Hot hatch for 20k miles a year?
Discussion
Hi all,
Currently in need of some 'man maths' justification! I commute around 20k miles a year, but the difference compared with other situations like this is that I don't go near a motorway, it's all country B roads. Therefore it's all in the 40-60mph range rather than sat at higher revs at 70ish. Also, it means I can fully utilise the fun handling of a hot hatch! Over the years I've flipped between diesel and petrol, including a mk7 Fiesta ST, a diesel mk7 Fiesta, a Clio 200 EDC and now a Scirocco diesel.
In order to put my car swapping to bed, I need the best mix of fun and frugality possible, along with some good old fashioned man math style justification. When I had the Fiesta I could relatively easily get 38/39 mpg out of it every day, and that was brand new, so don't know if in time it would've got better or not. For reference, the Scirocco does 52. In terms of budget, I'm thinking around 12k, something relatively modern and therefore hopefully with a lot of trouble free life left in it yet! On that note, I've been thinking of the following...
Fiesta ST, Peugeot 208 GTi, Polo GTi. For what it's worth, the firm ride and tight Recaro's of the Fiesta didn't bother me at all, as fortunately I think I've got a couple more years before back problems start becoming something I need to worry about when choosing a car, and pretty much all modern cars are refined and well appointed enough to not be unpleasant places to be for any length of time.
If anyone has any experience of the above, and also any other cars they'd like to throw in the ring, I'm all ears! Also, there's an outside chance I could spend some of that budget on a 2nd car for track days and sunny weekends, but that does complicate things, double the insurance, etc. etc.
Thanks a lot in advance,
Currently in need of some 'man maths' justification! I commute around 20k miles a year, but the difference compared with other situations like this is that I don't go near a motorway, it's all country B roads. Therefore it's all in the 40-60mph range rather than sat at higher revs at 70ish. Also, it means I can fully utilise the fun handling of a hot hatch! Over the years I've flipped between diesel and petrol, including a mk7 Fiesta ST, a diesel mk7 Fiesta, a Clio 200 EDC and now a Scirocco diesel.
In order to put my car swapping to bed, I need the best mix of fun and frugality possible, along with some good old fashioned man math style justification. When I had the Fiesta I could relatively easily get 38/39 mpg out of it every day, and that was brand new, so don't know if in time it would've got better or not. For reference, the Scirocco does 52. In terms of budget, I'm thinking around 12k, something relatively modern and therefore hopefully with a lot of trouble free life left in it yet! On that note, I've been thinking of the following...
Fiesta ST, Peugeot 208 GTi, Polo GTi. For what it's worth, the firm ride and tight Recaro's of the Fiesta didn't bother me at all, as fortunately I think I've got a couple more years before back problems start becoming something I need to worry about when choosing a car, and pretty much all modern cars are refined and well appointed enough to not be unpleasant places to be for any length of time.
If anyone has any experience of the above, and also any other cars they'd like to throw in the ring, I'm all ears! Also, there's an outside chance I could spend some of that budget on a 2nd car for track days and sunny weekends, but that does complicate things, double the insurance, etc. etc.
Thanks a lot in advance,
I recently bought a 2016 polo gti, really enjoyed it so far, the engine is a lot stronger than a fiestas and the ride far more pleasant and the interior has aged a lot better than the fiestas also, cheaper insurance as well (guess it doesn't have the same rep) and hoping residuals better since there isn't a million of them.
Personally not really a fan of hatches. Think I'd be looking more at things like a GT86, MX-5 or even a 370z. Some of the BMW's look fairly interesting too.
Not too sure about mpg claims, you must drive pretty gentle to be getting those averages on B roads, IMO. I know I've certainly not got close to numbers like that unless in something very frugal.
My current daily is a smart ForTwo. It's actually quite fun, nimble and light. Not the quickest by a long shot, but means it is very deployable on the road, without hitting silly speeds all the time. It's averaged 44mpg of mixed use over 24,000 miles so far. Although when on pure B roads and having fun it is more like high 30's.
There is a Brabus version and the Renault badged Twingo GT you could look at. For your money you would be getting an almost new one of either of these.
Not too sure about mpg claims, you must drive pretty gentle to be getting those averages on B roads, IMO. I know I've certainly not got close to numbers like that unless in something very frugal.
My current daily is a smart ForTwo. It's actually quite fun, nimble and light. Not the quickest by a long shot, but means it is very deployable on the road, without hitting silly speeds all the time. It's averaged 44mpg of mixed use over 24,000 miles so far. Although when on pure B roads and having fun it is more like high 30's.
There is a Brabus version and the Renault badged Twingo GT you could look at. For your money you would be getting an almost new one of either of these.
06andiano: Yes, the one thing that's a huge plus point for the Polo is its interior compared to rivals. It's essentially the same as the Golfs, with all the same fixtures and fittings, materials, and general feeling of quality. The mk7 Fiesta is indeed a bit dated and 'budget' by comparison. I'm sure it's also a lot more refined. Perhaps not as exciting, but a good compromise, and as you say, less likely to be nicked possibly too!
300bhp/ton: I take your point, but for what it's worth I'm a big hot hatch fan. As I mentioned, I've had a fair few over the years, and that's not including a couple of Clio 182's I've also had. However, I do like the sound of the GT86, and they're also not the most expensive to run given their sportscar disposition. Should be fairly reliable too! Regarding my mpg figures, those are all calculated rather than the trip computer. It's fairly easy to achieve them when my route is purely B road, with some A road, no stop start traffic and only one small town encountered on the way. I think I only see 2 sets of traffic lights on the whole journey, and cruising at 50/60 is very economical.
I find myself weirdly drawn to a Brabus Smart, but also the Twingo GT is intriguing too. I actually work for Renault, so perhaps there's some discount available on something there!
ninjag: Thanks for that, I'll confess to not knowing about a V40 with some Polestar tweaking, that could be very interesting! I'm struggling to find anything out there on the market so will keep digging, especially if I can get one in that amazing light blue!
300bhp/ton: I take your point, but for what it's worth I'm a big hot hatch fan. As I mentioned, I've had a fair few over the years, and that's not including a couple of Clio 182's I've also had. However, I do like the sound of the GT86, and they're also not the most expensive to run given their sportscar disposition. Should be fairly reliable too! Regarding my mpg figures, those are all calculated rather than the trip computer. It's fairly easy to achieve them when my route is purely B road, with some A road, no stop start traffic and only one small town encountered on the way. I think I only see 2 sets of traffic lights on the whole journey, and cruising at 50/60 is very economical.
I find myself weirdly drawn to a Brabus Smart, but also the Twingo GT is intriguing too. I actually work for Renault, so perhaps there's some discount available on something there!
ninjag: Thanks for that, I'll confess to not knowing about a V40 with some Polestar tweaking, that could be very interesting! I'm struggling to find anything out there on the market so will keep digging, especially if I can get one in that amazing light blue!
OP, have a look at my profile - I've had lots of hot hatches - ask away if you want to know anything specific. I've had a brand new 208 GTI for a couple of weeks now, and prior to that a Fiesta ST.
I'm in my 30s so youngish but found the seats in the Fiesta gave me really bad backache. It's not something you pick up on a 30 minute thrash of a test drive. I've heard it said by others too. Shame, as they look great and heat up quicker and hotter than you'd think possible.
I'm in my 30s so youngish but found the seats in the Fiesta gave me really bad backache. It's not something you pick up on a 30 minute thrash of a test drive. I've heard it said by others too. Shame, as they look great and heat up quicker and hotter than you'd think possible.
My alternate picks would be this lot:
The sensible option is the Kia Cee'd/Pro Cee'd GT Tech you can get one with 4 years worth of warranty left:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Alfa Giulietta Cloverleaf
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Clio RS 200 Nav
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
If you were thinking of the Polo (although it won't be a patch on the Clio above) then I'd say go for the 1.8T Ibiza Cupra instead:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Rather than the Fiesta I'd go for Focus in ST-3 spec:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
The sensible option is the Kia Cee'd/Pro Cee'd GT Tech you can get one with 4 years worth of warranty left:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Alfa Giulietta Cloverleaf
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Clio RS 200 Nav
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
If you were thinking of the Polo (although it won't be a patch on the Clio above) then I'd say go for the 1.8T Ibiza Cupra instead:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Rather than the Fiesta I'd go for Focus in ST-3 spec:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
thenortherner said:
OP, have a look at my profile - I've had lots of hot hatches - ask away if you want to know anything specific. I've had a brand new 208 GTI for a couple of weeks now, and prior to that a Fiesta ST.
I'm in my 30s so youngish but found the seats in the Fiesta gave me really bad backache. It's not something you pick up on a 30 minute thrash of a test drive. I've heard it said by others too. Shame, as they look great and heat up quicker and hotter than you'd think possible.
The perfect man to speak to then! My immediate questions are fairly boring, but how do you find the mpg of the 208 in comparison? Might be hard to say in the initial 'honeymoon' period though I suppose! Second, how do you find the interior and general quality? The Fiesta interior was never particularly great, but it felt solid enough. As I say, I did do my commute in an ST for a bit and fortunately had no issue with the Recaros.I'm in my 30s so youngish but found the seats in the Fiesta gave me really bad backache. It's not something you pick up on a 30 minute thrash of a test drive. I've heard it said by others too. Shame, as they look great and heat up quicker and hotter than you'd think possible.
hepy said:
But wasn't the Fiesta ST great OP?
Would have mine back tomorrow, and I did 20k miles a year in it, the seats are so comfy.
Indeed, I'd probably have mine back tomorrow too! Alas, I can't help but think it'd be admitting defeat to go back, and having seen the interior of the new ST, I'm not sure I could live with the dated one in the mk7 for any length of time. Why did you change, and what did you end up with, if you don't mind me asking?!Would have mine back tomorrow, and I did 20k miles a year in it, the seats are so comfy.
rustyuk said:
You haven't mentioned a budget but at 20k a year I would be looking at a Merc A250 or a Golf GTi, if the budget allows.
I did 40k in a Megane RS Cup and as much as I loved the car the interiors of the Renaults are shocking and seem to have gotten worse.
Apologies, the budget was buried in the text, but not keen on going much beyond 12k, so the Merc is a little out of reach! Golf GTi of some variety is still an interesting idea, I suppose it doesn't need to be a small car like a Polo, so will see what my budget might bring there...I do prefer the Golf, generally.I did 40k in a Megane RS Cup and as much as I loved the car the interiors of the Renaults are shocking and seem to have gotten worse.
Finally, ZX10, thank you for all your efforts there! I must admit I hadn't considered Kia as doing anything too interesting, but that Cee'd is a pretty nice looking car, and well appointed too. I have briefly owned one of those Clio's and the mpg was appalling for the performance on offer, far worse than the ST unfortunately, otherwise I quite liked it. Focus certainly gives you more for your money, especially as it isn't too much more than a Fiesta. Interestingly, someone at work does basically the same commute in an Ibiza Cupra Bocanegra, and they have done for years, so clearly capable of it and not ruining you, physically and financially!
deed, I'd probably have mine back tomorrow too! Alas, I can't help but think it'd be admitting defeat to go back, and having seen the interior of the new ST, I'm not sure I could live with the dated one in the mk7 for any length of time. Why did you change, and what did you end up with, if you don't mind me asking?!
I changed to a Leon Cupra 4drive 300. Nice car, and my wife loves it, but it’s just not as good as the ST, not as economical either. Wish I had gone for the manual hatchback instead and saved a bit of cash.
The ST was the closest thing to a motorbike I have ever driven.
I changed to a Leon Cupra 4drive 300. Nice car, and my wife loves it, but it’s just not as good as the ST, not as economical either. Wish I had gone for the manual hatchback instead and saved a bit of cash.
The ST was the closest thing to a motorbike I have ever driven.
ChrisRF1 said:
Apologies, the budget was buried in the text, but not keen on going much beyond 12k, so the Merc is a little out of reach! Golf GTi of some variety is still an interesting idea, I suppose it doesn't need to be a small car like a Polo, so will see what my budget might bring there...I do prefer the Golf, generally.
Finally, ZX10, thank you for all your efforts there! I must admit I hadn't considered Kia as doing anything too interesting, but that Cee'd is a pretty nice looking car, and well appointed too. I have briefly owned one of those Clio's and the mpg was appalling for the performance on offer, far worse than the ST unfortunately, otherwise I quite liked it. Focus certainly gives you more for your money, especially as it isn't too much more than a Fiesta. Interestingly, someone at work does basically the same commute in an Ibiza Cupra Bocanegra, and they have done for years, so clearly capable of it and not ruining you, physically and financially!
The Cee'd is a good car handling is similar to the Polo but you have more space, the Giulietta is another good car but I'd probably go for the ST.Finally, ZX10, thank you for all your efforts there! I must admit I hadn't considered Kia as doing anything too interesting, but that Cee'd is a pretty nice looking car, and well appointed too. I have briefly owned one of those Clio's and the mpg was appalling for the performance on offer, far worse than the ST unfortunately, otherwise I quite liked it. Focus certainly gives you more for your money, especially as it isn't too much more than a Fiesta. Interestingly, someone at work does basically the same commute in an Ibiza Cupra Bocanegra, and they have done for years, so clearly capable of it and not ruining you, physically and financially!
A leftfield option is the Mazda3 MPS
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
I'll throw this in. I do similar mileage to you, a little more in fact. I lease my car but I am probably going to buy a used car next year when it goes back and I think one of these would be the ideal mix of economy, practicality, speed, handling and comfort. That said you would need to go above £12k to get one in the spec I would want but this one isn't bad for £12k really -
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2014-BMW-1-Series-125D-...
f:0
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2014-BMW-1-Series-125D-...
f:0I did a 4 year PCP on a brand new 125d back when I had a 15k a year commute.
Lasted 18 months. Could not get out of it quick enough. Steering s like trying to f
k with a limp dick and it doesn't feel anywhere near as quick as the figures suggest. It broke twice in the 18 months I had it and the 320d courtesy car I got felt quicker. Final straw was when it went in for a service and they gave me a 1.6d countryman for the day..... it was better to drive in every single way.
Lasted 18 months. Could not get out of it quick enough. Steering s like trying to f
k with a limp dick and it doesn't feel anywhere near as quick as the figures suggest. It broke twice in the 18 months I had it and the 320d courtesy car I got felt quicker. Final straw was when it went in for a service and they gave me a 1.6d countryman for the day..... it was better to drive in every single way.nunpuncher said:
I did a 4 year PCP on a brand new 125d back when I had a 15k a year commute.
Lasted 18 months. Could not get out of it quick enough. Steering s like trying to fk with a limp dick and it doesn't feel anywhere near as quick as the figures suggest. It broke twice in the 18 months I had it and the 320d courtesy car I got felt quicker. Final straw was when it went in for a service and they gave me a 1.6d countryman for the day..... it was better to drive in every single way.
I have to admit I had a test drive in one of the newer ones and didn’t entirely see what all the fuss was about either. Interior was dissapointing, and it didn’t drive any better than most other small hatches. Out of interest, what did you end up swapping it for?Lasted 18 months. Could not get out of it quick enough. Steering s like trying to f
k with a limp dick and it doesn't feel anywhere near as quick as the figures suggest. It broke twice in the 18 months I had it and the 320d courtesy car I got felt quicker. Final straw was when it went in for a service and they gave me a 1.6d countryman for the day..... it was better to drive in every single way.If I was spending £12K on a hot hatch for this, my money would be going on a 208 GTI by Peugeot Sport. Those last three words are important, as they get you a mechanical limited-slip differential. Would recommend having a read of my time with one and how I found it compared to a ST200 here: https://www.pistonheads.com/regulars/ph-fleet/peug...
I averaged 38mpg over my time with the car and loved every minute of it! If I'm being a tart, the only thing I missed not having was heated seats.
I averaged 38mpg over my time with the car and loved every minute of it! If I'm being a tart, the only thing I missed not having was heated seats.
ChrisRF1 said:
06andiano: Yes, the one thing that's a huge plus point for the Polo is its interior compared to rivals. It's essentially the same as the Golfs, with all the same fixtures and fittings, materials, and general feeling of quality. The mk7 Fiesta is indeed a bit dated and 'budget' by comparison. I'm sure it's also a lot more refined. Perhaps not as exciting, but a good compromise, and as you say, less likely to be nicked possibly too!
300bhp/ton: I take your point, but for what it's worth I'm a big hot hatch fan. As I mentioned, I've had a fair few over the years, and that's not including a couple of Clio 182's I've also had. However, I do like the sound of the GT86, and they're also not the most expensive to run given their sportscar disposition. Should be fairly reliable too! Regarding my mpg figures, those are all calculated rather than the trip computer. It's fairly easy to achieve them when my route is purely B road, with some A road, no stop start traffic and only one small town encountered on the way. I think I only see 2 sets of traffic lights on the whole journey, and cruising at 50/60 is very economical.
I find myself weirdly drawn to a Brabus Smart, but also the Twingo GT is intriguing too. I actually work for Renault, so perhaps there's some discount available on something there!
ninjag: Thanks for that, I'll confess to not knowing about a V40 with some Polestar tweaking, that could be very interesting! I'm struggling to find anything out there on the market so will keep digging, especially if I can get one in that amazing light blue!
I used to have a GT86, the official MPG figures are very pessimistic compared to most other cars - you'll easily beat them by the sounds of it300bhp/ton: I take your point, but for what it's worth I'm a big hot hatch fan. As I mentioned, I've had a fair few over the years, and that's not including a couple of Clio 182's I've also had. However, I do like the sound of the GT86, and they're also not the most expensive to run given their sportscar disposition. Should be fairly reliable too! Regarding my mpg figures, those are all calculated rather than the trip computer. It's fairly easy to achieve them when my route is purely B road, with some A road, no stop start traffic and only one small town encountered on the way. I think I only see 2 sets of traffic lights on the whole journey, and cruising at 50/60 is very economical.
I find myself weirdly drawn to a Brabus Smart, but also the Twingo GT is intriguing too. I actually work for Renault, so perhaps there's some discount available on something there!
ninjag: Thanks for that, I'll confess to not knowing about a V40 with some Polestar tweaking, that could be very interesting! I'm struggling to find anything out there on the market so will keep digging, especially if I can get one in that amazing light blue!
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