whilst in last week told they see plenty with nearly 200k miles. Later ones are more reliable.
Back when the MINI was new it would have been too expensive and possibly seen as too feminine. I was considering the S as nearly new when I bought the Civic. But Coopers S with spec I wanted were mid 20s when Civic was 15.
Actually think Mini is big bargain and can't see well looked after ones getting much cheaper. The Civic because it will be totally bulit proof I'd have thought but unless you need the space the Cooper is so much better.
The later post 2004/5 cars have Getrag boxes. Mine is fine. It's the early ones that have the Midlands boxes that apparently are weaker.
Mine recently needed new gear links as popped off. But I was able to fix it at the road side a few times with gaffer tape before forking out for proper repair.
The engine has minor oil leaks (doesn't drip), coolant goes missing but nothing that stops it running
Mine recently needed new gear links as popped off. But I was able to fix it at the road side a few times with gaffer tape before forking out for proper repair.
The engine has minor oil leaks (doesn't drip), coolant goes missing but nothing that stops it running
ruprechtmonkeyboy said:
Not sure what a Cooper S is like but the ride on the FN2 Type R is truly awful. I read about it in motoring reviews and online but thought I'd have a look at one anyway as they are good value. I got about 100m down the road and realised that there was no way I could live with it!
I have the fn2 and don't find the ride that bad really. Yes its a little crashy in potholed streets but i've never been in a jap car that wasn't? It isn't as frenetic as the EP3 but for a daily i find it better than fine, its quite good. It has typical jap reliability - you get in, turn it on and start it up and it goes. Never done anything different. The interior is a step up i think from the usual Jap fair but still nowhere "lovely" to sit. But the seats are comfortable and i don't mind the driving position or pedal layout.
Overall it continues to be a good daily driver. Fuel consumption is fairly good. And when you want to have a bit of fun you can with hitting vtec. But you can drive it sedately and quietly and not really notice.
The best part is the space. My wife can have the rear seat all way back and my kids still have room to stretch their legs. Its the only car they've not complained about leg room. The rear bench folds entirely flat for great rear space and even up the boot is nice size and deep with it. The cabin feels airy and despite the rear spoiler obsuring the rear view the is a lot of glass to see out of. Feels quite open.
Insurance is cheap. I pay just over 300 a year. tax is relatively ok for a 2.0 litre petrol.
They aren't as poised as the ep3 but i think the bad press they receive is justified and given prices so low a bit of a bargain.
£5k will get you an early r56. Avoid them. The N14 engine used up to 2010 is a piece of s
t. Pre 2006 was the r53 which uses a Chrysler supercharged engine.
I've just bought a 2002 cooper s with 89k miles and FSH. It's got zero extras (who the hell wants 16 year old tech anyway) and cost 1500 English pounds. It's a very entertaining and characterful little car which pulls stronger than the figures suggest. They do have their issues but in general the engines seem to be pretty strong with loads in the FB group on well over 100k. However, with any car of this age you need to be good on the spanners or prepared to fork out for the odd repair. Many of the parts will be old.
The fn2 will be bomb proof. I had one after my ep3 years ago but wished I'd kept the ep3. It was just more fun.
t. Pre 2006 was the r53 which uses a Chrysler supercharged engine.I've just bought a 2002 cooper s with 89k miles and FSH. It's got zero extras (who the hell wants 16 year old tech anyway) and cost 1500 English pounds. It's a very entertaining and characterful little car which pulls stronger than the figures suggest. They do have their issues but in general the engines seem to be pretty strong with loads in the FB group on well over 100k. However, with any car of this age you need to be good on the spanners or prepared to fork out for the odd repair. Many of the parts will be old.
The fn2 will be bomb proof. I had one after my ep3 years ago but wished I'd kept the ep3. It was just more fun.
Early new shape Minis are going rusty but apart from that hold up quite well, cooper s is bad on fuel though and build quality is poor.
Ive had a FN2 for a short time, it was the worst riding car ive had, apart from being a passenger in the rear R53 JCW mini.
The FN2 looked good and liked the interior, but was boring and felt slow to be honest, i sold it and bought a Mini Clubman JCW and i love that.
Id rather buy a r26 megane or a 182 with your budget
Ive had a FN2 for a short time, it was the worst riding car ive had, apart from being a passenger in the rear R53 JCW mini.
The FN2 looked good and liked the interior, but was boring and felt slow to be honest, i sold it and bought a Mini Clubman JCW and i love that.
Id rather buy a r26 megane or a 182 with your budget
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