which 3-5k 90s luxo-tourer? BMW E39, Merc W124, Volvo 960?
Discussion
long time listener, first time caller, i’m looking for an automatic, wood-and-leather-lined, 6 cylinder cocoon for weekend distance use with enough boot space to inflate a mattress for occasionally pulling over to wake up to nice scenery (I'm 6ft tall and this is a deal-breaker so no E38s or LS400s, please)
i’d like PH input because… well, it’s just the best there is…
regarding the ‘logic’ behind the options:
i sold my E30 318is when i was too young to know better so i’d like to find love again, and i do appreciate 4 cylinders but only when they’re used properly
i had a Landcruiser FJ45 Troopcarrier in Oz as a (literally) go anywhere camper, so I’m not ruling out a Discovery or similar but I don’t know enough about them to consider one yet
my Jaguar X308 XJ Sport was beautiful and, as a driving experience with the low-slung cockpit, and the 3.2 V8, was very much what i’d like to recreate, just in touring form. i did test an X-Type but it wasn't as wafty as i hoped
i had an E34 525iA tourer but didn’t get on with the driving position (too upright) or the autobox (felt underpowered), although it never got a fair crack as it died before i got it home, in a spectacular spin on the last leg from Edinburgh to London (not my fault)
i’m open to persuasion on the number of cylinders or the gearbox if the drive is satisfying enough, by which i mean relaxing rather than hooning, although i don’t mind if it handles well, but am looking for something practical and satisfying enough to fall in love with and maintain properly, although i’d obviously rather avoid a money pit where possible
i suspect it will take time to home in on something that’s worth looking after to do the mileage it was designed for so, in the interim, i’m considering three options at the budget end of the market to test the water [i know i’m not comparing like with like, two are 4cyl and two are manual) but that’s life, and spells out why it’ll take time to find the right one]:
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1056658
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1048793
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
anyway, i wondered if you’d like to help me refine my thoughts
i’d like PH input because… well, it’s just the best there is…
regarding the ‘logic’ behind the options:
i sold my E30 318is when i was too young to know better so i’d like to find love again, and i do appreciate 4 cylinders but only when they’re used properly
i had a Landcruiser FJ45 Troopcarrier in Oz as a (literally) go anywhere camper, so I’m not ruling out a Discovery or similar but I don’t know enough about them to consider one yet
my Jaguar X308 XJ Sport was beautiful and, as a driving experience with the low-slung cockpit, and the 3.2 V8, was very much what i’d like to recreate, just in touring form. i did test an X-Type but it wasn't as wafty as i hoped
i had an E34 525iA tourer but didn’t get on with the driving position (too upright) or the autobox (felt underpowered), although it never got a fair crack as it died before i got it home, in a spectacular spin on the last leg from Edinburgh to London (not my fault)
i’m open to persuasion on the number of cylinders or the gearbox if the drive is satisfying enough, by which i mean relaxing rather than hooning, although i don’t mind if it handles well, but am looking for something practical and satisfying enough to fall in love with and maintain properly, although i’d obviously rather avoid a money pit where possible
i suspect it will take time to home in on something that’s worth looking after to do the mileage it was designed for so, in the interim, i’m considering three options at the budget end of the market to test the water [i know i’m not comparing like with like, two are 4cyl and two are manual) but that’s life, and spells out why it’ll take time to find the right one]:
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1056658
https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1048793
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
anyway, i wondered if you’d like to help me refine my thoughts
Edited by trevor distance on Sunday 2nd December 16:42
E39 530iAT or even a 528iAT is your best option imo; enough power to comfortably get anywhere and make progress / overtakes / cruise along at a decent pace. Considering their size and comfort they're fun to hustle down lanes and super comfy. Interiors are great if you find the right spec - mine had beige leather and walnut trim which was great, some combos have aged less well though. Absolutely can't fault how they drive; you do however need to go in with your eyes open. They're old cars now and the reputation they had of being unburstable and dependable doesn't quite stack up anymore.
Autoboxes can go pop without warning - recon can be up to £1500, or gamble with a used box for £300. Lots of electronic issues to go wrong - boot releases, dash matrixes, stereo amps, HID ballasts for Xenon equipped cars, window regulators, etc. Coilpacks and MAFs can go but this should be expected for anything at that age. People complain about rust but for a 90's/early 00's car they really aren't bad, just watch out for jacking points, corners of sills and along the doors. Aside from jacking points it's rare to find structural rust, it's normally just cosmetic bubbling. Make sure the cooling system has been refreshed; radiator, expansion tank, water pump, thermostat and thermostat housing else you may find yourself having to sort a blown headgasket. Rocker cover gaskets often leak, sometimes resulting in a cylinder misfire due to oil filling up in the spark plug holes. Rear airbags on the SLS suspension on tourings also often go; airbags pop, compressors fail and modules fail. Not the most expensive thing to sort these days though and some people convert to springs, though this is more complex than people realise due to tourings running a different subframe to saloons and relatively few UK tourings being equipped without SLS.
I've had two cheap E39 tourings; one 530d and one 530i, both early facelifts. Both had their issues, but the 530i never left me on the side of the road; the 530d often did, and I'd recommend avoiding as any savings you have in fuel are quickly wiped out the second you need to pay out for a new turbo / injectors / fuel pump / ecu / gearbox (which is weaker than the petrol ones).
If you want stalwart reliability, then go for a 960 and avoid the turbo cars. E39 tourings are lovely though, and would recommend one as a weekend car - to me they still feel special inside and M54s / M52s are lovely engines.
Autoboxes can go pop without warning - recon can be up to £1500, or gamble with a used box for £300. Lots of electronic issues to go wrong - boot releases, dash matrixes, stereo amps, HID ballasts for Xenon equipped cars, window regulators, etc. Coilpacks and MAFs can go but this should be expected for anything at that age. People complain about rust but for a 90's/early 00's car they really aren't bad, just watch out for jacking points, corners of sills and along the doors. Aside from jacking points it's rare to find structural rust, it's normally just cosmetic bubbling. Make sure the cooling system has been refreshed; radiator, expansion tank, water pump, thermostat and thermostat housing else you may find yourself having to sort a blown headgasket. Rocker cover gaskets often leak, sometimes resulting in a cylinder misfire due to oil filling up in the spark plug holes. Rear airbags on the SLS suspension on tourings also often go; airbags pop, compressors fail and modules fail. Not the most expensive thing to sort these days though and some people convert to springs, though this is more complex than people realise due to tourings running a different subframe to saloons and relatively few UK tourings being equipped without SLS.
I've had two cheap E39 tourings; one 530d and one 530i, both early facelifts. Both had their issues, but the 530i never left me on the side of the road; the 530d often did, and I'd recommend avoiding as any savings you have in fuel are quickly wiped out the second you need to pay out for a new turbo / injectors / fuel pump / ecu / gearbox (which is weaker than the petrol ones).
If you want stalwart reliability, then go for a 960 and avoid the turbo cars. E39 tourings are lovely though, and would recommend one as a weekend car - to me they still feel special inside and M54s / M52s are lovely engines.
Edited by Gooly on Sunday 2nd December 17:04
Well as I've been a serial BMW owner since 2005 I'm probably biased (on numbers 5 and 6 at present) but of the 3 links you've posted that E39 interior looks by far the nicest place to spend time on longer trips!
My 2 are both from 2006, and while I'll admit they have occasional issues any car 12 or more years old probably will!
I have had 3 Mercs in the past (W123, W201 and W202) and they all had some issues too!
If you found an E34 525iA felt underpowered you really don't want a W124 200 auto - but a 230E would probably be OK (a mate had one for a few years).
FWIW one of my current BMWs is an E91 325i that I bought in February for just under the bottom of the budget in your heading and I'm really pleased with it, even if it is on 137K miles (it does have full BMW SH though).
You probably need to try to drive a few of your options to see what would fit the bill best - good luck anyway!
My 2 are both from 2006, and while I'll admit they have occasional issues any car 12 or more years old probably will!
I have had 3 Mercs in the past (W123, W201 and W202) and they all had some issues too!
If you found an E34 525iA felt underpowered you really don't want a W124 200 auto - but a 230E would probably be OK (a mate had one for a few years).
FWIW one of my current BMWs is an E91 325i that I bought in February for just under the bottom of the budget in your heading and I'm really pleased with it, even if it is on 137K miles (it does have full BMW SH though).
You probably need to try to drive a few of your options to see what would fit the bill best - good luck anyway!
This update is long overdue but, as a minimum, I want to finally acknowledge the helpful responses I received to my original post.
For what it's worth, I came very close to buying the E39 525i and will probably finally scratch the itch one day but, due to problems with the seller and a persistent ABS warning light, and based on a random phone call with someone who knew someone, I ended up buying what looked like Robocop's off-duty wagon as a stop-gap, a Volvo 940, manual, 2.0 non turbo with 10 months MOT for £700:
https://imgur.com/a/EyVzDSl
My local specialist gave it a service and said that, in spite of the 243k on its non-original clock, it was as solid as the bodywork looked, and I promptly put 3k miles on it over the next couple of months.
I took it all over the UK without it missing a beat, although it didn't enjoy motorway speeds, being painfully underpowered and whining about it.
However, for more local work, it wafted around and swallowed furniture the way everyone said it would, all the while handling like a much smaller car than it had any right to.
As a result, I briefly considered upgrading to a 960 before the universe delivered a 1995 W124/S124 280 TE auto w/ FMBSH, owned by a Mercedes technician down the road, with a replaced gearbox, 202k on the clock and 9 months MOT for £1600:
https://imgur.com/a/W9hbnQI
I grabbed it, fell instantly in love, and haven't looked back.
It's an absolute pleasure to drive, the smooth 6 cylinder / auto box combination rewarding a relaxed approach, and is just as happy cruising on motorways as it is drifting around town, but most of all it loves winding with spirit along the long, undulating country roads of its new home in Scotland.
It's infinitely more refined than the Volvo was, feeling rock-solid and well-insulated, the cockpit being a tastefully relaxed affair, the single wiper blade strangely hypnotic, and the sheer practicality of the well-thought out 7 seat arrangement never ceasing to amaze me.
I've slept with company in the back of the flat and spacious boot a few times now, and am hard-pressed to find fault with it.
Assuming it gets through the MOT the way my mechanic says it will, it'll be getting a fresh sound system and a luggage cover as my way of saying that I look forward to navigating with a 3-pointed star in my field of view for long as I can.
For what it's worth, I came very close to buying the E39 525i and will probably finally scratch the itch one day but, due to problems with the seller and a persistent ABS warning light, and based on a random phone call with someone who knew someone, I ended up buying what looked like Robocop's off-duty wagon as a stop-gap, a Volvo 940, manual, 2.0 non turbo with 10 months MOT for £700:
https://imgur.com/a/EyVzDSl
My local specialist gave it a service and said that, in spite of the 243k on its non-original clock, it was as solid as the bodywork looked, and I promptly put 3k miles on it over the next couple of months.
I took it all over the UK without it missing a beat, although it didn't enjoy motorway speeds, being painfully underpowered and whining about it.
However, for more local work, it wafted around and swallowed furniture the way everyone said it would, all the while handling like a much smaller car than it had any right to.
As a result, I briefly considered upgrading to a 960 before the universe delivered a 1995 W124/S124 280 TE auto w/ FMBSH, owned by a Mercedes technician down the road, with a replaced gearbox, 202k on the clock and 9 months MOT for £1600:
https://imgur.com/a/W9hbnQI
I grabbed it, fell instantly in love, and haven't looked back.
It's an absolute pleasure to drive, the smooth 6 cylinder / auto box combination rewarding a relaxed approach, and is just as happy cruising on motorways as it is drifting around town, but most of all it loves winding with spirit along the long, undulating country roads of its new home in Scotland.
It's infinitely more refined than the Volvo was, feeling rock-solid and well-insulated, the cockpit being a tastefully relaxed affair, the single wiper blade strangely hypnotic, and the sheer practicality of the well-thought out 7 seat arrangement never ceasing to amaze me.
I've slept with company in the back of the flat and spacious boot a few times now, and am hard-pressed to find fault with it.
Assuming it gets through the MOT the way my mechanic says it will, it'll be getting a fresh sound system and a luggage cover as my way of saying that I look forward to navigating with a 3-pointed star in my field of view for long as I can.
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