MPV - £12k budget - Advice please
Discussion
All,
Appreciate a lot of you will cringe at the 3 letter acronym. However, I still need advice on what to get.
I've got 3 kids, aged 5, 3 and 1. Done loads of research and it looks as though my best bets are S-Max, Touran, Alhambra or Sharan. I don't like the Galaxy at all so not factoring that in.
The big thing for me is getting 3 car seats across the second row. I don't want to use the third row as that'll be down to improve boot space. Plus I don't like the thought of the crumple zone being so close to my kids if it can be helped.
Ideally I'd like a built in nav system and do appreciate some luxuries like a decent infotainment system and heated seats. Having looked at the S-Max it looks like the 2015 refresh is a bit out of budget. I know my Fords quite well but when it comes to German cars I'm incredibly inexperienced. I've heard there can be issues with the engine on the S-Max but not sure on the detail.
I'm currently running a Kuga (wife is in the back middle seat) but its just not big enough for us anymore. I run a Jag XE as my commute car but thats going in April to make way for a shed (another reason I've decided to join the forum despite being a long time reader of it).
Any advice is much appreciated. Apologies if this is in the wrong place, I didn't spot an MPV section.
Cheers
Appreciate a lot of you will cringe at the 3 letter acronym. However, I still need advice on what to get.
I've got 3 kids, aged 5, 3 and 1. Done loads of research and it looks as though my best bets are S-Max, Touran, Alhambra or Sharan. I don't like the Galaxy at all so not factoring that in.
The big thing for me is getting 3 car seats across the second row. I don't want to use the third row as that'll be down to improve boot space. Plus I don't like the thought of the crumple zone being so close to my kids if it can be helped.
Ideally I'd like a built in nav system and do appreciate some luxuries like a decent infotainment system and heated seats. Having looked at the S-Max it looks like the 2015 refresh is a bit out of budget. I know my Fords quite well but when it comes to German cars I'm incredibly inexperienced. I've heard there can be issues with the engine on the S-Max but not sure on the detail.
I'm currently running a Kuga (wife is in the back middle seat) but its just not big enough for us anymore. I run a Jag XE as my commute car but thats going in April to make way for a shed (another reason I've decided to join the forum despite being a long time reader of it).
Any advice is much appreciated. Apologies if this is in the wrong place, I didn't spot an MPV section.
Cheers
I guess because from research the typical experience has been that 7 seaters are more likely to fit 3 across the middle row. Didn't know the A6 could take 3 car seats if i'm honest. But would worry with the potential for repair bills with an Audi.
I agree, if I could get a nicely spec'd Alhambra/Sharan I'd jump at it, but at my budget I think you get a bit more for your money interior wise with Ford. Happy to be told otherwise though.
Why are you unsure about the Touran? less value for money vs S-Max?
I agree, if I could get a nicely spec'd Alhambra/Sharan I'd jump at it, but at my budget I think you get a bit more for your money interior wise with Ford. Happy to be told otherwise though.
Why are you unsure about the Touran? less value for money vs S-Max?
I'm on my second S Max of the pre-facelift type and they're ace.
Your budget will buy you one of the best. Odd range though: you can't get a powerful petrol with a manual box (the 2.0 203bhp / 237bhp petrols are Powershift only, the later 1.5 is available as a manual but I've not driven one so don't know how well the 150ish bhp works). Sadly the Focus ST-engined, 220bhp 2.5 only lasted until 2009 so they're getting a bit old now. Mine was fantastic to drive though.
My BIL had a 2.0 TDCi manual (163bhp) which he reckoned was enough, and my current 2.2 TDCi (200bhp) manual is quite a drive. But...
..if you spend even half your time on urban driving you'll be forever chasing emissions issues with the 2.2. It's a PSA engine, which should be OK, but DOES NOT like town driving for any length of time.
Practicality-wise, 3 kids across the middle is viable but beware if any are still in child seats: access to seat belts is tight. The boot is great though, even with the 7 seats up I can still get quite a bit in. If you run out of space a set of roof bars is c£70 on eBay, just make sure you get a set compatible with the panoramic roof (if you have that).
They drive well, and are basically a slightly taller Mondeo so handling is good and they fit in parking spaces. Traction in the snow is rubbish, but I suspect that's not an issue unless you live in the Highlands.
Overall I'd recommend them, and I'm likely to change mine this year, but I'm in the same boat as you in that my budget probably won't quite stretch to an "interesting" version of the facelifted model so may leave it a year.
Your budget will buy you one of the best. Odd range though: you can't get a powerful petrol with a manual box (the 2.0 203bhp / 237bhp petrols are Powershift only, the later 1.5 is available as a manual but I've not driven one so don't know how well the 150ish bhp works). Sadly the Focus ST-engined, 220bhp 2.5 only lasted until 2009 so they're getting a bit old now. Mine was fantastic to drive though.
My BIL had a 2.0 TDCi manual (163bhp) which he reckoned was enough, and my current 2.2 TDCi (200bhp) manual is quite a drive. But...
..if you spend even half your time on urban driving you'll be forever chasing emissions issues with the 2.2. It's a PSA engine, which should be OK, but DOES NOT like town driving for any length of time.
Practicality-wise, 3 kids across the middle is viable but beware if any are still in child seats: access to seat belts is tight. The boot is great though, even with the 7 seats up I can still get quite a bit in. If you run out of space a set of roof bars is c£70 on eBay, just make sure you get a set compatible with the panoramic roof (if you have that).
They drive well, and are basically a slightly taller Mondeo so handling is good and they fit in parking spaces. Traction in the snow is rubbish, but I suspect that's not an issue unless you live in the Highlands.
Overall I'd recommend them, and I'm likely to change mine this year, but I'm in the same boat as you in that my budget probably won't quite stretch to an "interesting" version of the facelifted model so may leave it a year.
Yeah, the Kuga we've got is the 1.5tdci which although isn't fast, its just about enough for it. Returns 45mpg so can't complain too much.
I'm around Warwickshire and my wife will be using it for the school run and shopping trips mainly. So it'll be quite a bit of town driving. We also drive down to Swansea once a month so it'll get a good run then for a DPF if I go diesel.
My FIL has the 2.2TDCI in his Mondeo. He has had some DPF issues which I told him he'd get. Doesn't seem to grasp the concept of giving it a good run though.
I also hate the convers+ system so really want to avoid getting one with that in it.
I'm around Warwickshire and my wife will be using it for the school run and shopping trips mainly. So it'll be quite a bit of town driving. We also drive down to Swansea once a month so it'll get a good run then for a DPF if I go diesel.
My FIL has the 2.2TDCI in his Mondeo. He has had some DPF issues which I told him he'd get. Doesn't seem to grasp the concept of giving it a good run though.
I also hate the convers+ system so really want to avoid getting one with that in it.
oOJamesOo said:
Yeah, the Kuga we've got is the 1.5tdci which although isn't fast, its just about enough for it. Returns 45mpg so can't complain too much.
I'm around Warwickshire and my wife will be using it for the school run and shopping trips mainly. So it'll be quite a bit of town driving. We also drive down to Swansea once a month so it'll get a good run then for a DPF if I go diesel.
My FIL has the 2.2TDCI in his Mondeo. He has had some DPF issues which I told him he'd get. Doesn't seem to grasp the concept of giving it a good run though.
I also hate the convers+ system so really want to avoid getting one with that in it.
Funny how different people have different priorities, isn't it: Convers+ wasn't even a consideration for me because I don't listen to music / radio when driving so couldn't care less. Bigger priority for me was manual and a tow bar.I'm around Warwickshire and my wife will be using it for the school run and shopping trips mainly. So it'll be quite a bit of town driving. We also drive down to Swansea once a month so it'll get a good run then for a DPF if I go diesel.
My FIL has the 2.2TDCI in his Mondeo. He has had some DPF issues which I told him he'd get. Doesn't seem to grasp the concept of giving it a good run though.
I also hate the convers+ system so really want to avoid getting one with that in it.
For reference, mine has had 2 x DPF cleans in the last year and the supplementary injector and pressure balance pipe changed, which eventually fixed the continuous appearance of the EML. Around town, about once a fortnight it will spurt out a huge plume of grey ash from the exhaust which the (somewhat unhelpful) S Max Owners' Club forum considers to be "normal".
I wouldn't buy another diesel.
Turbobanana said:
Funny how different people have different priorities, isn't it: Convers+ wasn't even a consideration for me because I don't listen to music / radio when driving so couldn't care less. Bigger priority for me was manual and a tow bar.
For reference, mine has had 2 x DPF cleans in the last year and the supplementary injector and pressure balance pipe changed, which eventually fixed the continuous appearance of the EML. Around town, about once a fortnight it will spurt out a huge plume of grey ash from the exhaust which the (somewhat unhelpful) S Max Owners' Club forum considers to be "normal".
I wouldn't buy another diesel.
Strange, my FIL's isn't that bad. He's had it since new, 7 years in total with pretty much 95% town driving. Only started getting the DPF issue in the past year. Maybe the DPF just gets hotter in the Mondeo?For reference, mine has had 2 x DPF cleans in the last year and the supplementary injector and pressure balance pipe changed, which eventually fixed the continuous appearance of the EML. Around town, about once a fortnight it will spurt out a huge plume of grey ash from the exhaust which the (somewhat unhelpful) S Max Owners' Club forum considers to be "normal".
I wouldn't buy another diesel.
How much were the DPF cleans? Was the injector and pressure balance pipe expensive?
Does seem odd if its a big plume, I'd expect a bit of grey/white smoke but not plumes of the stuff.
Why preference for the manual? Driving style or concerns on reliability of auto boxes?
S Max is best in class, they hold value though so expect to get something older for your money.
We have 4 kids, aged 6, 5, 3 and 8 months and obviously have a 7 seater. Looked at all sorts but a lot have a smaller seat in the middle of the middle row (if that makes sense), meaning limited space for car seats. The S Max is fine, as is the Galaxy and Sharan, but not much else is. We ended up getting a Peugeot 5008, which has the same size seats, so all good for 3 car seats in the middle row. We actually have 2 rotating ones either side and they can still rotate with a child seat in the middle.
Would have loved an S Max but couldn't justify the money for something nice, just to get filled with kids crap.
Pros
Lot cheaper than a S Max, paid 10k for our 64 plate 2 years back. Equivalent S max was 16k.
Cheap VED, cheap insurance, cheap to run with 50mpg+ easily achievable
Reliable, not had a single problem with ours in 2 years and 20k
Very comfortable and still has a boot with 7 seats up
Alright kit, has cruise, decent aircon, integrated blinds
Cons
Residuals are awful
Not a particularly good looking car
Boots bigger on an S Max
We have 4 kids, aged 6, 5, 3 and 8 months and obviously have a 7 seater. Looked at all sorts but a lot have a smaller seat in the middle of the middle row (if that makes sense), meaning limited space for car seats. The S Max is fine, as is the Galaxy and Sharan, but not much else is. We ended up getting a Peugeot 5008, which has the same size seats, so all good for 3 car seats in the middle row. We actually have 2 rotating ones either side and they can still rotate with a child seat in the middle.
Would have loved an S Max but couldn't justify the money for something nice, just to get filled with kids crap.
Pros
Lot cheaper than a S Max, paid 10k for our 64 plate 2 years back. Equivalent S max was 16k.
Cheap VED, cheap insurance, cheap to run with 50mpg+ easily achievable
Reliable, not had a single problem with ours in 2 years and 20k
Very comfortable and still has a boot with 7 seats up
Alright kit, has cruise, decent aircon, integrated blinds
Cons
Residuals are awful
Not a particularly good looking car
Boots bigger on an S Max
zedx19 said:
S Max is best in class, they hold value though so expect to get something older for your money.
We have 4 kids, aged 6, 5, 3 and 8 months and obviously have a 7 seater. Looked at all sorts but a lot have a smaller seat in the middle of the middle row (if that makes sense), meaning limited space for car seats. The S Max is fine, as is the Galaxy and Sharan, but not much else is. We ended up getting a Peugeot 5008, which has the same size seats, so all good for 3 car seats in the middle row. We actually have 2 rotating ones either side and they can still rotate with a child seat in the middle.
Would have loved an S Max but couldn't justify the money for something nice, just to get filled with kids crap.
Pros
Lot cheaper than a S Max, paid 10k for our 64 plate 2 years back. Equivalent S max was 16k.
Cheap VED, cheap insurance, cheap to run with 50mpg+ easily achievable
Reliable, not had a single problem with ours in 2 years and 20k
Very comfortable and still has a boot with 7 seats up
Alright kit, has cruise, decent aircon, integrated blinds
Cons
Residuals are awful
Not a particularly good looking car
Boots bigger on an S Max
Yeah its good and bad the S-Max holds its value so well. I think we'll probably keep this next car for a good few years so not sure we'll see much upside in the strong residual. So maybe the 5008 is a better option.We have 4 kids, aged 6, 5, 3 and 8 months and obviously have a 7 seater. Looked at all sorts but a lot have a smaller seat in the middle of the middle row (if that makes sense), meaning limited space for car seats. The S Max is fine, as is the Galaxy and Sharan, but not much else is. We ended up getting a Peugeot 5008, which has the same size seats, so all good for 3 car seats in the middle row. We actually have 2 rotating ones either side and they can still rotate with a child seat in the middle.
Would have loved an S Max but couldn't justify the money for something nice, just to get filled with kids crap.
Pros
Lot cheaper than a S Max, paid 10k for our 64 plate 2 years back. Equivalent S max was 16k.
Cheap VED, cheap insurance, cheap to run with 50mpg+ easily achievable
Reliable, not had a single problem with ours in 2 years and 20k
Very comfortable and still has a boot with 7 seats up
Alright kit, has cruise, decent aircon, integrated blinds
Cons
Residuals are awful
Not a particularly good looking car
Boots bigger on an S Max
Main thing that puts me off is how much flack the French cars get. I could also go Grand C4 for low money but you just hear so much negativity around them it makes me wonder. Nice to hear you've had a good experience with it though.
Is this any help?
https://www.whatcar.com/news/best-cars-for-three-c...
Mainly big players but some good reviews on fitting 3 car seats.
https://www.whatcar.com/news/best-cars-for-three-c...
Mainly big players but some good reviews on fitting 3 car seats.
We went through the same as you. You won't get 3 kid seats in the A6. It came down to S max Vs grand picasso . Went grand picasso. Got a 9 month old one with 3800 miles for £14k. (£12k off list) Vs a 3 or 4 year old s max. Will be kept until it dies anyway. The picasso is great. Pains me to say so but it's quieter sitting at 70 on the motorway than my 335d!
Would i buy an older picasso. Probably not. £12k will get you one in warranty which you can extend. Get the right spec and they are loaded with kit too. I believe the 5008 is basically the same car.
Toyota verso is your other choice boring but reliable I am sure.
Would i buy an older picasso. Probably not. £12k will get you one in warranty which you can extend. Get the right spec and they are loaded with kit too. I believe the 5008 is basically the same car.
Toyota verso is your other choice boring but reliable I am sure.
markymark34 said:
We went through the same as you. You won't get 3 kid seats in the A6. It came down to S max Vs grand picasso . Went grand picasso. Got a 9 month old one with 3800 miles for £14k. (£12k off list) Vs a 3 or 4 year old s max. Will be kept until it dies anyway. The picasso is great. Pains me to say so but it's quieter sitting at 70 on the motorway than my 335d!
Would i buy an older picasso. Probably not. £12k will get you one in warranty which you can extend. Get the right spec and they are loaded with kit too. I believe the 5008 is basically the same car.
Toyota verso is your other choice boring but reliable I am sure.
Have to agree with this. My sister has 3 kids and an old XC90 which is always going wrong and costs her a fortune to maintain. I have suggested a C4 Grand Picasso - I have't driven one but they look great value for money - a 7 seater, super practical MPV with some manufacturers warranty left for around £12k. Unless you go off road then MPVs trump SUV's if you need practicality. Would i buy an older picasso. Probably not. £12k will get you one in warranty which you can extend. Get the right spec and they are loaded with kit too. I believe the 5008 is basically the same car.
Toyota verso is your other choice boring but reliable I am sure.
I'd say the S Max is the way to go & if you look for a Titanium X Sport you'll get one with all the kit.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Ecosseven said:
Have to agree with this. My sister has 3 kids and an old XC90 which is always going wrong and costs her a fortune to maintain. I have suggested a C4 Grand Picasso - I have't driven one but they look great value for money - a 7 seater, super practical MPV with some manufacturers warranty left for around £12k. Unless you go off road then MPVs trump SUV's if you need practicality.
That’s a great deal. Where did you get that? Was it a base spec one?I don’t go off road so no issues there. Town commutes and monthly long distance trip (150 miles each way).
markymark34 said:
We went through the same as you. You won't get 3 kid seats in the A6. It came down to S max Vs grand picasso . Went grand picasso. Got a 9 month old one with 3800 miles for £14k. (£12k off list) Vs a 3 or 4 year old s max. Will be kept until it dies anyway. The picasso is great. Pains me to say so but it's quieter sitting at 70 on the motorway than my 335d!
Would i buy an older picasso. Probably not. £12k will get you one in warranty which you can extend. Get the right spec and they are loaded with kit too. I believe the 5008 is basically the same car.
Toyota verso is your other choice boring but reliable I am sure.
I actually test drove a verso. Bit cramped in the back and I found the road noise awful on the A roads. It’s looking like it’s between a grand Picasso and the s-max. The 5008 is good value but assume it’s the same platform as the Picasso and I much prefer the look of the latter. Would i buy an older picasso. Probably not. £12k will get you one in warranty which you can extend. Get the right spec and they are loaded with kit too. I believe the 5008 is basically the same car.
Toyota verso is your other choice boring but reliable I am sure.
Picasso is the same as the 5008, however the ones I viewed seemed to have poorer build quality inside. Everyone we looked at the Stop/Start button lettering had worn out and this was on 2-3 year old cars! I struggled to find a manual Grand Picasso as well, most seemed to have the worse automatic gearbox I've ever tried.
oOJamesOo said:
Turbobanana said:
Funny how different people have different priorities, isn't it: Convers+ wasn't even a consideration for me because I don't listen to music / radio when driving so couldn't care less. Bigger priority for me was manual and a tow bar.
For reference, mine has had 2 x DPF cleans in the last year and the supplementary injector and pressure balance pipe changed, which eventually fixed the continuous appearance of the EML. Around town, about once a fortnight it will spurt out a huge plume of grey ash from the exhaust which the (somewhat unhelpful) S Max Owners' Club forum considers to be "normal".
I wouldn't buy another diesel.
Strange, my FIL's isn't that bad. He's had it since new, 7 years in total with pretty much 95% town driving. Only started getting the DPF issue in the past year. Maybe the DPF just gets hotter in the Mondeo?For reference, mine has had 2 x DPF cleans in the last year and the supplementary injector and pressure balance pipe changed, which eventually fixed the continuous appearance of the EML. Around town, about once a fortnight it will spurt out a huge plume of grey ash from the exhaust which the (somewhat unhelpful) S Max Owners' Club forum considers to be "normal".
I wouldn't buy another diesel.
How much were the DPF cleans? Was the injector and pressure balance pipe expensive?
Does seem odd if its a big plume, I'd expect a bit of grey/white smoke but not plumes of the stuff.
Why preference for the manual? Driving style or concerns on reliability of auto boxes?
"Plume" might have been a bit strong: it's certainly visible in the rear view mirror and you can feel it happening when acceleration hard in 3rd - it goes a bit "fluffy".
Preference for manual was driving style, plus the clever Powershift was only available on the 2.0: the 2.2 got a dimwitted standard auto box.
Reading comments above it seems like the 5008 / Grand Picasso are options: I may even look at those myself. S Max Titanium X Sport (as mine is) certainly looks good, drives well and has all the kit you need - I guess you need to go drive a few cars to see what you think.
I've owned two S-Maxes (S-Maxeses?) and both were great. I had the 2.5T petrol - that was a beast and would scare passengers, hot hatch drivers, and even dusted my mate's Evo Wagon down a motorway sliproad. Sadly rare now, and most examples will be tatty. I also had the 2.2 TDCi, with slush box. Nice car, but the DPF failure (despite me doing 30 odd motorway miles every day) kind of took the shine off it for me.
I also test drove the 240ps PowerShift petrol, which felt surprisingly gutless. Everyone says to avoid the PowerShift, especially on the diesels - apparently the dual-mass flywheel tends to disintegrate, leaving you with a big bill.
Anyway, despite this, I can heartily recommend the S-Max. It's car-like to drive, looks good, and won't make you feel like your motoring life is over. Get the top trim level and it'll be loaded with goodies.
We loaded mine with three boys, ages 5-11. They'd previously been sat three abreast on the rear bench of my Octavia. They were constantly fighting and poking at each other. Split them across two rows, and suddenly everything was peace and calm.
I also test drove the 240ps PowerShift petrol, which felt surprisingly gutless. Everyone says to avoid the PowerShift, especially on the diesels - apparently the dual-mass flywheel tends to disintegrate, leaving you with a big bill.
Anyway, despite this, I can heartily recommend the S-Max. It's car-like to drive, looks good, and won't make you feel like your motoring life is over. Get the top trim level and it'll be loaded with goodies.
We loaded mine with three boys, ages 5-11. They'd previously been sat three abreast on the rear bench of my Octavia. They were constantly fighting and poking at each other. Split them across two rows, and suddenly everything was peace and calm.
Edited by Witchfinder on Wednesday 8th January 09:12
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