Best way to get a car for a learner driver?
Discussion
Afternoon all,
My daughter is coming up for 17 (
) and wants to learn how to drive. As my wife can't drive due to eyesight problems we only have one car, and even if it wasn't a company car which can't be driven by family members under the age of 25, there's no way she's learning to drive in a 275bhp rear-wheel drive automatic!
This leaves me with something of a conundrum over how I get her into a car?
I know loads of people will rush on here to tell me that lease deals are the spawn of the devil, and not to be touched with a bargepole, but I can't see a better option for a kid? Sure, I could buy an old rust-bucket on its last legs, but I've then still got keep it MOT'ed and maintained with the near-inevitable breakdowns and parts wearing out, to say nothing of paying insurance, whereas I could lease a new Fiat 500 or similar, with insurance included, for around £220 per month.
Has anyone got any experience in this area who could make recommendations? Being in Epsom, insurance isn't going to be cheap if paid separately.
My daughter is coming up for 17 (
) and wants to learn how to drive. As my wife can't drive due to eyesight problems we only have one car, and even if it wasn't a company car which can't be driven by family members under the age of 25, there's no way she's learning to drive in a 275bhp rear-wheel drive automatic!This leaves me with something of a conundrum over how I get her into a car?
I know loads of people will rush on here to tell me that lease deals are the spawn of the devil, and not to be touched with a bargepole, but I can't see a better option for a kid? Sure, I could buy an old rust-bucket on its last legs, but I've then still got keep it MOT'ed and maintained with the near-inevitable breakdowns and parts wearing out, to say nothing of paying insurance, whereas I could lease a new Fiat 500 or similar, with insurance included, for around £220 per month.
Has anyone got any experience in this area who could make recommendations? Being in Epsom, insurance isn't going to be cheap if paid separately.
Don't most leases that include insurance exclude the very young? They wouldn't make any money otherwise!
The only thing I would say about getting a new car for a 17 year old is they will inevitably biff it on something, be much easier to repair if you get get a bumper/door/panel for peanuts and have it fixed than worry about repairing it through a bodyshop to a standard that'll satisfy a lease company.
The only thing I would say about getting a new car for a 17 year old is they will inevitably biff it on something, be much easier to repair if you get get a bumper/door/panel for peanuts and have it fixed than worry about repairing it through a bodyshop to a standard that'll satisfy a lease company.
Got to Autotrader or eBay
Buy a Corsa, Micra, Yaris, Ka or similar, easily found for under £1,000
Then do the insurance. The cost of the insurance is not related to the value of the car as much as the perceived risk of a young driver hitting something, so all the people saying "Why would I spend £2,000 on insurance for a car only worth £500" are missing the point quite widely.
and then she can learn to drive in that with you assisting her alongside formal lessons.
Personally I think the Yaris is the better of those options. They just appear to keep going, and also swerved the boy-racerhood doom that befell the Corsa and Fords, and is not a Micra. Parts won't be expensive and you'll be £200 a month better off
Buy a Corsa, Micra, Yaris, Ka or similar, easily found for under £1,000
Then do the insurance. The cost of the insurance is not related to the value of the car as much as the perceived risk of a young driver hitting something, so all the people saying "Why would I spend £2,000 on insurance for a car only worth £500" are missing the point quite widely.
and then she can learn to drive in that with you assisting her alongside formal lessons.
Personally I think the Yaris is the better of those options. They just appear to keep going, and also swerved the boy-racerhood doom that befell the Corsa and Fords, and is not a Micra. Parts won't be expensive and you'll be £200 a month better off
Edited by Shakermaker on Monday 2nd December 16:24
https://www.arnoldclarkrental.com/dual-control-hir... - while she's learning then get one of those all-in leases that are available from age 17? Looks like Peugeot have restricted theirs to 18, but maybe that would do? https://offers.peugeot.co.uk/just-add-fuel
alangla said:
https://www.arnoldclarkrental.com/dual-control-hir... - while she's learning then get one of those all-in leases that are available from age 17?
That might've been perfect, but unfortunately their closest branch is 76 miles away!! 
As for everyone suggesting "just get a £1k Yaris on Autotrader", I'm not convinced any of you have done the sums???
£1k for the car, then £300 to insure me to drive it - because you can't seemingly get specialist learner insurance without a full driver insured - plus £550 to insure my daughter.
So, that's around £2k for the first year, always assuming nothing goes wrong with it, and the longer we have it, the more likely it is that something is going to go wrong with it.
Granted, for year 2, we won't have the £1k purchase price, but we're still assuming nothing is going to go wrong with it. That's a big assumption for a 15+ year old car with 120k miles on the clock!
Even if it's cheaper to run, what price would you pay for peace of mind knowing your 17yr old daughter probably hasn't broken down on the side of a road at night?
By comparison, if I can get a new leased car for around £220 per month, why would I want to take the old banger approach when there's not all that much in it for the first couple of years?
If you can't/don't want to DIY an older car, are concerned about reliability (esp when she passes her test & is out on her own) and can afford it then your lease idea is going to be your best option.
Likely she will pass sooner than the one lesson a weekers if you take her out for plenty of practice.
Don't try & get her to do things that she hasn't been taught by her instructor regardless of whether you think your way is better as it simply causes confusion.
Went through all this with my sons many years ago!
Likely she will pass sooner than the one lesson a weekers if you take her out for plenty of practice.
Don't try & get her to do things that she hasn't been taught by her instructor regardless of whether you think your way is better as it simply causes confusion.
Went through all this with my sons many years ago!
Just a couple of points, if you decide on the lease (lucky girl!) then don't sort it until she's passed here theory test would be my advice, it'll be a good incentive and it's something they can struggle at passing from what I hear.
Also research the insurance thoroughly, it can be a lot cheaper when they are provisional and not yet passed so worth inquiring about the jump if she passes quickly.
On a wider point it may be worth considering the path this is setting for her, will she be hooked on the new stuff going forward if you lease? (it is harder to go back to a banger for most/everyone and the dealers know it) I'm not trying to be all reverse snobbery here but the banger route has it's merits and the crappy car can inspire or instill a certain car outlook as it were.
I don't think the lease will save money but, it's new and safe(r) and should be more hassle free for you/her.
I'd say perhaps get an older car with 12 months MOT, run it for a year or so, so with a mixture of provisional and her having passed and then you can all review the situation then, as the car you buy will still be worth much the same and a lease will still be an option if she wants it/you will fund it?
Also research the insurance thoroughly, it can be a lot cheaper when they are provisional and not yet passed so worth inquiring about the jump if she passes quickly.
On a wider point it may be worth considering the path this is setting for her, will she be hooked on the new stuff going forward if you lease? (it is harder to go back to a banger for most/everyone and the dealers know it) I'm not trying to be all reverse snobbery here but the banger route has it's merits and the crappy car can inspire or instill a certain car outlook as it were.
I don't think the lease will save money but, it's new and safe(r) and should be more hassle free for you/her.
I'd say perhaps get an older car with 12 months MOT, run it for a year or so, so with a mixture of provisional and her having passed and then you can all review the situation then, as the car you buy will still be worth much the same and a lease will still be an option if she wants it/you will fund it?
Kermit power said:
As for everyone suggesting "just get a £1k Yaris on Autotrader", I'm not convinced any of you have done the sums???
£1k for the car, then £300 to insure me to drive it - because you can't seemingly get specialist learner insurance without a full driver insured - plus £550 to insure my daughter.
So, that's around £2k for the first year, always assuming nothing goes wrong with it, and the longer we have it, the more likely it is that something is going to go wrong with it.
Granted, for year 2, we won't have the £1k purchase price, but we're still assuming nothing is going to go wrong with it. That's a big assumption for a 15+ year old car with 120k miles on the clock!
Even if it's cheaper to run, what price would you pay for peace of mind knowing your 17yr old daughter probably hasn't broken down on the side of a road at night?
By comparison, if I can get a new leased car for around £220 per month, why would I want to take the old banger approach when there's not all that much in it for the first couple of years?
The £1K car spend is not 100% gone, 75% is recoverable.......£1k for the car, then £300 to insure me to drive it - because you can't seemingly get specialist learner insurance without a full driver insured - plus £550 to insure my daughter.
So, that's around £2k for the first year, always assuming nothing goes wrong with it, and the longer we have it, the more likely it is that something is going to go wrong with it.
Granted, for year 2, we won't have the £1k purchase price, but we're still assuming nothing is going to go wrong with it. That's a big assumption for a 15+ year old car with 120k miles on the clock!
Even if it's cheaper to run, what price would you pay for peace of mind knowing your 17yr old daughter probably hasn't broken down on the side of a road at night?
By comparison, if I can get a new leased car for around £220 per month, why would I want to take the old banger approach when there's not all that much in it for the first couple of years?
I'd need to see these leases terms but do they come with insurance included for the 'x' years? If so perhaps you need to check the small print if they have a bump in year 1 etc?
These days of mobile phones the being stranded thing is overdone, it's never pleasant but mum and dad rescue is there as is the AA etc (who prioritise ladies on their own)
The insurance is here biggest cost, I would assess here driving, then if ok, bite the bullet and get the car and her insured (you named) and then she's set if and when she passes to just pay extra and carry on?
Scootersp said:
Just a couple of points, if you decide on the lease (lucky girl!) then don't sort it until she's passed here theory test would be my advice, it'll be a good incentive and it's something they can struggle at passing from what I hear.
Also research the insurance thoroughly, it can be a lot cheaper when they are provisional and not yet passed so worth inquiring about the jump if she passes quickly.
On a wider point it may be worth considering the path this is setting for her, will she be hooked on the new stuff going forward if you lease? (it is harder to go back to a banger for most/everyone and the dealers know it) I'm not trying to be all reverse snobbery here but the banger route has it's merits and the crappy car can inspire or instill a certain car outlook as it were.
I don't think the lease will save money but, it's new and safe(r) and should be more hassle free for you/her.
I'd say perhaps get an older car with 12 months MOT, run it for a year or so, so with a mixture of provisional and her having passed and then you can all review the situation then, as the car you buy will still be worth much the same and a lease will still be an option if she wants it/you will fund it?
It's a fair point, but I went through all the calculations back in 2012 or so comparing the costs of my '03 plate MG ZTT-T 260 and S plate 3.0 V6 LWB Shogun which I owned outright, and once I'd factored in all the running costs including maintenance, even doing some of the simpler things like changing brake pads myself, when the Shogun dumped its oil all over a French motorway on holiday, it was a complete no brainer to get shot and get a company car instead of the allowance because the bloody things kept sucking cash out of my wallet at the garage!Also research the insurance thoroughly, it can be a lot cheaper when they are provisional and not yet passed so worth inquiring about the jump if she passes quickly.
On a wider point it may be worth considering the path this is setting for her, will she be hooked on the new stuff going forward if you lease? (it is harder to go back to a banger for most/everyone and the dealers know it) I'm not trying to be all reverse snobbery here but the banger route has it's merits and the crappy car can inspire or instill a certain car outlook as it were.
I don't think the lease will save money but, it's new and safe(r) and should be more hassle free for you/her.
I'd say perhaps get an older car with 12 months MOT, run it for a year or so, so with a mixture of provisional and her having passed and then you can all review the situation then, as the car you buy will still be worth much the same and a lease will still be an option if she wants it/you will fund it?
The other challenge we face now is that when I was 17, it didn't take much more than a socket set to work on old snotters, but today, even on today's old snotters, it just doesn't seem that simple, so it's often enough off to the garage.
The whole thing rather perplexes me... It looks as though I can put her in a new car, including insurance, for about £5k for two years, and I'm picturing in my head a graph whereby as the purchase price of a used car moves towards utter snotter territory, the cost of maintenance increases, to the point where I'm not sure it's worth it? Everything tells me that this shouldn't be the case, but it just seems to be so.
Kermit power said:
The whole thing rather perplexes me... It looks as though I can put her in a new car, including insurance, for about £5k for two years, and I'm picturing in my head a graph whereby as the purchase price of a used car moves towards utter snotter territory, the cost of maintenance increases, to the point where I'm not sure it's worth it? Everything tells me that this shouldn't be the case, but it just seems to be so.
I get you, I think we all go through cycles of older and newer and ultimately cars are money sucking things in general!I think the younger deals with insurance included can be very very attractive as the monthly insurance costs alone on a banger can be a huge proportion of the lease deal monthly cost. I imagine two years insurance for a new driver is give or take £2,500 so half the cost you mention above and so I can see that to then get a banger and run it for two years the most you can save is the remaining £2,500, that would take monumental luck! and so when it's less Mot and repairs etc and you eat into this on paper saving, you could save very little and for two years have been in a run down/less safe car compared to new.
I'm anti new car/leasing etc but it's almost convincing me! (14 year old son so can see it coming)
It was the likelihood of damaging it which swung it for me. I bought my lad an old Corsa. Didn't take long to write it off. I then just sold it for spares and bought another. Wouldn't have liked to go through the process of making the insurance claim for the lease car and then starting again with another brand new car!
I only know the Peugeot scheme ( Just Add Fuel ) and they won't cover a provisional driver on the bundled insurance, regardless of age. Not even with the telematics unit installed.
For the used car option I'd suggest researching something bigger than the usual yoof-hatch, maybe a Mégane or Corolla. Should be cheaper to insure but still common enough for cheap maintenance.
For the used car option I'd suggest researching something bigger than the usual yoof-hatch, maybe a Mégane or Corolla. Should be cheaper to insure but still common enough for cheap maintenance.
Edited by FA57REN on Monday 2nd December 18:20
Would something like this work? Cheap monthlies and only a 2 year deal (just over) so you're not tied in for several years. You'd have to sort your own insurance out but to me it seems decent value for what is an excellent little car and very underrated.
At the end either hand the car back, trade in for something else or pay the final payment and keep it.
https://www.evanshalshaw.com/new-cars/ford/ka-1-2-...
At the end either hand the car back, trade in for something else or pay the final payment and keep it.
https://www.evanshalshaw.com/new-cars/ford/ka-1-2-...
Back when I passed my test (1992) everybody drove an old banger and you thought nothing of it. Over hearing a group of youngsters on the train the other day they all seemed to be driving newish Audi's. One girl mentioned she had a 2010 Fiat 500 and they asked her why she drove a car so old......
No idea how they can afford it (parent's pay I assume) as the thought of driving something like that when I was their age was an impossibility.
My children are 11 and 12 so I have all this to come, but seeing how important it is to have the right things even at this age I don't hold out much hope. I suspect the car to get will be the car all her friends have got, I think my children would die of shame if I made them drive a shed like I currently own.
No idea how they can afford it (parent's pay I assume) as the thought of driving something like that when I was their age was an impossibility.
My children are 11 and 12 so I have all this to come, but seeing how important it is to have the right things even at this age I don't hold out much hope. I suspect the car to get will be the car all her friends have got, I think my children would die of shame if I made them drive a shed like I currently own.
Kermit power said:
That might've been perfect, but unfortunately their closest branch is 76 miles away!!
As for everyone suggesting "just get a £1k Yaris on Autotrader", I'm not convinced any of you have done the sums???
£1k for the car, then £300 to insure me to drive it - because you can't seemingly get specialist learner insurance without a full driver insured - plus £550 to insure my daughter.
So, that's around £2k for the first year, always assuming nothing goes wrong with it, and the longer we have it, the more likely it is that something is going to go wrong with it.
Granted, for year 2, we won't have the £1k purchase price, but we're still assuming nothing is going to go wrong with it. That's a big assumption for a 15+ year old car with 120k miles on the clock!
Even if it's cheaper to run, what price would you pay for peace of mind knowing your 17yr old daughter probably hasn't broken down on the side of a road at night?
By comparison, if I can get a new leased car for around £220 per month, why would I want to take the old banger approach when there's not all that much in it for the first couple of years?
Are you asking for other people's thoughts or are you just here to tell us that you think a lease is the way to go? Seems you've made up your mind how you plan to proceed.As for everyone suggesting "just get a £1k Yaris on Autotrader", I'm not convinced any of you have done the sums???
£1k for the car, then £300 to insure me to drive it - because you can't seemingly get specialist learner insurance without a full driver insured - plus £550 to insure my daughter.
So, that's around £2k for the first year, always assuming nothing goes wrong with it, and the longer we have it, the more likely it is that something is going to go wrong with it.
Granted, for year 2, we won't have the £1k purchase price, but we're still assuming nothing is going to go wrong with it. That's a big assumption for a 15+ year old car with 120k miles on the clock!
Even if it's cheaper to run, what price would you pay for peace of mind knowing your 17yr old daughter probably hasn't broken down on the side of a road at night?
By comparison, if I can get a new leased car for around £220 per month, why would I want to take the old banger approach when there's not all that much in it for the first couple of years?
Kermit power said:
£1k for the car, then £300 to insure me to drive it - because you can't seemingly get specialist learner insurance without a full driver insured
Not so;https://www.wearemarmalade.co.uk/black-box-insuran...
From very recent experience:
Bought son a Fiat Punto 1.2 Active, 06 plate, 80,000 miles, average service history, 4 good tread ditchfinders (Obvs I love him dearly
) and new clutch for £440.00. £150.00 later for front discs and pads, exhaust and some bits, it was good to go. Insured in his own name as a learner via Dayinsure for c£50 pcm with no need to have car under a separate policy enabled him to drive with me instructing him. On passing test, insured via Admiral with black box for c£1,300. Based in West Yorkshire.
Obviously, insurance quotes vary based on location, risk, car etc but this route gave him lots of practice with his ever patient dad. The Punto is not the most sophisticated steed but it's cheap and after 3,000 miles hasn't put a foot wrong. The fact that I fitted him a new stereo and mahoosive sub may have increased the car's street cred somewhat. YMMV.
Bought son a Fiat Punto 1.2 Active, 06 plate, 80,000 miles, average service history, 4 good tread ditchfinders (Obvs I love him dearly
) and new clutch for £440.00. £150.00 later for front discs and pads, exhaust and some bits, it was good to go. Insured in his own name as a learner via Dayinsure for c£50 pcm with no need to have car under a separate policy enabled him to drive with me instructing him. On passing test, insured via Admiral with black box for c£1,300. Based in West Yorkshire.Obviously, insurance quotes vary based on location, risk, car etc but this route gave him lots of practice with his ever patient dad
. The Punto is not the most sophisticated steed but it's cheap and after 3,000 miles hasn't put a foot wrong. The fact that I fitted him a new stereo and mahoosive sub may have increased the car's street cred somewhat. YMMV.Following with interest. Same home town as the OP and my eldest daughter turns 17 next year. I know zip about leases and I am old school: start snotter with cash, work your way up when you can afford it. Our current fleet won't be in any way insurable for her so I started to think about what I might do.
My current thinking is swap the MCS for something like an Up or Mii Sport (Group 2 insurance) and swap my other weekend toy for something that I can use a bit more year-round. I don't mind the idea of a small, low-spec car having had both an Aygo and 500 since I bought the toy. £4k can buy you a very decent 40k miles example that will hold its value pretty well over 2 years. Not too uncool for the yoof either. What I have not yet investigated is insurance costs given I / my wife will likely use it (hence aversion to black box). Given daughter #1 is likely to go to uni/college 12 months later its a short term need for her and daughter #2 is behind her by a few years. Leasing might make sense if we have a total family need for something over 5 years but I'm clueless about leases and damage risk has to be considered.
Will be interested to know the outcome for the OP and other experiences.
My current thinking is swap the MCS for something like an Up or Mii Sport (Group 2 insurance) and swap my other weekend toy for something that I can use a bit more year-round. I don't mind the idea of a small, low-spec car having had both an Aygo and 500 since I bought the toy. £4k can buy you a very decent 40k miles example that will hold its value pretty well over 2 years. Not too uncool for the yoof either. What I have not yet investigated is insurance costs given I / my wife will likely use it (hence aversion to black box). Given daughter #1 is likely to go to uni/college 12 months later its a short term need for her and daughter #2 is behind her by a few years. Leasing might make sense if we have a total family need for something over 5 years but I'm clueless about leases and damage risk has to be considered.
Will be interested to know the outcome for the OP and other experiences.
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