Dealers just not arsed - is it me?
Discussion
Daughter's Mini One has got to the stage when repair bills are starting to mount up so she's after something newer (and more reliable).
She works in the Lake District so needs something with a bit more ground clearance and fancies a secondhand Juke.
We went to 3 dealers yesterday, ready, willing and able to do the deal - Mini spick and span, both sets of keys, logbook, bills & receipts, cash etc.
No1 dealer - independent. Car was dirty, engine oil was old and below minimum, and a rear tyre was flat (probably because it still had a nail in it from an MOT advisory in 2017!). Sales people were nowhere to be seen. We left.
No 2 dealer - Vauxhall dealer. We made the mistake of walking into the 'new' car saleroom and were promptly dispatched to the 'Network Q' shed. Salesperson was more interested in what was on his PC screen and begrudgingly got the keys, opened the car, told us the wrong mileage and disappeared back to his office (well it was raining).
There were a couple of issues (f/ns wing had been resprayed and didn't match, ns door mirror had a big gouge in it, one front tyre was asymmetrical the other not) so we went back to try and strike a deal. Offer for p/exing the Mini was derisory and no movement on that nor the windscreen price despite us both saying we were ready to do a deal, it was clearly take it or leave it. We left it.
No 3 dealer - Renault/Nissan dealer. Despite checking earlier in the day the car was still available when we arrived it had been sent to auction. To be fair the salesman had phoned my daughter and left a message but we hadn't picked it up whilst en route.
No 1 - how hard is it to prepare a car for sale?
No 2 - maybe the salesman should try a different career path?
No 3 - how likely is it to have a car trailered to auction between a customer ringing in the morning and arriving to view it the same afternoon? Especially on a Saturday.
So a disappointing afternoon and left with the distinct impression that no one was that arsed to sell us a car. Is it because the sales people are badly paid and badly treated? Are they in between jobs or can find another job relatively easily? Are dealers taking so much out of each sale they can afford to turn customers away? Is this typical?
She works in the Lake District so needs something with a bit more ground clearance and fancies a secondhand Juke.
We went to 3 dealers yesterday, ready, willing and able to do the deal - Mini spick and span, both sets of keys, logbook, bills & receipts, cash etc.
No1 dealer - independent. Car was dirty, engine oil was old and below minimum, and a rear tyre was flat (probably because it still had a nail in it from an MOT advisory in 2017!). Sales people were nowhere to be seen. We left.
No 2 dealer - Vauxhall dealer. We made the mistake of walking into the 'new' car saleroom and were promptly dispatched to the 'Network Q' shed. Salesperson was more interested in what was on his PC screen and begrudgingly got the keys, opened the car, told us the wrong mileage and disappeared back to his office (well it was raining).
There were a couple of issues (f/ns wing had been resprayed and didn't match, ns door mirror had a big gouge in it, one front tyre was asymmetrical the other not) so we went back to try and strike a deal. Offer for p/exing the Mini was derisory and no movement on that nor the windscreen price despite us both saying we were ready to do a deal, it was clearly take it or leave it. We left it.
No 3 dealer - Renault/Nissan dealer. Despite checking earlier in the day the car was still available when we arrived it had been sent to auction. To be fair the salesman had phoned my daughter and left a message but we hadn't picked it up whilst en route.
No 1 - how hard is it to prepare a car for sale?
No 2 - maybe the salesman should try a different career path?
No 3 - how likely is it to have a car trailered to auction between a customer ringing in the morning and arriving to view it the same afternoon? Especially on a Saturday.
So a disappointing afternoon and left with the distinct impression that no one was that arsed to sell us a car. Is it because the sales people are badly paid and badly treated? Are they in between jobs or can find another job relatively easily? Are dealers taking so much out of each sale they can afford to turn customers away? Is this typical?
My brother in law lives in the Lake District and was looking for a Nissan Juke a few weeks ago.
He couldn't find anything up there he likedand so came down here to Preston.
I went with him to see a car at a local car supermarket I hadn't visited before. The cars were well prepped. The salesman was attentive without being pushy, offered a test drive without any prompting and was receptive to a bit of haggling.
I thought it was a good easy buying experience and will go back there when I'm looking to swap.
Theyre currently showing 5 Jukes in stock.
https://www.mpmotorcompany.co.uk/search_page.php?m...
He couldn't find anything up there he likedand so came down here to Preston.
I went with him to see a car at a local car supermarket I hadn't visited before. The cars were well prepped. The salesman was attentive without being pushy, offered a test drive without any prompting and was receptive to a bit of haggling.
I thought it was a good easy buying experience and will go back there when I'm looking to swap.
Theyre currently showing 5 Jukes in stock.
https://www.mpmotorcompany.co.uk/search_page.php?m...
No, it’s not just you. I can only speak for my experience in North London and Hertfordshire but try engaging with many Alfa dealers for evidence of a complete lack of interest and then, when you think it can’t get any worse, go to almost any Mercedes dealer.
The good news is that the independents are generally a joy to deal with...almost in inverse relation to how cockish the MDs are.
The good news is that the independents are generally a joy to deal with...almost in inverse relation to how cockish the MDs are.
Historically I’d agree with you but my experience over past 18 months & 4 purchases have been rather different.
1. Brand new MINI convertible, lowest price on Carwow, PX’d Mini + Saab to take advantage of their scrappage scheme. They were astonishingly honest in saying they had immediate customer for our MINI & gave us a very good PX price as they didn’t want us to go elsewhere, they got a better trade bid on Saab than they expected & gave us another £200. Our option list meant factory order, but given regular updates and was delivered exactly when finally promised.
2. Used BMW from main dealer, needed urgently owing to last minute decision to hand back a PCP Mercedes owing to paint defect. Cash deal done on 11 month old 320, no pushing me for finance or to buy something new instead. Car was detailed to perfection & collected 4 days later.
3. Two year old Corsa for youngest son, bought from Vauxhall main dealer. He made initial enquiries & they had no problem dealing with him, it was an inheritance purchase, so cash deal. Good reduction agreed, car collected 3 days later & nicely presented & handed over.
4. Brand new Porsche, treated like near royalty as you’d expect although I bought almost the cheapest car they sell. I dithered over whether to finance it, eventually deciding opting for PCP at last moment, but there was no pressure to do that.
The initial approach was different in each case, Mini Carwow, BMW wandered in off the street, Corsa my son emailed, Porsche I rang up & then visited.
Although all are main dealers I paid no more for that, each of first three were very competitively priced. I’ll name the dealers if anyone wants to know. They are in Essex, Suffolk & Kent.
1. Brand new MINI convertible, lowest price on Carwow, PX’d Mini + Saab to take advantage of their scrappage scheme. They were astonishingly honest in saying they had immediate customer for our MINI & gave us a very good PX price as they didn’t want us to go elsewhere, they got a better trade bid on Saab than they expected & gave us another £200. Our option list meant factory order, but given regular updates and was delivered exactly when finally promised.
2. Used BMW from main dealer, needed urgently owing to last minute decision to hand back a PCP Mercedes owing to paint defect. Cash deal done on 11 month old 320, no pushing me for finance or to buy something new instead. Car was detailed to perfection & collected 4 days later.
3. Two year old Corsa for youngest son, bought from Vauxhall main dealer. He made initial enquiries & they had no problem dealing with him, it was an inheritance purchase, so cash deal. Good reduction agreed, car collected 3 days later & nicely presented & handed over.
4. Brand new Porsche, treated like near royalty as you’d expect although I bought almost the cheapest car they sell. I dithered over whether to finance it, eventually deciding opting for PCP at last moment, but there was no pressure to do that.
The initial approach was different in each case, Mini Carwow, BMW wandered in off the street, Corsa my son emailed, Porsche I rang up & then visited.
Although all are main dealers I paid no more for that, each of first three were very competitively priced. I’ll name the dealers if anyone wants to know. They are in Essex, Suffolk & Kent.
Thanks for the replies.
Just for accuracy. I should have said the dealers were in Chester - daughter came home to Merseyside and we identified 3 Jukes in close proximity to each other so travelled further south.
Sparky - I'll send her the link for the Preston supermarket, thanks. Her budget is a bit below those and I've suggested she goes for petrol rather than diesel as whatever Govnt is in power will see an opportunity to raise more revenue from 'dirty diesel' sooner rather than later I suspect.
psi - Alfa dealers! Survived owning 3 Alfas (2 Suds & 156) despite them. Good to see some things don't change and they're still awful.
N111 - you're coming with us next time!
ED - have relatives in Stockton so may put the feelers out
Still it's made her mind up, she'll buy one then sell her MINI privately. Without too much effort she'll double what she's been offered as a trade in. If she can find someone who wants to sell her a car, then all she needs is a decent warranty...
Just for accuracy. I should have said the dealers were in Chester - daughter came home to Merseyside and we identified 3 Jukes in close proximity to each other so travelled further south.
Sparky - I'll send her the link for the Preston supermarket, thanks. Her budget is a bit below those and I've suggested she goes for petrol rather than diesel as whatever Govnt is in power will see an opportunity to raise more revenue from 'dirty diesel' sooner rather than later I suspect.
psi - Alfa dealers! Survived owning 3 Alfas (2 Suds & 156) despite them. Good to see some things don't change and they're still awful.
N111 - you're coming with us next time!
ED - have relatives in Stockton so may put the feelers out
Still it's made her mind up, she'll buy one then sell her MINI privately. Without too much effort she'll double what she's been offered as a trade in. If she can find someone who wants to sell her a car, then all she needs is a decent warranty...
JT111 said:
No 1 - how hard is it to prepare a car for sale?
This is something that infuriated me with Honda as they didn't prepare their cars either. It was terrible finding things like mold on the seat belts, messy interiors, light scratches all round the car, engines clearly not serviced etc. When I asked her about this she went off and checked (she was newish) and came back saying that they don't do any prep work until you buy the car, I'm guessing to save costs in case it doesn't sell and they shift it on. After viewing about five or six CRV's which all felt neglected I gave up and went to an independent garage and bought one there. It was immaculate.
Seriously, how backwards is that thinking of Honda?
ninjag said:
This is something that infuriated me with Honda as they didn't prepare their cars either. It was terrible finding things like mold on the seat belts, messy interiors, light scratches all round the car, engines clearly not serviced etc. When I asked her about this she went off and checked (she was newish) and came back saying that they don't do any prep work until you buy the car, I'm guessing to save costs in case it doesn't sell and they shift it on.
After viewing about five or six CRV's which all felt neglected I gave up and went to an independent garage and bought one there. It was immaculate.
Seriously, how backwards is that thinking of Honda?
Ditched buying a BMW M235i convertible from 'BMW specialist' for the same reason. The car had big swirl marks on the bonnet and chunks out of 2 wheels. They had literally thrown a bucket a water over it and put it in the showroom. It was well priced but for £20k I expected better. I haggled over it and in the end they wouldn't come down for the last £50 and I lost faith in them and the car and walked. It's still there 1 month later....After viewing about five or six CRV's which all felt neglected I gave up and went to an independent garage and bought one there. It was immaculate.
Seriously, how backwards is that thinking of Honda?
Also noticed there's more of this 'All our cars are fixed priced' thing.
The advantage of the internet is that it lets you look at as many examples of a car (s) that you want to, and get a feel for the right price.
The disadvantage is that price matching eats into margins, therefore haggling over the price is far less likely to happen. Can't have it both ways.
The only modern way to haggle is to get extras thrown in, or subsidised.
Same price issues with trade ins. Don't automatically expect to sell a car privately at a massive higher price. People look around at prices, if you are too dear they wont even look, let alone make an offer.
As for preperation of cars, that is almost always relevant to the age/price bracket you are looking at. Extra expenses before a sale cannot be earned back. But changing the oil etc are the little extras you can haggle for.
The disadvantage is that price matching eats into margins, therefore haggling over the price is far less likely to happen. Can't have it both ways.
The only modern way to haggle is to get extras thrown in, or subsidised.
Same price issues with trade ins. Don't automatically expect to sell a car privately at a massive higher price. People look around at prices, if you are too dear they wont even look, let alone make an offer.
As for preperation of cars, that is almost always relevant to the age/price bracket you are looking at. Extra expenses before a sale cannot be earned back. But changing the oil etc are the little extras you can haggle for.
I see these complaints regularly
Most of the attentive local independents who did a great job, looked after their customers have gone, leaving main dealers, super markets , bomb sites.....quality indis who did the job correctly couldn't compete on price with the advent of the net, their ageing loyal customer base died off and there was no money to be made just big overheads.
It will get far worse as the big boys dominate the market.
Coilspring said:
The advantage of the internet is that it lets you look at as many examples of a car (s) that you want to, and get a feel for the right price.
The disadvantage is that price matching eats into margins, therefore haggling over the price is far less likely to happen. Can't have it both ways.
We've had AT magazine for decades and even E&M to allow us to do this. The disadvantage is that price matching eats into margins, therefore haggling over the price is far less likely to happen. Can't have it both ways.
JT111 said:
Thanks for the replies.
Just for accuracy. I should have said the dealers were in Chester - daughter came home to Merseyside and we identified 3 Jukes in close proximity to each other so travelled further south.
Sparky - I'll send her the link for the Preston supermarket, thanks. Her budget is a bit below those and I've suggested she goes for petrol rather than diesel as whatever Govnt is in power will see an opportunity to raise more revenue from 'dirty diesel' sooner rather than later I suspect.
psi - Alfa dealers! Survived owning 3 Alfas (2 Suds & 156) despite them. Good to see some things don't change and they're still awful.
N111 - you're coming with us next time!
ED - have relatives in Stockton so may put the feelers out
Still it's made her mind up, she'll buy one then sell her MINI privately. Without too much effort she'll double what she's been offered as a trade in. If she can find someone who wants to sell her a car, then all she needs is a decent warranty...
When we were looking (also in Chester) the Hyundai dealer wasn't interested and promised to phone with a part ex price the following day (it was a Sunday) 6 months later, still waiting for the call.Just for accuracy. I should have said the dealers were in Chester - daughter came home to Merseyside and we identified 3 Jukes in close proximity to each other so travelled further south.
Sparky - I'll send her the link for the Preston supermarket, thanks. Her budget is a bit below those and I've suggested she goes for petrol rather than diesel as whatever Govnt is in power will see an opportunity to raise more revenue from 'dirty diesel' sooner rather than later I suspect.
psi - Alfa dealers! Survived owning 3 Alfas (2 Suds & 156) despite them. Good to see some things don't change and they're still awful.
N111 - you're coming with us next time!
ED - have relatives in Stockton so may put the feelers out
Still it's made her mind up, she'll buy one then sell her MINI privately. Without too much effort she'll double what she's been offered as a trade in. If she can find someone who wants to sell her a car, then all she needs is a decent warranty...
The Mazda dealer salesman came and opened the door, and then walked off, completely disinterested.
The Peugeot dealer came and spoke to us, have us a coffee and then let us look, wandering over every few minutes to see if he could help.
Then as we had an appointment at home, he drove the car we were interested in to our home so we could test it.
Guess who we bought from?
Coilspring said:
Wasn't, or isn't, quite the same though.
Believe it or not, your choice, the margins in cars now, are low. Hence no, or very little, movement on price.
Really?Believe it or not, your choice, the margins in cars now, are low. Hence no, or very little, movement on price.
The Vauxhall dealer offered £1k. A cursory internet trawl shows dealer similar examples going for £2100 - £2500. So taking £1100-£1500 on a £1000 car is IMO a lot of margin. Sure it's not all profit but that's not a bad return on investment.
It won't be the Vauxhall dealer, he doesn't want older stock cluttering up his forecourt so will give only what he knows he'll get at auction to cover his outlay and costs but it appears there's still good money to be made from it.
JT111 said:
Really?
The Vauxhall dealer offered £1k. A cursory internet trawl shows dealer similar examples going for £2100 - £2500. So taking £1100-£1500 on a £1000 car is IMO a lot of margin. Sure it's not all profit but that's not a bad return on investment.
It won't be the Vauxhall dealer, he doesn't want older stock cluttering up his forecourt so will give only what he knows he'll get at auction to cover his outlay and costs but it appears there's still good money to be made from it.
That’s actually less margin than I expect. Any reasonable dealer will need to do some prep and checks (time = money), there will be some VAT to pay, if it needs new tyres or something goes wrong (consumer rights) etc. and that’s before you get to their staff costs, premises, rates, utilities, etc.The Vauxhall dealer offered £1k. A cursory internet trawl shows dealer similar examples going for £2100 - £2500. So taking £1100-£1500 on a £1000 car is IMO a lot of margin. Sure it's not all profit but that's not a bad return on investment.
It won't be the Vauxhall dealer, he doesn't want older stock cluttering up his forecourt so will give only what he knows he'll get at auction to cover his outlay and costs but it appears there's still good money to be made from it.
At this end of the market, you may get a few hundred more in a private sale.
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