"New" Up! GTi vs. "Used" mk7 Fiesta ST

[white_goodman]

I probably need to sort out a "new" vehicle for my wife first but I'm more excited about my next vehicle and I keep coming back to these two options. I'm after a fun and economical commuter to replace my fun but ageing 2009 MINI Cooper. I need to accommodate my kids occasionally, so sadly something like a GT86/BRZ won't work but they won't be in it often enough for me to require a 5 door. A newer MINI Cooper/Cooper S looks like a solid option on paper but I'm not a fan of where they have gone with the styling on the newer models and fancy something a bit different.

The Up! GTi has to be the most interesting new car you can buy for 14k. I'd just go with a 3 door and don't really see the need to add on any options. Not sure if there are any good finance deals going on these at the moment and where the waiting time is at. Certainly, in terms of "showroom appeal", a new VW GTi has it in spades and has that instant "want one" factor but is it just a cynical use of the GTi badge and will it be any quicker or as fun/more fun than my MINI?

Or...for similar money, I could get a very lightly used mk7 Fiesta ST. I'd love a mk8 but sadly out of my budget and the mk7 is by all accounts still a very good and appealing hot hatch. Obviously, it'll be in a different league in terms of performance to the Up! (a 205 GTi 1.9+, in comparison to a 205 GTi 1.6 if you will). My ideal spec would probably be a Spirit Blue ST-2. However, it will of course be a generation older than the Up! inside, more ubiquitous and potentially higher insurance and more of a theft target than the Up! The extra performance would be most welcome but the combination of affordable fun and decent fuel economy for my usage more important than outright pace.

I've driven "vanilla" variants of both cars and like both but which would be the one to go for at c.14k?

[kieranblenk]

I'd be going for a lightly used Suzuki Swift Sport as a halfway house between the two, fantastic engine and stuffed with kit. Loads available for similar money to a new Up GTI. It's a five door but the back handles are incorporated into the C pillar.

Out of the two suggested I'd go for the VW myself though.

Edited by kieranblenk on Tuesday 9th April 20:27

[Tophatron]

I'd double check but the option of a new Up GTi might not be possible. Word is VW have shut the order book on them, with the possibility it might never reopen as a new Up is due next year.

There might be some cars still in the dealer system though, so it could be worth deciding soon if you want to secure one.

If it's true, it should certainly help the future residuals!

FWIW I bought one and love it!

[white_goodman]

kieranblenk said:

I'd be going for a lightly used Suzuki Swift Sport as a halfway house between the two, fantastic engine and stuffed with kit. Loads available for similar money to a new Up GTI. It's a five door but the back handles are incorporated into the C pillar.

Out of the two suggested I'd go for the VW myself though.

Edited by kieranblenk on Tuesday 9th April 20:27

Thanks! Not a bad shout on the Suzuki actually. I was always a fan of the mk1/2 SSS. A good friend still has his mk1 (coming up to 7 years now), it has been very reliable and I would say it has a better engine than my Cooper but my Cooper is more refined. In terms of handling, not much in it. My only "beef" with the new SSS was that they went a bit upmarket on the pricing without giving it Fiesta ST levels of power. They either needed to raise their game in the power stakes or lose some kit and make it more Up! GTi in terms of pricing IMHO. Irrelevant, if you can pick one up for 14k now though and it does fall neatly between the two in terms of power/size. It does look a little "mumsy" though and our local Suzuki dealership shut down a few years ago, so I'd need to find out where my closest one is now.

Incidentally, why would you take the VW over the Ford?

[essdaytwelve]

Tophatron said:

I'd double check but the option of a new Up GTi might not be possible. Word is VW have shut the order book on them, with the possibility it might never reopen as a new Up is due next year.

There might be some cars still in the dealer system though, so it could be worth deciding soon if you want to secure one.

If it's true, it should certainly help the future residuals!

FWIW I bought one and love it!

Plenty being demoed at VW dealerships

[white_goodman]

essdaytwelve said:

Plenty being demoed at VW dealerships

Yeah, an ex-demo wouldn't be the end of the world if it's the right car. I just thought that they might have some attractive finance deals on new ones.

[ZX10R NIN]

What about the 208 GTI it's a smidge softer than the ST but not much less fun they come loaded with kit & at 14k you'll get a 2016 PS GTI:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Clio RS 220 Trophy

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Abarth 695

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Swift Sport with the Turbo engine:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

From the list above I'd take the Clio first (whilst it's not the sharpest it's a very good car & in Trophy form comes loaded with kit) with the PS 208 in second with the Swift in Third if I had to include your two options the ST would be second with the other two being bumped down & the Up not getting a look in.

All the above are very good cars having driven a few Up GTI's I have to say I don't get what the fuss is about if you're looking for fun then I'd be looking elsewhere, don't get me wrong it's not a bad steer but I'd be getting a Zetec S 140 Fiesta first if fun was my main priority.

I forgot to add my leftfield choice which pretty much ticks all of your boxes as being an affordable fun three door steer that'll have sensible running costs with all the spec you'd want, aligned with decent handling then this car is it:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Plus you'll have 4+ years worth of warranty left which is handy should you have any issues.

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Wednesday 10th April 10:15

[kieranblenk]

white_goodman said:

kieranblenk said:

I'd be going for a lightly used Suzuki Swift Sport as a halfway house between the two, fantastic engine and stuffed with kit. Loads available for similar money to a new Up GTI. It's a five door but the back handles are incorporated into the C pillar.

Out of the two suggested I'd go for the VW myself though.

Edited by kieranblenk on Tuesday 9th April 20:27

Thanks! Not a bad shout on the Suzuki actually. I was always a fan of the mk1/2 SSS. A good friend still has his mk1 (coming up to 7 years now), it has been very reliable and I would say it has a better engine than my Cooper but my Cooper is more refined. In terms of handling, not much in it. My only "beef" with the new SSS was that they went a bit upmarket on the pricing without giving it Fiesta ST levels of power. They either needed to raise their game in the power stakes or lose some kit and make it more Up! GTi in terms of pricing IMHO. Irrelevant, if you can pick one up for 14k now though and it does fall neatly between the two in terms of power/size. It does look a little "mumsy" though and our local Suzuki dealership shut down a few years ago, so I'd need to find out where my closest one is now.

Incidentally, why would you take the VW over the Ford?

I'd choose the VW because it feels more modern and better quality inside and in my eyes the simple design works better - plus the fact there's not many GTIs on the road yet works in its favour. There's no doubt the ST is a great car but for me the VW is the better all rounder.

[browna]

Shirley your kids could squeeze into a GT86 for the odd trip? that would be my choice! that or prob the fiesta st.

[acme]

I've recently bought a last of the line MK7 ST and am loving having a fun car as a daily. It's everything you read about, fun, engaging, quick and with the sound symposer in place sounds good too.

It's also hard riding at low speeds, but does get better with speed, never crashy but really quite stiff. My main bugbear is the seating position, it really is far too high, and the recaros in particular on the squabs are too tight, and I'm slim.

Age wise I certainly am not the target market, and for some there's the Ford image, not that I give a monkeys, petrolheads totally understand why I got it.

I've not driven an Up but I'd have thought they're a totally different proposition.

[Podie]

The Up is quite a bit smaller than the Fiesta, isn't it?

The Fiesta was also available in 5 door...

[DaveTheRave87]

The up!'s also available with 5 doors.

I've got one and it's a right laugh, quick enough to keep you interested and sounds great too.

It's also really well equipped, with heated (tartan) seats and bluetooth connection to your phone, which runs the infotainment through an app.

I think there's some dealer stock available but I've also heard the rumours about the order book closing for good.

[cuprabob]

When I was in my local dealer last week they had a couple of Up GTIs in stock that they were offering with £1k off, without any negotiation.

Drive both options and just buy the one you like the best.

[Podie]

DaveTheRave87 said:

The up!'s also available with 5 doors.

Never knew that!

[culpz]

Fiesta ST all day for me. The UP! GTI wouldn't get a look in for, as I'm not really a massive fan. The Fiesta has a lot more performance and practicality for the money.

Another vote for a Clio 220 Trophy as an alternative, or even a 200T with a remap gets them to around 240 bhp. Obviously, they are dual-clutch so depends if that's your thing or not.

[DaveTheRave87]

Podie said:

DaveTheRave87 said:

The up!'s also available with 5 doors.

Never knew that!

I'm slightly biased but I think it looks better as a 5 door.

[Podie]

DaveTheRave87 said:

Podie said:

DaveTheRave87 said:

The up!'s also available with 5 doors.

Never knew that!

I'm slightly biased but I think it looks better as a 5 door.

Looks good, but I'd always pick a 3 door for the looks and 5 for the practicality.

[white_goodman]

ZX10R NIN said:

What about the 208 GTI it's a smidge softer than the ST but not much less fun they come loaded with kit & at 14k you'll get a 2016 PS GTI:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Clio RS 220 Trophy

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Abarth 695

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Swift Sport with the Turbo engine:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

From the list above I'd take the Clio first (whilst it's not the sharpest it's a very good car & in Trophy form comes loaded with kit) with the PS 208 in second with the Swift in Third if I had to include your two options the ST would be second with the other two being bumped down & the Up not getting a look in.

All the above are very good cars having driven a few Up GTI's I have to say I don't get what the fuss is about if you're looking for fun then I'd be looking elsewhere, don't get me wrong it's not a bad steer but I'd be getting a Zetec S 140 Fiesta first if fun was my main priority.

I forgot to add my leftfield choice which pretty much ticks all of your boxes as being an affordable fun three door steer that'll have sensible running costs with all the spec you'd want, aligned with decent handling then this car is it:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Plus you'll have 4+ years worth of warranty left which is handy should you have any issues.

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Wednesday 10th April 10:15

Thanks for the positive reviews on both. I guess the best thing to do is try both. The Fiesta not so much of an issue but my local VW dealer doesn't seem to have a GTi right now. I was pretty set on a Fiesta until the Up! was announced at such an attractive price point. Always liked the Up! but just felt that it needed more power to make it interesting, which it seems to have in the GTi. It's a very light car and that engine is used in several bigger cars in the VAG group and not really criticised for being underpowered in them. I would get the 3 door in both, I think that it just looks better (although the mk8 ST look pretty good as a 5 door).

Out of interest, why would you place the Clio above the Fiesta? From my understanding, genearal consensus has always been Fiesta, 208, Clio in that order with the auto gearbox scuppering the fun factor of the Clio somewhat. I actually quite like the look of the car, especially that red one, even if it is a 5 door but for the kind of driving that I do, a manual gearbox would be infinitely preferable. On that note though, I wouldn't mind trying to get my wife into a new Polo GTI instead of the small crossover that she thinks she wants! It seems almost as spacious as a Golf, looks smart and is fast and well-equipped for the money and I think the auto would be great in its capacity as a family car for mostly urban driving and longer journeys.

[Jonesy1972]

From reading on the VW Up! forum, order book is definitely closed on the Up! GTI. Such a shame, as I was looking at ordering one ready for when my current lease on a Scirocco ends. Never driven the the fiesta, but having had a 75bhp Street Up! the GTI was a no brainier for me. The Street Up! handled brilliantly, was cheap to run and imho the design still looks good today. Add the GTi bits and I think it looks fab’! May look at a used one when the time comes.

Jonesy

[keekodog]

I have just swapped the wifes mk7 st for an up gti.
The st was great when you were on it but for the most of the time i found the ride crashy and the build quality poor. Also the seats looked superb but were uncomfortable and too big for the car (couldnt adjust them without opening the door).
Obviously the up doesn’t have the same performance but its performance is more usable and the car has character. So far we are loving it
It also feels bigger inside than the fiesta did