E46 M3, M3 CSL, C2S 997.1 Hartech, C2S 997.2.
Discussion
Hi
Ridiculous options I know, but these are the cars that I'm going round and round with.
I currently have a Z4 3.0si Coupe as a second car For the money it's amazing, but I want something a bit more special and back seats will be useful with a second child arriving shortly.
If it is not at risk of heavy depreciation then that is a bonus but it's the special feeling that I'm really looking for.
Having never owned an M3 or 911 these are top of my list. This will probably become my daily driver (very short commute) which I currently use a 17 plate X5 for, along with family duties at the weekend. This is staying as the family car an will become my wife's daily.
Coming from something with luxury I'm thinking the 997.2 (maybe even PDK) is probably the best option, as it has the special factor that I'm after, plus relatively good levels of refinement.
Few questions,,
- Is the 997.1 much better to drive than the 997.2? Seen a few reviews that the engine is more classic Porsche.
- At a quarter of the price of a 997.2 will a nice E46 M3 offer almost the same levels of specialness with more practicality and much less depreciation? Put an up to date stereo in and I think it would be a good daily.
- Any other options to consider?
Look forward to your thoughts.
Ridiculous options I know, but these are the cars that I'm going round and round with.
I currently have a Z4 3.0si Coupe as a second car For the money it's amazing, but I want something a bit more special and back seats will be useful with a second child arriving shortly.
If it is not at risk of heavy depreciation then that is a bonus but it's the special feeling that I'm really looking for.
Having never owned an M3 or 911 these are top of my list. This will probably become my daily driver (very short commute) which I currently use a 17 plate X5 for, along with family duties at the weekend. This is staying as the family car an will become my wife's daily.
Coming from something with luxury I'm thinking the 997.2 (maybe even PDK) is probably the best option, as it has the special factor that I'm after, plus relatively good levels of refinement.
Few questions,,
- Is the 997.1 much better to drive than the 997.2? Seen a few reviews that the engine is more classic Porsche.
- At a quarter of the price of a 997.2 will a nice E46 M3 offer almost the same levels of specialness with more practicality and much less depreciation? Put an up to date stereo in and I think it would be a good daily.
- Any other options to consider?
Look forward to your thoughts.
tektas said:
I think it would be good to know what your budget is.
Is there anything special you are looking for? Handling? Sound? Power etc.
HiIs there anything special you are looking for? Handling? Sound? Power etc.
Thanks for replying.
All the above, Sound, noise, handling, power, but easy to live with every day.
Budget up £50-60k depending on depcriation
This morning I have gone from a very nice CSL for £50k, then a 997.1 for £18k that I would then have money to do a Hartech rebuild if needed. Then 991.1 for £50k. I think I have car buying issues. I seem to buy something, anything, very 6 months. This time last year that meant selling an RS4 and buying a Nissan Navara!
I'd like to think I can help here. I had a new E46 M3, nearly new CSL, used 997.1 C2S and then a 997.2 C4S.
To cut a long story short, I would choose the CSL every single time.
Firstly, the CSL is like comparing a GT3 to a Carrera - they are completely different cars that happen to look similar. You would need to spend a lot of money on an M3 for it to feel the same and provide the same theatre. The interior of the CSL is impossible to recreate and is far more of an event then any of the other cars.
You can get close with a 'normal' M3, but most have gone towards being too track focused and CSLs are better looked after as they never dipped below £26/27k.
I had a 997.1 immediately after and regretted it. Didn't like the interior, hated having no weight over the nose and it felt slow compared to the CSL. The exhaust note was nice but the CSL's intake noise is many times over nicer to hear - spine tingling.
In comparison, it is amazing how different (better) the Gen 2 is. The engine has less character, but doesn't explode, which I heard is quite handy.
I had a C4S, and the chassis was sublime with real front end bite. It is basically a Turbo, without the turbos (whereas the 997.1 C4/S had an older tech 4WD not shared with the Turbo). Everything was a little bit better than the Gen 1 in every area. I noticed the same when my dad went from Gen 1 Turbo to Gen 2 Turbo S.
For me, the 997.2 is perfect in balancing old and new Porsche in terms of looks. I fitted a Sharkwerks to deal with the lack of noise, fitted some BBS CH-Rs and lowered it on HR springs. It looked incredible. I was always disappointed by the NVH of the car, but I would have one again - just don't believe all the hype. But, due to that hype, you will bask in the glory of being in a 911 and you will be a more desirable person because of it!
The CSL? Many will think it is crazy money for an old M3. But I'd say they are worth every penny.
To cut a long story short, I would choose the CSL every single time.
Firstly, the CSL is like comparing a GT3 to a Carrera - they are completely different cars that happen to look similar. You would need to spend a lot of money on an M3 for it to feel the same and provide the same theatre. The interior of the CSL is impossible to recreate and is far more of an event then any of the other cars.
You can get close with a 'normal' M3, but most have gone towards being too track focused and CSLs are better looked after as they never dipped below £26/27k.
I had a 997.1 immediately after and regretted it. Didn't like the interior, hated having no weight over the nose and it felt slow compared to the CSL. The exhaust note was nice but the CSL's intake noise is many times over nicer to hear - spine tingling.
In comparison, it is amazing how different (better) the Gen 2 is. The engine has less character, but doesn't explode, which I heard is quite handy.
I had a C4S, and the chassis was sublime with real front end bite. It is basically a Turbo, without the turbos (whereas the 997.1 C4/S had an older tech 4WD not shared with the Turbo). Everything was a little bit better than the Gen 1 in every area. I noticed the same when my dad went from Gen 1 Turbo to Gen 2 Turbo S.
For me, the 997.2 is perfect in balancing old and new Porsche in terms of looks. I fitted a Sharkwerks to deal with the lack of noise, fitted some BBS CH-Rs and lowered it on HR springs. It looked incredible. I was always disappointed by the NVH of the car, but I would have one again - just don't believe all the hype. But, due to that hype, you will bask in the glory of being in a 911 and you will be a more desirable person because of it!
The CSL? Many will think it is crazy money for an old M3. But I'd say they are worth every penny.
thelostboy said:
I'd like to think I can help here. I had a new E46 M3, nearly new CSL, used 997.1 C2S and then a 997.2 C4S.
To cut a long story short, I would choose the CSL every single time.
Firstly, the CSL is like comparing a GT3 to a Carrera - they are completely different cars that happen to look similar. You would need to spend a lot of money on an M3 for it to feel the same and provide the same theatre. The interior of the CSL is impossible to recreate and is far more of an event then any of the other cars.
You can get close with a 'normal' M3, but most have gone towards being too track focused and CSLs are better looked after as they never dipped below £26/27k.
I had a 997.1 immediately after and regretted it. Didn't like the interior, hated having no weight over the nose and it felt slow compared to the CSL. The exhaust note was nice but the CSL's intake noise is many times over nicer to hear - spine tingling.
In comparison, it is amazing how different (better) the Gen 2 is. The engine has less character, but doesn't explode, which I heard is quite handy.
I had a C4S, and the chassis was sublime with real front end bite. It is basically a Turbo, without the turbos (whereas the 997.1 C4/S had an older tech 4WD not shared with the Turbo). Everything was a little bit better than the Gen 1 in every area. I noticed the same when my dad went from Gen 1 Turbo to Gen 2 Turbo S.
For me, the 997.2 is perfect in balancing old and new Porsche in terms of looks. I fitted a Sharkwerks to deal with the lack of noise, fitted some BBS CH-Rs and lowered it on HR springs. It looked incredible. I was always disappointed by the NVH of the car, but I would have one again - just don't believe all the hype. But, due to that hype, you will bask in the glory of being in a 911 and you will be a more desirable person because of it!
The CSL? Many will think it is crazy money for an old M3. But I'd say they are worth every penny.
What a great reply, thank you very much! Real world experience of a fellow car enthusiast is exactly what I wanted to hear. To cut a long story short, I would choose the CSL every single time.
Firstly, the CSL is like comparing a GT3 to a Carrera - they are completely different cars that happen to look similar. You would need to spend a lot of money on an M3 for it to feel the same and provide the same theatre. The interior of the CSL is impossible to recreate and is far more of an event then any of the other cars.
You can get close with a 'normal' M3, but most have gone towards being too track focused and CSLs are better looked after as they never dipped below £26/27k.
I had a 997.1 immediately after and regretted it. Didn't like the interior, hated having no weight over the nose and it felt slow compared to the CSL. The exhaust note was nice but the CSL's intake noise is many times over nicer to hear - spine tingling.
In comparison, it is amazing how different (better) the Gen 2 is. The engine has less character, but doesn't explode, which I heard is quite handy.
I had a C4S, and the chassis was sublime with real front end bite. It is basically a Turbo, without the turbos (whereas the 997.1 C4/S had an older tech 4WD not shared with the Turbo). Everything was a little bit better than the Gen 1 in every area. I noticed the same when my dad went from Gen 1 Turbo to Gen 2 Turbo S.
For me, the 997.2 is perfect in balancing old and new Porsche in terms of looks. I fitted a Sharkwerks to deal with the lack of noise, fitted some BBS CH-Rs and lowered it on HR springs. It looked incredible. I was always disappointed by the NVH of the car, but I would have one again - just don't believe all the hype. But, due to that hype, you will bask in the glory of being in a 911 and you will be a more desirable person because of it!
The CSL? Many will think it is crazy money for an old M3. But I'd say they are worth every penny.
I keep coming back to the CSL. Hopefully the most depreciation proof (who can really predict?!). Is it good as a daily driver, or more an occasional treat?
https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...
I think enthusiasts already recognise the E46 M3 is one of the best shapes, and the CSL accentuates this with the bumpers, ducktail and the lovely wheels. I think they will always hold their money.
Mine was a daily and was fine. An SMG sensor went the day I bought it, but other than it was fine.
I personally think Silver Grey is 'the' CSL colour so would turn my nose up at Sapphire Black. The AP racing brakes likely mean it was tracked, if that's an issue. I tracked mine, and had them!
I believe the CSL Register is still quite buoyant and worth joining.
Mine was a daily and was fine. An SMG sensor went the day I bought it, but other than it was fine.
I personally think Silver Grey is 'the' CSL colour so would turn my nose up at Sapphire Black. The AP racing brakes likely mean it was tracked, if that's an issue. I tracked mine, and had them!
I believe the CSL Register is still quite buoyant and worth joining.
As much as I Adore the M3CSL ( I have had lots of the original 3.0CSL through my hands over the years ) I think that @ £50 grand plus, for a good one, they Do Not offer ££ value for money and are Way over £ / E priced.
The SMG only box ( although several have been converted to manual ) is also an acquired taste as well.
Yes, the CSLs seats ( just like the 3.0CSLs Scheel buckets ) are superb ( for my 5.10, slim frame any way ) and that induction noise is to die for !
I owned a lovely 2 owner, late 2003 E46 M3 in carbon black for 5 years. I bought it on 149,000 motorway miles in Dec 12 and did a Lot more miles in it. My one had a CSL steering rack fitted, which absolutely transforms, these superb cars.
I ran it on Conti M3 tires and then the new Conti Sport 6 tires, which are amazing. Add a set of Konis all round and you will have a simply fantastic " Drivers Car " / Weapon for a £ fraction of the E46CSLs price.
I ran my M3 without the rear seats or rear side cards in place, which saves a Lot of weight. Also, one Recarro Pole Position seat, is less than half the weight, of the M3s OE boat anchor / arm chairs.
I stupidly sold it, in June 17 for £5,999 exactly what I paid for it @ Xmas 2012.
Miss it terribly......
As for 911s, the only one I would touch is a 996 Turbo.
The SMG only box ( although several have been converted to manual ) is also an acquired taste as well.
Yes, the CSLs seats ( just like the 3.0CSLs Scheel buckets ) are superb ( for my 5.10, slim frame any way ) and that induction noise is to die for !
I owned a lovely 2 owner, late 2003 E46 M3 in carbon black for 5 years. I bought it on 149,000 motorway miles in Dec 12 and did a Lot more miles in it. My one had a CSL steering rack fitted, which absolutely transforms, these superb cars.
I ran it on Conti M3 tires and then the new Conti Sport 6 tires, which are amazing. Add a set of Konis all round and you will have a simply fantastic " Drivers Car " / Weapon for a £ fraction of the E46CSLs price.
I ran my M3 without the rear seats or rear side cards in place, which saves a Lot of weight. Also, one Recarro Pole Position seat, is less than half the weight, of the M3s OE boat anchor / arm chairs.
I stupidly sold it, in June 17 for £5,999 exactly what I paid for it @ Xmas 2012.
Miss it terribly......
As for 911s, the only one I would touch is a 996 Turbo.
CSL all day long. Far more special than anything else on the list. They’ve been dropping a bit in price again lately, but can’t see them going down too much
Drive a good one and I’d say you’ll buy it. Visit the CSL Register before you do though. Either buy a well known one from there, or get a specialist to check it out. Bartletts in Huntingdon were the specialists of choice a few years ago, and probably still are, who did the work on mine (new VANOS, bottom end refresh, compression tests)
Drive a good one and I’d say you’ll buy it. Visit the CSL Register before you do though. Either buy a well known one from there, or get a specialist to check it out. Bartletts in Huntingdon were the specialists of choice a few years ago, and probably still are, who did the work on mine (new VANOS, bottom end refresh, compression tests)
Owned an E46 M3 from new in 2002 and currently own a 997.2 GTS. If I was going to own an M3 it would have to be the CSL but I just don’t know how it’s aged....I haven’t driven one since 2004...I loved it at the time because of the character (was a b
h when cold...pogoing down the street) but not so sure now. Modern DSG/PDK type boxes are so good it might be odd having a box like the SMG in a weekend car. That said I just love the look and sound of it.
My 997.2 GTS is a manual car and I absolutely love it...it’s a great car to drive, much more rewarding than an M3 I think. When I bought it I did think about a modern M3 but that didn’t last long. You have to learn to drive them though,...even the modern ones. If you learn to drive one properly and trail brake in to the corners so the weight is on the front wheels there’s plenty of front end grip (way more than you ever need on the public road) and then you have all that weight over the rear tyres...nothing drives out of a bend quite like a hooked up 911.
h when cold...pogoing down the street) but not so sure now. Modern DSG/PDK type boxes are so good it might be odd having a box like the SMG in a weekend car. That said I just love the look and sound of it. My 997.2 GTS is a manual car and I absolutely love it...it’s a great car to drive, much more rewarding than an M3 I think. When I bought it I did think about a modern M3 but that didn’t last long. You have to learn to drive them though,...even the modern ones. If you learn to drive one properly and trail brake in to the corners so the weight is on the front wheels there’s plenty of front end grip (way more than you ever need on the public road) and then you have all that weight over the rear tyres...nothing drives out of a bend quite like a hooked up 911.
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