First restoration dilemma
Discussion
After years thinking about it, and inspired by threads on PH, I’ve decided to take the plunge and buy something to tinker with. Aim is to do minor restoration work a la WheelerDealers (ie I’m not buying a rusting shell and trailer of parts), waste time doing it, and enjoy learning on the way.
Question for PH: I’m pretty inexperienced, so do I buy a car that is really easy to work on, but ultimately not that excited about owning, or go for something more exciting, but where working on it/sourcing parts may be more difficult?
Current options are:
Easier, but less excited about owning:
MGB, Midget, Spitfire/GT6, Ford Capri
Like to own, but harder to get parts?
Lancia Beta, Lancia Monte Carlo, Fiat 850/124 Sport Spider
Like to own but complicated?
MR2, BMW 6-Series, Porsche 928
Love to hear opinions, especially from those that have bitten off more than they could chew with a first restoration effort...
Question for PH: I’m pretty inexperienced, so do I buy a car that is really easy to work on, but ultimately not that excited about owning, or go for something more exciting, but where working on it/sourcing parts may be more difficult?
Current options are:
Easier, but less excited about owning:
MGB, Midget, Spitfire/GT6, Ford Capri
Like to own, but harder to get parts?
Lancia Beta, Lancia Monte Carlo, Fiat 850/124 Sport Spider
Like to own but complicated?
MR2, BMW 6-Series, Porsche 928
Love to hear opinions, especially from those that have bitten off more than they could chew with a first restoration effort...
The easy ones still aren't going to be easy!
You will always have to work around 30 years of bodges.
Don't discount the V8 MGB for a little more driving spirit with easy spares.
If you like the Italians and a challenge, don't forget the Lancia Fulvia.
I've got a V8 MG and had 2 Fulvias so may be biassed.
Probably an MR2 would be good as a bit more modern and better put together in the first place.
You will always have to work around 30 years of bodges.
Don't discount the V8 MGB for a little more driving spirit with easy spares.
If you like the Italians and a challenge, don't forget the Lancia Fulvia.
I've got a V8 MG and had 2 Fulvias so may be biassed.
Probably an MR2 would be good as a bit more modern and better put together in the first place.
Once you tug at the string, the ball will unravel with a resto, and the costs will spiral.
There are no easy ones as said. What seem like simple cheap jobs will soon have a knock on and you’ll find yourself stripping back most of the car. The wheeler dealer jobs are only partly shown and in reality will have a ton of man hours behind them.
Be prepared to sink money and time into any project, otherwise you’ll do a half arsed job or quit half way through.
There are no easy ones as said. What seem like simple cheap jobs will soon have a knock on and you’ll find yourself stripping back most of the car. The wheeler dealer jobs are only partly shown and in reality will have a ton of man hours behind them.
Be prepared to sink money and time into any project, otherwise you’ll do a half arsed job or quit half way through.
I'll only speak about what I know:
Uncle had a 60s MGB for decades, and it was a running battle against rust. He was too tight to fully "sort" the rust out at any one time, so his mechanic kept on endlessly patching, until there was nothing solid on which to patch.
It was simple in the sense it was basic, but the strucural and bodywork issues won't be much different from modern care (unless you get into bonded panels or aluminium stuff that isn't easy to weld). Sourcing parts might be a problem, especially as a lot of value comes from being original.
I did a rebuild a 3s-gte mr2 engine. It was not "complex" as such...you get the guide, follow the instructions..it's still just nuts and bolts mostly.
Luckily the bodywork and electronics were superb on it, so I never needed anything on that side, which is arguably where compexity comes in.
The 16v engine was no real bother to set up and time. Though if you were trying to time up a 32v quad cam engine it will be a different ball game than for the lump under the bonnet of an MGB.
I like the idea of doing this, and my concerns would be
- somewhere dry to store it. An amazing amount of "stuff" comes out of a car when you start to take it apart, and you need to stop it from getting worse
- your appetite for dealing with rust, which from watching car sos appears to be an acid dip for the bare shell
- sourcing parts and a vibrant on line community to remind you which bolt goes where
- I would also need the car to be something I liked, and would enjoy owning. If you're restoring for the sake of restoring you could just buy an old vending machine...
Hth
Ian
Uncle had a 60s MGB for decades, and it was a running battle against rust. He was too tight to fully "sort" the rust out at any one time, so his mechanic kept on endlessly patching, until there was nothing solid on which to patch.
It was simple in the sense it was basic, but the strucural and bodywork issues won't be much different from modern care (unless you get into bonded panels or aluminium stuff that isn't easy to weld). Sourcing parts might be a problem, especially as a lot of value comes from being original.
I did a rebuild a 3s-gte mr2 engine. It was not "complex" as such...you get the guide, follow the instructions..it's still just nuts and bolts mostly.
Luckily the bodywork and electronics were superb on it, so I never needed anything on that side, which is arguably where compexity comes in.
The 16v engine was no real bother to set up and time. Though if you were trying to time up a 32v quad cam engine it will be a different ball game than for the lump under the bonnet of an MGB.
I like the idea of doing this, and my concerns would be
- somewhere dry to store it. An amazing amount of "stuff" comes out of a car when you start to take it apart, and you need to stop it from getting worse
- your appetite for dealing with rust, which from watching car sos appears to be an acid dip for the bare shell
- sourcing parts and a vibrant on line community to remind you which bolt goes where
- I would also need the car to be something I liked, and would enjoy owning. If you're restoring for the sake of restoring you could just buy an old vending machine...
Hth
Ian
This is why I love PH. Thanks, all v helpful, inc. “might aswell buy a vending machine”
Sounds like I need to buy:
- something I want to own
- 80s vs 60s so better built
- decent bodywork so not just battling rust
- electrics not too complex.
I’ve got garage space and ok to spend a bit as and when needed on things I can’t do. On that basis I’d be leaning towards a Mk2 MR2, as used to have one 30 years ago and always fancied another. More thoughts/ideas appreciated!
Sounds like I need to buy:
- something I want to own
- 80s vs 60s so better built
- decent bodywork so not just battling rust
- electrics not too complex.
I’ve got garage space and ok to spend a bit as and when needed on things I can’t do. On that basis I’d be leaning towards a Mk2 MR2, as used to have one 30 years ago and always fancied another. More thoughts/ideas appreciated!
For me the most important thing as a fairly incompetent mechanic is to buy the car you actually want. There is no point restoring a car if you don't enjoy it when finished. Restoring a car is rarely financially advantageous.
From my own experience, avoid rust. Get the most solid example you can afford. Mechanical bits are usually easy to resolve (ish).
Avoid rust. And once more avoid rust!
Good luck.
P.S. Don't forget to avoid rust.
From my own experience, avoid rust. Get the most solid example you can afford. Mechanical bits are usually easy to resolve (ish).
Avoid rust. And once more avoid rust!
Good luck.
P.S. Don't forget to avoid rust.
TVR all day long. 
Chimaera or an S series but ones where all the chassis resto has already been done.
Fibreglass bodies so no rust, steel tubular chassis [and if already restored] then no worries for the immediate future.
Simple mechanically, Rover V8 in the Chimaera, or Ford V6 in the S series.
Both convertible, both pretty quick and both with a fabulous soundtrack...........what's not too like.
Also pretty rare, how many have you seen driving around ?
Oh and as a bonus, the good ones are going up in value.
Test drive a good un and you will buy it !
Chimaera or an S series but ones where all the chassis resto has already been done.
Fibreglass bodies so no rust, steel tubular chassis [and if already restored] then no worries for the immediate future.
Simple mechanically, Rover V8 in the Chimaera, or Ford V6 in the S series.
Both convertible, both pretty quick and both with a fabulous soundtrack...........what's not too like.
Also pretty rare, how many have you seen driving around ?
Oh and as a bonus, the good ones are going up in value.
Test drive a good un and you will buy it !
How about a nice kit... a really nice kit, like a Chesil/Tygan Speedster or an AC Cobra tribute.
Get someone else to refurb a donor chassis and then you do the fun bits yourself with some factory back up.
Get someone else to refurb a donor chassis and then you do the fun bits yourself with some factory back up.
Edited by Iwontlietoyou on Sunday 3rd November 19:05
Edited by Iwontlietoyou on Sunday 3rd November 19:07
I'd reinforce what other have said. Buy a car you desire to ensure you are motivated to finish it and enjoy driving it as a rolling restoration.
If you go for something between say 20 and 30 years old it should hopefully have fairly sound metal and not be too complex to work on. An MR2 sounds like a good call but there are plenty of options that might appeal like an Alfa GTV or Mk1 TT. Something might appreciate a bit in value and cover at least some of your costs.
Try and find an honest seller who is happy to outline their cars bad points as well as the good. Cars sold through online auctions "should" have honest descriptions. You can then decide whether the work that needs doing is within your appetite or capability.
If you go for something between say 20 and 30 years old it should hopefully have fairly sound metal and not be too complex to work on. An MR2 sounds like a good call but there are plenty of options that might appeal like an Alfa GTV or Mk1 TT. Something might appreciate a bit in value and cover at least some of your costs.
Try and find an honest seller who is happy to outline their cars bad points as well as the good. Cars sold through online auctions "should" have honest descriptions. You can then decide whether the work that needs doing is within your appetite or capability.
breamster said:
For me the most important thing as a fairly incompetent mechanic is to buy the car you actually want. There is no point restoring a car if you don't enjoy it when finished. Restoring a car is rarely financially advantageous.
From my own experience, avoid rust. Get the most solid example you can afford. Mechanical bits are usually easy to resolve (ish).
Avoid rust. And once more avoid rust!
Good luck.
P.S. Don't forget to avoid rust.
This 100%. Buy something you lust after because believe me, when you’ve done one corner (of anything) you’ll be thinking “£&@#’$ sake, another three to go!”. You’ll need the motivation of the end result to keep you going at times. From my own experience, avoid rust. Get the most solid example you can afford. Mechanical bits are usually easy to resolve (ish).
Avoid rust. And once more avoid rust!
Good luck.
P.S. Don't forget to avoid rust.
All can I add to “want” and “no rust” is to try to buy an up and running car. Don’t buy a “project”. Trust me once you start taking bits off, you’ll find plenty missing, bodged and worn out.
My first “project” was a TVR Griffith. I thought a quick once over and a new hood would have it ready for the summer. It was off the road for six months initially then every winter after that for six years. It never let me down, I loved it and I sold it for more than I bought it for, but for a road worthy car with FSH and MOT it was an eye opener. Every “toy” I’ve had since has been the same.
Anyway, go for it, enjoy it, but eyes open.
If you're just wanting to learn a few things and are inexperienced, then even doing a few little jobs to keep an already very good condition classic on the road will be more than enough for you. I have a mint Lotus Elan +2 and a 1988 MR2 (with no rust!!) and both have enough little jobs that come up, or just need doing to make them perfect to keep me busy - the lotus a lot more than the MR2 though!
The Lotus, no rust to worry about (if it has a galvernised chassis), but 1960's engineering means there is always something to do to keep it running nicely. The MR2, rust is the biggest issue, but the mechanicals are really very good. Having said that you might just want to refresh the suspension on each corner, etc, and that will keep you more than busy enough.
The Lotus, no rust to worry about (if it has a galvernised chassis), but 1960's engineering means there is always something to do to keep it running nicely. The MR2, rust is the biggest issue, but the mechanicals are really very good. Having said that you might just want to refresh the suspension on each corner, etc, and that will keep you more than busy enough.
bluezedd said:
breamster said:
Avoid rust. And once more avoid rust!
Good luck.
P.S. Don't forget to avoid rust.
I couldn't have put it better myself. Rust is the main thing you can't just chuck parts at to sort (excluding replacing rusty parts).Good luck.
P.S. Don't forget to avoid rust.
I've had a few mr2s and absolutely love them, I currently have a MK2 turbo and a MK1 with supercharged V6 swap. Mechanically they are both quite solid cars, the biggest issue you'll face is rust. They both suffer in the same locations mostly the rear half of the sills, the rear arches and the area just behind the arch. But repair panels are available and general parts availability is pretty good
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