Fun small B-road car
Discussion
Hello. Looking for some advice on a car purchase.
I cover 20,000 miles per year, but am lucky enough that the majority of this is on fun “B” type roads, not much city or motorway. I also cover a fair few miles on poorly maintained country lanes and single tracks.
I want to buy new (for the warranty) and have a budget of around £25,000. Desired criteria are: small enough to enjoy on narrow roads, fun at/under the limit and half decent running costs due to mileage. Passenger and luggage space are not of concern.
People have been telling me the GT86 (under budget due to scrappage scheme) is the best for my criteria, and worth the extra running costs over say an MX-5. However seeing words like “oversteer” and “tail-happy fun” come up in reviews is disconcerting. I’m no driving god and not looking to do anything like get the rear end out! Just want to have some enjoyment while driving from A to B. Would a car like the GT86 be “wasted” on me and the MX-5 just as adequate?
Alternatively should I go with something FWD, as I am not looking to exploit any oversteer on a RWD car? i.e. a Fiesta ST.
Any opinions on these cars, or anything else I should take a look at?
Thanks.
I cover 20,000 miles per year, but am lucky enough that the majority of this is on fun “B” type roads, not much city or motorway. I also cover a fair few miles on poorly maintained country lanes and single tracks.
I want to buy new (for the warranty) and have a budget of around £25,000. Desired criteria are: small enough to enjoy on narrow roads, fun at/under the limit and half decent running costs due to mileage. Passenger and luggage space are not of concern.
People have been telling me the GT86 (under budget due to scrappage scheme) is the best for my criteria, and worth the extra running costs over say an MX-5. However seeing words like “oversteer” and “tail-happy fun” come up in reviews is disconcerting. I’m no driving god and not looking to do anything like get the rear end out! Just want to have some enjoyment while driving from A to B. Would a car like the GT86 be “wasted” on me and the MX-5 just as adequate?
Alternatively should I go with something FWD, as I am not looking to exploit any oversteer on a RWD car? i.e. a Fiesta ST.
Any opinions on these cars, or anything else I should take a look at?
Thanks.
No you should definitely get a RWD car. They are much more fun. You don't have to oversteer, but you can practice that in, ahem, quiet places. It's got so much more going for it than just oversteer though, the whole dynamics are different and being pushed (RWD) is more fun than pulled (FWD). I would say the MX5 is less tail happy than the GT86 but I wouldn't let that put you off. Just treat it with respect, slow in fast out, it'll make you a better driver.
ZX10R NIN said:
The GT86 is a fantastic car but you do have to stoke it, I'm not sure I'd want to drive it like that everyday whereas something like the ST with it's extra torque will make the B roads a breeze.
But he covers quite a lot of miles on poorly maintained lanes. Can a Fiesta ST cope with that? I let my Swift Sport 1.6 go because the vibration was like sitting on a washing machine and it typically suffered one or two irreparably damaged tyres each winter (I was amazed how the rims managed to survive).Most things even vaguely sporty these days seem to have rubberband tyres and rock hard suspension.
Like the OP, I would like something fairly lively for big miles on poorly maintained lanes/tracks/back roads. So far the 'least bad' car is our current Viva. I wonder whether a VW Up 1.0TSI 90PS (not the 115PS GTi) could be a serious contender. Small, agile, not too expensive to run, not too low-profile tyres, not too firm suspension, reasonable mid-range torque meaning less gear changes than the non-turbo town cars.
Does anything new and 'sporty' actually come on tyres with a profile over about 45 these days, or have suspension that is actually 'supple but controlled' instead of 'rock bloody solid'?
I was going to suggest a hot hatch with, if necessary, aftermarket lightweight (but strong) wheels in a smaller diameter than standard, so higher profile tyres could be run - that would mean more likelihood of both tyres and wheels surviving the bomb craters we have for potholes these days.
I'm not sure anything nowadays has the sort of suspension one could find on mid-90s French hot hatches, which I would say was perfect for B-road coverage in an enjoyable manner.
Everything is also so bloody large that it can be a struggle to carry speed down small lanes that have even the slightest chance of something coming the other way - the Fiat/Abarth 500 seems to be about the only properly small car nowadays, from what I can tell.
If not a 500, perhaps an Audi S1 could work? 4WD, compact, wheels that aren't enormous (and could likely easily be swapped for a lower-spec model's 15" or 16" 'balloon tyre' wheels). I'm not sure how much they at, though, or how fun they are in terms of driving enjoyment / steering feel - evo magazine ran one for a while and liked it but I was under the impressions Audis generally had terrible steering feel.
The M140i (or whatever it's called) might fall within budget, and the Hyundai i30N is around the same money. I think there is an i20N coming out at some point, but I'm not sure when.
All that said, if you could run an MX5, I'd say go for that. RWD, yes, but not liable to throw you off into a ditch unless you're majorly overcooking it on ice, and even then you can run winter tyres for proper grip through the cold season. Get yourself to a skidpan day to learn what loss of traction feels like at low speeds and how to recover from it, and you could even do a drifting day or full airfield day to learn what it does at higher speeds.
Don't forget - pretty much everything used to be RWD until the Mini arrived, if I recall correctly.
I was going to suggest a hot hatch with, if necessary, aftermarket lightweight (but strong) wheels in a smaller diameter than standard, so higher profile tyres could be run - that would mean more likelihood of both tyres and wheels surviving the bomb craters we have for potholes these days.
I'm not sure anything nowadays has the sort of suspension one could find on mid-90s French hot hatches, which I would say was perfect for B-road coverage in an enjoyable manner.
Everything is also so bloody large that it can be a struggle to carry speed down small lanes that have even the slightest chance of something coming the other way - the Fiat/Abarth 500 seems to be about the only properly small car nowadays, from what I can tell.
If not a 500, perhaps an Audi S1 could work? 4WD, compact, wheels that aren't enormous (and could likely easily be swapped for a lower-spec model's 15" or 16" 'balloon tyre' wheels). I'm not sure how much they at, though, or how fun they are in terms of driving enjoyment / steering feel - evo magazine ran one for a while and liked it but I was under the impressions Audis generally had terrible steering feel.
The M140i (or whatever it's called) might fall within budget, and the Hyundai i30N is around the same money. I think there is an i20N coming out at some point, but I'm not sure when.
All that said, if you could run an MX5, I'd say go for that. RWD, yes, but not liable to throw you off into a ditch unless you're majorly overcooking it on ice, and even then you can run winter tyres for proper grip through the cold season. Get yourself to a skidpan day to learn what loss of traction feels like at low speeds and how to recover from it, and you could even do a drifting day or full airfield day to learn what it does at higher speeds.
Don't forget - pretty much everything used to be RWD until the Mini arrived, if I recall correctly.
Edited by RSTurboPaul on Saturday 29th June 23:57
RSTurboPaul said:
Does anything new and 'sporty' actually come on tyres with a profile over about 45 these days, or have suspension that is actually 'supple but controlled' instead of 'rock bloody solid'?
I was going to suggest a hot hatch with, if necessary, aftermarket lightweight (but strong) wheels in a smaller diameter than standard, so higher profile tyres could be run - that would mean more likelihood of both tyres and wheels surviving the bomb craters we have for potholes these days.
I'm not sure anything nowadays has the sort of suspension one could find on mid-90s French hot hatches, which I would say was perfect for B-road coverage in an enjoyable manner.
Everything is also so bloody large that it can be a struggle to carry speed down small lanes that have even the slightest chance of something coming the other way - the Fiat/Abarth 500 seems to be about the only properly small car nowadays, from what I can tell.
If not a 500, perhaps an Audi S1 could work? 4WD, compact, wheels that aren't enormous (and could likely easily be swapped for a lower-spec model's 15" or 16" 'balloon tyre' wheels). I'm not sure how much they at, though, or how fun they are in terms of driving enjoyment / steering feel - evo magazine ran one for a while and liked it but I was under the impressions Audis generally had terrible steering feel.
The M140i (or whatever it's called) might fall within budget, and the Hyundai i30N is around the same money. I think there is an i20N coming out at some point, but I'm not sure when.
All that said, if you could run an MX5, I'd say go for that. RWD, yes, but not liable to throw you off into a ditch unless you're majorly overcooking it on ice, and even then you can run winter tyres for proper grip through the cold season. Get yourself to a skidpan day to learn what loss of traction feels like at low speeds and how to recover from it, and you could even do a drifting day or full airfield day to learn what it does at higher speeds.
Don't forget - pretty much everything used to be RWD until the Mini arrived, if I recall correctly.
Wouldn’t bother with an S1. I found it dated compared to the other cars you mentioned, lacked any character whatsoever and also didn’t feel or look any different to the other half’s cooking S-Line. I was going to suggest a hot hatch with, if necessary, aftermarket lightweight (but strong) wheels in a smaller diameter than standard, so higher profile tyres could be run - that would mean more likelihood of both tyres and wheels surviving the bomb craters we have for potholes these days.
I'm not sure anything nowadays has the sort of suspension one could find on mid-90s French hot hatches, which I would say was perfect for B-road coverage in an enjoyable manner.
Everything is also so bloody large that it can be a struggle to carry speed down small lanes that have even the slightest chance of something coming the other way - the Fiat/Abarth 500 seems to be about the only properly small car nowadays, from what I can tell.
If not a 500, perhaps an Audi S1 could work? 4WD, compact, wheels that aren't enormous (and could likely easily be swapped for a lower-spec model's 15" or 16" 'balloon tyre' wheels). I'm not sure how much they at, though, or how fun they are in terms of driving enjoyment / steering feel - evo magazine ran one for a while and liked it but I was under the impressions Audis generally had terrible steering feel.
The M140i (or whatever it's called) might fall within budget, and the Hyundai i30N is around the same money. I think there is an i20N coming out at some point, but I'm not sure when.
All that said, if you could run an MX5, I'd say go for that. RWD, yes, but not liable to throw you off into a ditch unless you're majorly overcooking it on ice, and even then you can run winter tyres for proper grip through the cold season. Get yourself to a skidpan day to learn what loss of traction feels like at low speeds and how to recover from it, and you could even do a drifting day or full airfield day to learn what it does at higher speeds.
Don't forget - pretty much everything used to be RWD until the Mini arrived, if I recall correctly.
Edited by RSTurboPaul on Saturday 29th June 23:57
I'd say that you need not buy anything "sporty" if it is a hatchback that you are after.
As you say, "Sporty" tends to mean a pseudo-track-setup and visual baubles.
The car one step or more down in the range might be better with often smaller rims, more effective suspension for bumpy roads, still adequate power and cheaper running costs.
If you want a 2 seater sports car, then try the mx5 and GT86 and see which you prefer.
As you say, "Sporty" tends to mean a pseudo-track-setup and visual baubles.
The car one step or more down in the range might be better with often smaller rims, more effective suspension for bumpy roads, still adequate power and cheaper running costs.
If you want a 2 seater sports car, then try the mx5 and GT86 and see which you prefer.
I'm also in the 'smaller wheels = better' camp. 17s or 18s on anything thinner than a 45 profile on UK country roads is not a pleasant experience if you like to press on. Also tyres wider than 200 or so make matters worse as not only are you constantly on the look out for potholes, ruts, sunken gullies to stop you from smashing up your alloys due to no cushioning from the rubber band tyres, but the wide tyres also mean you get some tramlining over patched up and rutted surfaces. It quickly gets quite tiresome. I've found that a 205/50/16 on a vehicle with "sports" suspension is a good combination - good road-holding and good enough handling plus enough 'meat' on the tyre to soak up any impacts you didn't see or were hidden under a puddle.
The Fiesta STs mentioned up thread are renowned for their hard and crashy suspension as standard fyi.
The Fiesta STs mentioned up thread are renowned for their hard and crashy suspension as standard fyi.
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