First Track Car Question

[JaGe]

So, i'm indecisive and have a decision to make.....

Background
Looking at getting my first project/track car, don't have overly deep pockets, but at the same time like nice stuff! All current research points to an MX5 being the best choice (cheap, light, modifiable, fun, good driver)....however. I like power and also am thinking it will get used on weekends, with the occasional long tour - this leads me to the question.....

Question
Do I go, MX5 for ~1,500 and spend ~4k going FI to boost the power. Or should I just spend ~4k and get either a 350z, 986boxster or (insert better suggestions here!) that already have the power and then change the usuals (seats, wheels, brakes, suspension...)??

Side note, the two potential drivers of this car are me and my dad - both 6'4 and ~100+kg (potentially the mx5 might not be overly comfortable...haven't sat in one??), this is also a consideration

Appreciate any thoughts/help!

[TroubledSoul]

I'm not hugely up on MX5s, but won't you likely end up with a rust bucket for that money? I know they're extremely susceptible to tin worm in certain areas like the rear sills etc.

[ZX10R NIN]

I'd buy the 350 it's less likely to suffer tin worm & is just as good a starting point also at 6'4 you & your dad will appreciate the extra bit of space.

[JaGe]

TroubledSoul said:

I'm not hugely up on MX5s, but won't you likely end up with a rust bucket for that money? I know they're extremely susceptible to tin worm in certain areas like the rear sills etc.

Definitely a concern. seen a few mk2 (NBs) from ~2003 around the 1,500-1600 mark that look & read well on the surface (also seen quite a few forum guys nabbing them for around this mark). Seeing them in person would be the only way to tell though - and i don't fancy having to keep paying out down the line to get on top of a rust problem.

think if i end up spending 2.5k on an mx5, my power-to-cost problem becomes worse Do you think there are other better options that i'm missing from my list?

[JaGe]

ZX10R NIN said:

I'd buy the 350 it's less likely to suffer tin worm & is just as good a starting point also at 6'4 you & your dad will appreciate the extra bit of space.

agreed on the space Do you have a view on GT vs standard for converting to track use?

[Roboticarm]

I went super cheap spending £400 on an 1994 import Celica and £350 getting it running well etc
It didn't last very long, ended up with a blown head gasket and getting sold on eBay for peanuts.

My mate as a 2003 350z which has done multiple track days and weekend use and performs really well.

As a result of the above I'd say spend more and get the 350.

If you think the 350 will be fast round the track though you might be barking up the wrong tree, fastesr things around the track always seem to be Renault sport meganes or clios and focus sts

Perhaps a clio 172, 182 or 197 would be a good shout ?

[shtu]

I'd be tempted by a Boxster. Keep any parts you swap, return it to standard at a later date, flog car and go-faster bits separately and I doubt you would lose a penny on it.

[JaGe]

Roboticarm said:

I went super cheap spending £400 on an 1994 import Celica and £350 getting it running well etc
It didn't last very long, ended up with a blown head gasket and getting sold on eBay for peanuts.

My mate as a 2003 350z which has done multiple track days and weekend use and performs really well.

As a result of the above I'd say spend more and get the 350.

If you think the 350 will be fast round the track though you might be barking up the wrong tree, fastesr things around the track always seem to be Renault sport meganes or clios and focus sts

Perhaps a clio 172, 182 or 197 would be a good shout ?

Ouch on the Celica!! what do you track now out of interest?

Really - is that just stronger stock power to weight, or are these guys going mad on the mods? i'll be honest I hadn't put too much thought into the hot hatch over the initial MX5 idea....will look to see what I can find price wise

[JaGe]

shtu said:

I'd be tempted by a Boxster. Keep any parts you swap, return it to standard at a later date, flog car and go-faster bits separately and I doubt you would lose a penny on it.

The boxster does seem like a nice MX5 plus option - although i've heard parts & mods costs can runaway.....y'know 'Porsche premium' and all. But i guess this only applies to the stock parts that need replacing through wear & tear

[mbwoy84]

My advice would be this...

Buy a car, spending no more than you need to, and keep the modifications and upgrades to a minimum. Fit a set of decent brake pads and change to some decent fluid. Make sure the brakes are working well and efficiently, so possibly some hoses as well. Make sure decent tyres are fitted. Thorough service and check over, make sure all fluids etc are bang on.

DO NOT fit a big brake kit or fancy suspension or try and boost the power in any way.

Make sure you have a supportive seat and are well strapped in, so possibly a decent bucket seat and harness.

I've seen far too many people spend a load of money on upgrades that are not necessary unless you are experienced in trackdays, then the car gets used once or twice and thrown to one side or sold at a big loss. Do the necessary upgrades and nothing more. The rest can follow when you get more into it and need to make improvements to see the benefits and the time, money and effort is worthwhile.

Personally, I'd also start out in something tin top and FWD. Clio 172/182 or Fiesta ST. A 206 GTi 180 is another shout as it would probably be cheaper than the others and a perfectly good starting point.

[nickfrog]

Roboticarm said:

Perhaps a clio 172, 182 or 197 would be a good shout ?

Excellent advice

[JaGe]

Roboticarm said:

I went super cheap spending ..........

mbwoy84 said:

My advice would be this.......

nickfrog said:

Excellent Advice

Appreciate the comments guys! Tough to avoid the temptation of upselling yourself & diving in at the deep end. Will be having a little rethink of strategy tonight & looking through some of the hot hatch options you mention.

I probably need to more specify exactly what i'm after as well! i.e if i see myself doing more weekend b-roading than tracking or vice versa .......

[Roboticarm]

JaGe said:

Ouch on the Celica!! what do you track now out of interest?

Really - is that just stronger stock power to weight, or are these guys going mad on the mods? i'll be honest I hadn't put too much thought into the hot hatch over the initial MX5 idea....will look to see what I can find price wise

Ive not got a track car at the moment, planning to run my corolla t sport as a daily until next mot then get a new daily and track the corolla.

I think the clios in particular are just decently setup out of the box.

As above I wouldn't bother with mods.

I had a 172 as a daily, other than being a bit noisey in the motorway it was a decent daily too

[egor110]

JaGe said:

Appreciate the comments guys! Tough to avoid the temptation of upselling yourself & diving in at the deep end. Will be having a little rethink of strategy tonight & looking through some of the hot hatch options you mention.

I probably need to more specify exactly what i'm after as well! i.e if i see myself doing more weekend b-roading than tracking or vice versa .......

Why not go to a track day and get passenger laps in mx5, clios , mini coopers and see if the hot hatches surprise you .

[DoubleD]

I think a clio with some decent brake pads would be your best option. You could probably remove some weight from the car at no cost, then fit it back in again before you sell it.

[TroubledSoul]

A Clio would be decent and they do seem to be very fast around the tight, twisty tracks like Blyton et al. If you want RWD though they won't cut it. It really does depend on what YOU want. If you buy the wrong car then plough money into it, you'll either sell at a loss or continue with it despite being frustrated it isn't giving you what you want.

[egor110]

TroubledSoul said:

A Clio would be decent and they do seem to be very fast around the tight, twisty tracks like Blyton et al. If you want RWD though they won't cut it. It really does depend on what YOU want. If you buy the wrong car then plough money into it, you'll either sell at a loss or continue with it despite being frustrated it isn't giving you what you want.

Hence why he should get passenger laps in a variety of cars .

Does he want rwd because it's what the majority on here say is a must , does he want to just go fast on track and have fun regardless of which wheels the power go to ?

If you've never been on track even a standard mx5 or ford puma are going to feel quick , get a ride in a puma owned by a decent driver and you'll really be surprised by how quick it can get around .

To many people get big power rwd cars and you can see them on track pootling around the corners then flooring it along the straights because that's all they can do go fast in a straight line

[anonymous-user]

For a track day car, I'd centre on how cheaply you can run it on track, how reliably it will do it and then how much fun it will be.

The first thing you have to do on track is enjoy the experience without breaking the bank or worrying bout binning it.

I took a new M3 on track, insured, but I still drove it like Miss Daisy as I didn't want to bin it. It was fast, as in using its power to keep fairly easily with Caterhams and the like at Croft, but I wasn't really committed, and I didn't enjoy it as much as a result.

Contrast that with my old MK2 CRX, I used to cane the living daylights out of it everywhere and had a hoot. It was relatively light, so didn't kill clutches, brakes, tyres or use enough fuel to empty itself entirely in a morning session (the twin turbo M3 did about 6-8mpg on track).

Think less about straight line grunt (you can add that later) and more about what promotes good stopping and turning. Low weight, low CoG.

The answer is very PH, probably...

MX5.

[JaGe]

egor110 said:

TroubledSoul said:

A Clio would be decent and they do seem to be very fast around the tight, twisty tracks like Blyton et al. If you want RWD though they won't cut it. It really does depend on what YOU want. If you buy the wrong car then plough money into it, you'll either sell at a loss or continue with it despite being frustrated it isn't giving you what you want.

Hence why he should get passenger laps in a variety of cars .

Does he want rwd because it's what the majority on here say is a must , does he want to just go fast on track and have fun regardless of which wheels the power go to ?

If you've never been on track even a standard mx5 or ford puma are going to feel quick , get a ride in a puma owned by a decent driver and you'll really be surprised by how quick it can get around .

To many people get big power rwd cars and you can see them on track pootling around the corners then flooring it along the straights because that's all they can do go fast in a straight line

true, am thinking and RWD roadster would be a nice mix for the idea that's in my head. Was doing some searching last night and (terrible as this sounds) just struggling to get inspired by the hatchbacks. Have decided that this will be both a track & weekend driver so not getting fully stripped & lap time focused. Just going for style/fun/customisability (if that's a word ).

Narrowed options to:
- mx5 either cheaper NB or the 2.0 NC (size issue can be overcome with bucket seats on floor mounts)
- z3/z4, for a little more style factor, would be costing ~1-1.5k more

Will be taking the solid advice in this thread and starting SLOW - basics like fluid, tyres & safety. hoping to keep some longevity

[JaGe]

janesmith1950 said:

For a track day .......

thanks for this. This thread has been good for me haha - I tend to get carried away and it's good to hear of all the fun being had in the cheaper cars that you can really take to the limits

Open question....does mileage matter too much when buying for track use? i.e a 60k car vs 120k (will obviously depend alot on how it's been run, serviced etc....)