Buying a Sporty German 2nd Hand Car

[b80]

Hi all,

I'm looking to buy a more sporty car to replace my 14 Civic 1.8.

I'm drawn to various German marques - Golf R, S3, 340i, s5 etc

The thing that's putting me off/making me anxious is the web seems to be littered with reports of how unreliable and expensive they are to fix, compared to say Jap cars.

I'd be looking to buy in the 3-5 year old range, with full dealer service history and reasonable mileage for its age.

Are the reports of German unreliability overblown?

If the Civic Type R didmt look so extreme, I'd buy one of them due to the perceived reliability of Honda.

Dealers tell me there isn't much in it between manufacturers reliability these days and theres always a chance of getting a 'lemon' in any brand.

What do you guys reckon and recommend for mitigating the chances of unreliability and getting a 'lemon'?

I really want to get a new car, but I'm anxious about giving up my civic, which has been rock solid, for something that will give me headaches/time in the garage.

Cheers!

[Exige77]

Stay at home.

Do not go out.

There be lemons out there. Many lemons.

[Xcore]

More likely to get stolen then break down...

[rayyan171]

There will be some issues, but it mainly comes with the fact that you are owning a high performance car. The fact is, these cars are simply a lot more complex than your civic, and when there is more that can go wrong, that is when reliability 'decreases'. The civic with its simplicity will maintain that reliability, and the complicated German cars will appear 'unreliable'. What shouldn't be considered is how much you pay for it - the list price of the car dictates its complexity.

The Golf R/S3 DSG boxes can be temperamental, but with the year of car you are buying it is not much of a concern, generally the 7 speed dual clutches these have are fine. Not the smoothest of boxes - they are DCT's after all, and it can show. Must be careful of remaps, gearbox doesn't always like it. 340i is perfectly fine, BMW have had some time to refine the formula and, today, it sits really well now. No real issues anymore, so long as they are properly maintained. S5 is a great alternative too, similar/sometimes better performance than the 340i. Again, DSG gearbox is temperamental, must be checked properly before purchasing. Thermostat likes to go pop, cheap part but expensive to replace, but this can happen to any of the cars mentioned. S5 has very good tuning potential, but again gearbox doesn't always like tuning. Ultimately with any of the cars, if you want to preserve reliability the key is no remaps or at the very most a mild remap that takes easy benefit of the car, with mildly adjusted parameters, and can ultimately benefit MPG.

I also recommend the M140i/M240i, they are rather good cars and not as shouty as the golf R/S3. 340i is a practical M140i with better equipment.

[Mike335i]

Agree with the general consensus above, but the manual gearbox option means more reliability and most still had this choice (bar the S5) 3-5 years ago.

M140i is a good shout. Not aware of any major reliability issues with the B58 engine.

[b80]

I'm 6"2 and found the 1 series cabin to be more cramped that a3 or golf.

I would prefer manual gearbox, as my dad used to work in the trade and keeps going on about how expensive auto boxes are when they go wrong - but he last worked closely with them almost 20 years ago, so no doubt things have changed. Although I did spend a bit of time on honest John forum 3 years ago and they used to hate the vag dsg autos. Its probably time spent on there that contributes to my slight paranoia about it all.

I'd be more comfortable with a lexus and their autos and rep for reliability. Just a shame the is-f is so rare and expensive. the is200 240bhp looks decent, but again appears to be really rare, hardly anything on autotrader.

[Black_S3]

I wouldn’t be scared of a golf r or s3 as they’re largely golf gti’s with the exception of very few parts - not many of which are consumables that aftermarket replacements aren’t widely available for. Anything true M, AMG or RS would concern me for the extra tax at the dealership parts desk but that’s a broad generalisation.

As said above avoid anything remapped, also avoid any of these that covered the miles/time of long life servicing between oil changes, you may also get a clue how many sets of tyres/brake pads it’s been through.

Edited by Black_S3 on Friday 31st May 18:14

[fido]

b80 said:

Dealers tell me there isn't much in it between manufacturers reliability these days and theres always a chance of getting a 'lemon' in any brand.

Whilst the second part is true, some brands will be more reliable (on average) than others and models within that brand will also differ in reliability. Generalising across countries of origin is also true. But if you're buying model X from brand Y then it makes sense to do some research into that particular car and spec - also read about the history of the engines, gearboxes etc. The Honda Civic Type-R you mention uses the nth iteration of the K20 engine which has been improved many times and considered bulletproof in most respects, likewise the EA888 in VAG products.

[ZX10R NIN]

b80 said:

Hi all,

I'm looking to buy a more sporty car to replace my 14 Civic 1.8.

I'm drawn to various German marques - Golf R, S3, 340i, s5 etc

The thing that's putting me off/making me anxious is the web seems to be littered with reports of how unreliable and expensive they are to fix, compared to say Jap cars.

I'd be looking to buy in the 3-5 year old range, with full dealer service history and reasonable mileage for its age.

Are the reports of German unreliability overblown?

If the Civic Type R didmt look so extreme, I'd buy one of them due to the perceived reliability of Honda.

Dealers tell me there isn't much in it between manufacturers reliability these days and theres always a chance of getting a 'lemon' in any brand.

What do you guys reckon and recommend for mitigating the chances of unreliability and getting a 'lemon'?

I really want to get a new car, but I'm anxious about giving up my civic, which has been rock solid, for something that will give me headaches/time in the garage.

Cheers!

There's one the thing your ignoring which is depreciation, as an example a 340i will cost between 21-23k:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Now an IS-F for example will depreciate at a lower rate whilst having similar maintenance costs to the 340i but admittedly the 340i will have lower fuel costs:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

RC-F

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

The RS3 vs S3 although the RS3 will have slightly higher maintenance costs it'll hold it's money better which for me would make the expense worthwhile.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

S3

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

[b80]

ZX10R NIN said:

There's one the thing your ignoring which is depreciation, as an example a 340i will cost between 21-23k:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Now an IS-F for example will depreciate at a lower rate whilst having similar maintenance costs to the 340i but admittedly the 340i will have lower fuel costs:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

RC-F

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

The RS3 vs S3 although the RS3 will have slightly higher maintenance costs it'll hold it's money better which for me would make the expense worthwhile.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

S3

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Interesting take and makes sense. I'm in a fortunate position of having the capital free to purchase a car outright, so in some ways pay more (if needed) could make sense if depreciation is lower.

Do you have any other examples at all of cars that dont depreciate as rapidly?

[ZX10R NIN]

b80 said:

Interesting take and makes sense. I'm in a fortunate position of having the capital free to purchase a car outright, so in some ways pay more (if needed) could make sense if depreciation is lower.

Do you have any other examples at all of cars that don't depreciate as rapidly?

It's simple really you have to look at the Halo models but there is another factor & that's how many were produced, for example M3/4's & C63's depreciate at a higher rate than an RS4/6 ISF because they're more mass produced. So keep an eye on the numbers, also a GS-F is depreciating hard at the moment but will steady off soon people will start to appreciate these as the spiritual successor to the 4.7 Quattroporte (drive one & you'll know what I mean) so that could be a buy but they're over your budget at the moment.

If finance isn't involved then this for me would be a bigger factor in my purchase decision.

IS-F There's no way the first one is worth 10k more than the second but I'd use the second to negotiate down the first

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

M3

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

340i M Sport Shadow Edition

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

RS4

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

S4

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

You get the picture in most cases it's the halo model that makes the most sense financially especially when buying outright.

[anonymous-user]

Exige77 said:

Stay at home.

Do not go out.

There be lemons out there. Many lemons.