Suggestions please, cooling comfy seats in estate form.

[chrisgeary]

I recently sold a BMW E61 550i. Fast but horrendously unreliable. I wanted something that wasn't going to break down every month so I'm currently in a Toyota Auris Hybrid Touring. Slow but very reliable. I quite like how it drives (mostly), it's great on fuel but it isn't comfortable on a long journey.

I'm looking for, quite possibly a unicorn, but here goes...

Must haves:
- Big boot for family of 5. I do occasionally fill the estate to the brim what with kids going to uni, holidays etc.
- Comfy seats with heating/ventilation/cooling inside. The cooling bit is a must.
- Reversing camera and sensors front/rear.
- Auto gearbox.
- Petrol, petrol/elec hybrid or PHEV. I'm only doing 5k a year. No diesel.
- Less than £12k.
- I'm good with high milers if they're reliable.

My current thoughts are:
- Lexus RX (sticking with the hybrid camp). I think it's probably too expensive and I don't need an SUV. Not great on fuel from what I read.
- An old Saab 9-5? They're pretty thirsty in auto form and the vented seats are rare.
- Ford Mondeo. I've never been keen on them but should I be looking here?
- Lexus IS300h and a roof box for those occasional runs?

Any others I should consider?

Edited by chrisgeary on Wednesday 3rd July 09:59

[ZX10R NIN]

I'd say the Mondeo in Titanium spec (preferably with the X Pack) they're very good cars & the best FWD steer in their class :

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Also with the Mondeo is a nice size so maybe consider the hatchback version:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

You'll have to haggle for the X Pack cars.

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Wednesday 3rd July 22:23

[Bumblebee7]

All of my suggestions are a Skoda Superb. Cavernous inside, very comfy. A petrol estate in L&K spec (for the heated/cooled seats) is a rare beast but I'm sure if you keep looking one will come up in budget.

Slightly over budget and diesel. Looks awesome, only 3 years old.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Also diesel, it's the older model but great spec. Well within budget.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

Over budget, but it's a petrol and ticks all boxes other than price.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

[MOBB]

Some kind of larger Mercedes?

[chrisgeary]

Thanks, Skoda's are looking good these days!

[ninjag]

Shame it can't be a diesel because the XF Sportbrake ticks every box and being facelift they are actually quite reliable. Great to drive and very smooth on the bumps as well. I do mainly very short trips and have no problems at all. The facelift had the dpf relocated so no issues there.

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2019...

Or even more loaded:

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/2019...

They should both have had the timing belt done at those mileages so that's a bonus.

[Prinny]

MOBB said:

Some kind of larger Mercedes?

I’d be going here too. No e500’s on autotrader right now it seems, but there’s one or two a month typically. Anything from ‘05 or so on shouldn’t have rust issues.
Then it’s just waiting for one with cooled seats to come up.

[ALawson]

When was the facelift on those? They look pretty nice compared to the Superb, not as big as an E but close. DpF do seem to cause issues in lower mileage cars.

[ninjag]

ALawson said:

When was the facelift on those? They look pretty nice compared to the Superb, not as big as an E but close. DpF do seem to cause issues in lower mileage cars.

It's a touch bigger than the E Class in length and width but not quite as big a boot I don't think. Facelift with the XF was 2012 onwards but all Sportbrakes are 2012+ so all facelift. DPF was moved closer to the engine or something so gets hotter much quicker.

They've got the excellent ZF8 transmission but it's the suspension setup which I really like which soaks up the bumps yet still remains firm and level. Not sure how they've managed to do it. The facelift also made considerable improvements to the sound insulation and the cabin is very quiet.

A very underrated and overlooked car in my opinion, I happened across it by chance because I never considered Jaguar to do an estate and didn't want a German car as my experience with BMW, Audi and Mercedes hasn't been great.

[chrisgeary]

ninjag said:

Shame it can't be a diesel because the XF Sportbrake ticks every box and being facelift they are actually quite reliable.

As a previous XF owner, I do love them, especially the sportbrake. But diesel, at 5k pa? Does it really make sense? Plus there seems to be some evidence that the 3.0D engine isn't the most reliable, various threads here and on other forums about sudden catastrophic failures concerns me. I guess I could buy a warranty to mitigate that.

[kiethton]

Surely this is exactly what the Volvo V70 was built for.

If the more modern ones are similar to the 850's of old they have the most comfortable seats of near-all cars i've sat in.

Also thinking out of the box, a Porsche Cayenne may work - far more chance of getting the cooled seats and there are a lot more petrol's available

Edited by kiethton on Thursday 4th July 10:09

[dmsims]

Much as I loved my V70 (the best car for long distances) the seats when ventilated are just that (no actual cooling from the A/C)

I think other manufacturers also just ventilate - need to check carefully!

[ninjag]

chrisgeary said:

As a previous XF owner, I do love them, especially the sportbrake. But diesel, at 5k pa? Does it really make sense? Plus there seems to be some evidence that the 3.0D engine isn't the most reliable, various threads here and on other forums about sudden catastrophic failures concerns me. I guess I could buy a warranty to mitigate that.

I guess it depends on how the 5k is made up, but as said I do a lot of short runs without any issues although I do service my car well beyond recommendations.

I've heard a few stories about the failures which I believe could be due to the crankshaft bearing/sleeve design of the pre-facelift where it can spin and block the oil hole (something along those lines) which was fixed in the facelift and it can't spin now with it being locked in place. Possibly combined with oil dilution due to incomplete DPF regens (against a pre-facelift issue and one which other cars suffer including Honda) and lack of regular oil changes could also contribution, especially when the oil could be getting contaminated.

But then I do come across a lot of engine failures/destruction/fires with the premium German cars, isn't there even a very recent one with an Audi going bang? But for some reason the German marques (including VW and Porsche) seem to be immune from persecution and people keep believing the "German engineering" marketing. Timing chains snapping, DSG failures, Touareg propshaft failures, VW dieselgate, 5 series rear air bag failures etc.

I'm not blinkered though and sure there are niggles which the XF suffers and I'm sure you know from being a previous owner, but they are usually inexpensive fixes with revised parts released and also either related to either pre-facelift or the saloon version. But to be fair to all of the 'premium' cars I don't expect them to be ultra reliable as that's not really their selling point. I went into my purchase expecting to have above average costs (hence buying an extra year's warranty - but perhaps I've been lucky?) because I wanted a car I would enjoy, otherwise I would have bought an Avensis and an open ended one-way flight to Switzerland for when the time came.

But if you are concerned about diesel then you could always increase your budget a smidgen...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

[chrisgeary]

Well it's a fair mix of short and longer journeys. The only short runs I do are weekly trips to Tesco (1.5 miles each way) and that's about all my urban driving. After that it's more typically longer weekend runs of 30 miles or more, each way. Then the quarterly trips to see family (40-90 miles each way).

Good to hear that the pre-facelift issues are resolved. I much prefer how the second gen looks as well.

ninjag said:

But if you are concerned about diesel then you could always increase your budget a smidgen...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...

One day

[chrisgeary]

@ninjag does your have cooling seats? Do you find they work well? I remember in my first XF, it was an 09 XFS, the cooling would work effectively for about 15 minutes and they'd switch off, even though they were still switched on in position 3 (full power). Same on the passenger side.

[ninjag]

chrisgeary said:

One day

You'll have to claw your way past me first! Haha

[ninjag]

chrisgeary said:

@ninjag does your have cooling seats? Do you find they work well? I remember in my first XF, it was an 09 XFS, the cooling would work effectively for about 15 minutes and they'd switch off, even though they were still switched on in position 3 (full power). Same on the passenger side.

Aye they are fine, took a colleague to a meeting and didn't tell him the passenger one was on and he kept quiet thinking he had spilled his water bottle on the seat and wet himself lol

Mine have recently become less cold but so has the a/c as it needs a regass. I'm guessing they must be a/c cooled and I'll know for sure after this weekend.

[chrisgeary]

I have been reading that the first gen used peltier modules but for the facelift models, they were replaced with just fans. If so, that would correlate with your experience. Do you find the back cooling is effective? I found that to be very weak on my 09.

[ninjag]

The back part is OK but the main cooling definitely feels to be on the seat, although you can turn the seat part off. I'll maybe try and see if that puts more cooling to the back.

[ninjag]

That's it just been emptied and regassed and back to cold. Seats are cooling nicely so it must be linked.


EDIT: Just to update on this I believe it is a 'through venting' type system with the facelift. There's a fan in the seats which I can hear come on and it's significantly cooler now that the a/c has been regassed.

Edited by ninjag on Friday 5th July 10:54