Should I begin practising banegrnomics?
Discussion
Hello,
I bought my first car, a Honda Civic MK8, about 1.5 years ago. I am really happy with the car, reliable and fairly fun to drive. Not so happy with fuel economy - ~33mpg average. I have become a little bit bored of it but not much. However, in the past few weeks the thought that I over paid, or perhaps, didn't need to pay that much for it has been bugging me.
The car was £3k and had done 25k miles which was well below average for 2007 model, FSH included. The price was also well below the market value at the time (£4.5kish) and it still is (can sell it for £3k if patient).
This was reflected in the condition, no doubt, but I can't help but wonder - was the ownership experience worth those £2k extra over a cheaper 100k+ model?
I have been looking at cars and prices and ways to save money on my car. The worry is that I'm sitting on something that still has some value but in a couple of years it will be down at the breakers anyway. If I am going there, why not do it in a car thats not worth much anyway?
Either way here is a chart I made to show my thinking.
Option 1 will be to buy the same car, as I quite enjoy it, and pocket the potential £2k difference.
Option 2 is to buy something to maximise savings and pocket thousands over a couple of years.
Option 3 is to keep my current car, as it has a little of sentimental value and hope that the price I paid will be to some extent worth it.
Insurance is difficult as I'm a new driver so I have taken the average difference between the prices of both cars - £200. I am not sure of maintenance on an Aygo.
This is what I've done to my car (I do the work myself):
- brakes £125
- spark plugs £40
- A/C recharge - £35
- 4 x Michellin Tyres (part worn) fitted - £90
- shocks and springs £180
- drop links + bushings £25
- boot struts and wipers £25
- service (oil, filters etc.) - 2018 - £60, 2019 - £45
What are your thoughts? Maybe go with Aygo and use the spare cash to buy something fun for the weekend - MR2? Or keep the Civic since it is just about fun enough to satisfy as my only car?
I bought my first car, a Honda Civic MK8, about 1.5 years ago. I am really happy with the car, reliable and fairly fun to drive. Not so happy with fuel economy - ~33mpg average. I have become a little bit bored of it but not much. However, in the past few weeks the thought that I over paid, or perhaps, didn't need to pay that much for it has been bugging me.
The car was £3k and had done 25k miles which was well below average for 2007 model, FSH included. The price was also well below the market value at the time (£4.5kish) and it still is (can sell it for £3k if patient).
This was reflected in the condition, no doubt, but I can't help but wonder - was the ownership experience worth those £2k extra over a cheaper 100k+ model?
I have been looking at cars and prices and ways to save money on my car. The worry is that I'm sitting on something that still has some value but in a couple of years it will be down at the breakers anyway. If I am going there, why not do it in a car thats not worth much anyway?
Either way here is a chart I made to show my thinking.
Option 1 will be to buy the same car, as I quite enjoy it, and pocket the potential £2k difference.
Option 2 is to buy something to maximise savings and pocket thousands over a couple of years.
Option 3 is to keep my current car, as it has a little of sentimental value and hope that the price I paid will be to some extent worth it.
Insurance is difficult as I'm a new driver so I have taken the average difference between the prices of both cars - £200. I am not sure of maintenance on an Aygo.
This is what I've done to my car (I do the work myself):
- brakes £125
- spark plugs £40
- A/C recharge - £35
- 4 x Michellin Tyres (part worn) fitted - £90
- shocks and springs £180
- drop links + bushings £25
- boot struts and wipers £25
- service (oil, filters etc.) - 2018 - £60, 2019 - £45
What are your thoughts? Maybe go with Aygo and use the spare cash to buy something fun for the weekend - MR2? Or keep the Civic since it is just about fun enough to satisfy as my only car?
Macneil said:
Eh? You've spent £600 on parts, but not included that in your chart? What you're allowing for repairs and maintenance is highly unfeasible. And going from a Civic to an Aygo probably won't suit you.
It’s in the chart under repairs as £260 which is the total value divided by roughly two years of ownership. The oil etc. is under maintenance. I have considered the change of type of car but I can adjust I suppose. Especially with that much money on my pocket.
Mr Tidy said:
If you got a good deal on your current car I'd just keep it - it's not like you are losing money on it!
But if you change you can end up with buying a car with someone else's problems.
A point many people I have discussed this with made - a car in the £1k price range is undeniably a risk. I agree with that but have managed to convince myself that if it’s Jap it will be fine. It probably won’t though and I’ll end up losing money...But if you change you can end up with buying a car with someone else's problems.
oldcynic said:
If you’ve got a car which you know to be reliable and you enjoy driving it then make the most of it. Changing the car for the take off saving a few hundred quid alone is a risky move.
But by my calculations it’s in the thousands! Even if I just buy the same car for £2k less. I doubt repairs will be that much more to offset the £2k, though I’ve never owned an unreliable car.stevemcs said:
A 1k Aygo is mainly french, they rust, the electrics are a little iffy and the exhaust/cat fall apart.
You would be better off buying an early ford ka with the longest mot you can find for £200 and weigh it in next year.
Aren't they made in the Czech Republic with mainly Japanese mechanical bits e.g. Daihatsu engine??You would be better off buying an early ford ka with the longest mot you can find for £200 and weigh it in next year.
You mention that you are a bit bored of your car.
Imagine how bored you will be in 5 years time!
Now imagine how bored you will be driving an Aygo in 5 years time!
In my opinion it depends how much the money means to you.
If you see a car as A-B cheapest and most reliably either keep the one you have or get the Aygo if you can stomach it.
If you like driving and are bored after 1.5 years then it’s unlikely that you’ll keep it for the next 5. But it depends on your financial situation.
Everyone could drove something cheap but I, for one, like a nice, newish car that I like sitting in.
I wouldn’t trade a known quantity (your Civic) for a less known quantity (a more tired Civic) for a few quid. It’s unlikely to cost you less in the long run. The maintenance won’t be less for a much leggier car.
Imagine how bored you will be in 5 years time!
Now imagine how bored you will be driving an Aygo in 5 years time!
In my opinion it depends how much the money means to you.
If you see a car as A-B cheapest and most reliably either keep the one you have or get the Aygo if you can stomach it.
If you like driving and are bored after 1.5 years then it’s unlikely that you’ll keep it for the next 5. But it depends on your financial situation.
Everyone could drove something cheap but I, for one, like a nice, newish car that I like sitting in.
I wouldn’t trade a known quantity (your Civic) for a less known quantity (a more tired Civic) for a few quid. It’s unlikely to cost you less in the long run. The maintenance won’t be less for a much leggier car.
stevemcs said:
A 1k Aygo is mainly french, they rust, the electrics are a little iffy and the exhaust/cat fall apart.
You would be better off buying an early ford ka with the longest mot you can find for £200 and weigh it in next year.
Disagree on the Aygo/C1/107; they’re incredibly tough little cars. Only weaknesses we experienced with them in the trade were water pump leaks and premature clutch wear (later clutches were larger if memory serves). Only time we replaced a cat was when somehow a lady managed to put diesel in the tank and poisoned the cat!You would be better off buying an early ford ka with the longest mot you can find for £200 and weigh it in next year.
The amount of them you still see running around despite probably little or no maintenance attests to them being pretty decent!
itcaptainslow said:
Disagree on the Aygo/C1/107; they’re incredibly tough little cars. Only weaknesses we experienced with them in the trade were water pump leaks and premature clutch wear (later clutches were larger if memory serves). Only time we replaced a cat was when somehow a lady managed to put diesel in the tank and poisoned the cat!
The amount of them you still see running around despite probably little or no maintenance attests to them being pretty decent!
Agreed. Mrs C-J has failed to kill hers despite zero-mechanical sympathy. The amount of them you still see running around despite probably little or no maintenance attests to them being pretty decent!
ps. Iain - small world, we've met at car meets in the SMS days and you actually confirmed some C1/107 service schedule info to me on the aforementioned 107.
Not sure you would remember me as i only popped along occasionally - but i certainly recall your lovely ZS.
If your main objective is saving money then to be honest I don't see any real benefit in selling what you have unless you are really strapped in which case buy sell it and buy an Aygo or whatever and hope for the best.
If your thinking of using the cash from sale to buy an Aygo then a cheap second car, MX-5 or whatever then that's not a money saving route. Two lots of tax and insurance straight away.
I have an MX-5 as a second car for fun and I realised last.month going through some paperwork it has done under 1000 miles in the last year. It's not really a cost saving excersize to buy a second car but when I drive it I remember how much fun it is.
If your thinking of using the cash from sale to buy an Aygo then a cheap second car, MX-5 or whatever then that's not a money saving route. Two lots of tax and insurance straight away.
I have an MX-5 as a second car for fun and I realised last.month going through some paperwork it has done under 1000 miles in the last year. It's not really a cost saving excersize to buy a second car but when I drive it I remember how much fun it is.
nojoeing said:
But by my calculations it’s in the thousands! Even if I just buy the same car for £2k less. I doubt repairs will be that much more to offset the £2k, though I’ve never owned an unreliable car.
That relies on being able to sell your current car for £3000, does it not? Can you do that?C-J said:
itcaptainslow said:
Disagree on the Aygo/C1/107; they’re incredibly tough little cars. Only weaknesses we experienced with them in the trade were water pump leaks and premature clutch wear (later clutches were larger if memory serves). Only time we replaced a cat was when somehow a lady managed to put diesel in the tank and poisoned the cat!
The amount of them you still see running around despite probably little or no maintenance attests to them being pretty decent!
Agreed. Mrs C-J has failed to kill hers despite zero-mechanical sympathy. The amount of them you still see running around despite probably little or no maintenance attests to them being pretty decent!
ps. Iain - small world, we've met at car meets in the SMS days and you actually confirmed some C1/107 service schedule info to me on the aforementioned 107.
Not sure you would remember me as i only popped along occasionally - but i certainly recall your lovely ZS.
Despite the torsion beam rear suspension I'm rather fond of your generation of Civic. Had one for a week as a loan car when my Polo was in for bodywork repairs and really liked it. Bought a next gen (2013) Civic with a very short test drive a few years later though and really didn't get on with that car. I think that if you like your car, then stick with it. You know a bit of the history and what has been done on it and the low mileage should mean that it lasts you 5 years easily. A cheaper example may have more issues, more worn out parts and skipped maintenance etc, so cost you more to run. As for other costs, the Aygo will save you on fuel and tax for sure just running about locally but if you're doing more dual carriageway/motorway driving at 70mph+ then you're working it harder, so there may be less in it than you think. Less refined and less practical too and remember an Aygo cost about half the price of a Civic new, so it will be built down to a cost. You may also find that with the Aygo having a small engine and being cheaper on tax and fuel that the insurance may be more expensive than the Civic because it's popular with younger drivers and therefore involved in more accidents.
If you have to buy a cheaper car then a mk2 Toyota Yaris would be a better buy. Better quality and if petrol, virtually indestructible (my BIL has one with 200k+, only let him down once and he spends as little as possible on maintenance). Not for me though, the Civic is nicer to be in and drive.
I've done this in the past (buying a cheaper car) but mainly because it has been something more interesting that I really fancy. Sold my first car (mk3 Astra) and bought a cheap 205 GTi because I'd always wanted one. Definitely more niggles with the 205 and definitely cost me more to run as it was 5 year older and had double the mileage but for me the infinitely more special driving experience was worth every penny.
My Civic was only 2 years old when I got it and I had to take out some finance to buy it and I did look at some cheaper options (Fiesta/Hyundai i20) 12 months in but ultimately I wouldn't have been saving a whole heap for a less well-equipped, less practical, less powerful car that I didn't actually prefer. Traded it in against an older MINI Cooper eventually which did save me on payments and gave me 3 happy years of motoring but had to get rid last year due to an undiagnosable engine fault that I'd thrown a lot of money at without success and ended up taking a bit of a hit on. No regrets but purely from a financial perspective, had I kept the Civic it would probably still be running faultlessly and cost me minimal maintenance, which would have more than offset the higher payments. If you look at North America, where they tend to buy cheaper cars more on reliability than image, you'll find thousands of Civics/Corollas on 100k+ miles and they still command high prices on the used market because they've forged a strong reputation for being very cheap to run and very dependable. Unlike here, you'll find that like-for-like something like a VW Golf is going to be cheaper because it is going to give you problems. Don't get me wrong, a 2007 Golf can be a very nice car but you're much more likely to have expensive issues with it than a 2007 Civic. The only time a "downgrade" really makes good financial sense is when the car you're coming out of is really expensive to run in comparison (Audi RS, AMG, M car etc) or the price differential is much bigger i.e. you're coming out of a 10k car into a 1k car or dropping a large monthly payment for something cheap that you own outright.
It's possible that a cheaper Civic/car will save you some money but the difference over 5 years will be minimal at best and for the compromise of driving around in a less nice car is it really worth it? Good luck!
If you have to buy a cheaper car then a mk2 Toyota Yaris would be a better buy. Better quality and if petrol, virtually indestructible (my BIL has one with 200k+, only let him down once and he spends as little as possible on maintenance). Not for me though, the Civic is nicer to be in and drive.
I've done this in the past (buying a cheaper car) but mainly because it has been something more interesting that I really fancy. Sold my first car (mk3 Astra) and bought a cheap 205 GTi because I'd always wanted one. Definitely more niggles with the 205 and definitely cost me more to run as it was 5 year older and had double the mileage but for me the infinitely more special driving experience was worth every penny.
My Civic was only 2 years old when I got it and I had to take out some finance to buy it and I did look at some cheaper options (Fiesta/Hyundai i20) 12 months in but ultimately I wouldn't have been saving a whole heap for a less well-equipped, less practical, less powerful car that I didn't actually prefer. Traded it in against an older MINI Cooper eventually which did save me on payments and gave me 3 happy years of motoring but had to get rid last year due to an undiagnosable engine fault that I'd thrown a lot of money at without success and ended up taking a bit of a hit on. No regrets but purely from a financial perspective, had I kept the Civic it would probably still be running faultlessly and cost me minimal maintenance, which would have more than offset the higher payments. If you look at North America, where they tend to buy cheaper cars more on reliability than image, you'll find thousands of Civics/Corollas on 100k+ miles and they still command high prices on the used market because they've forged a strong reputation for being very cheap to run and very dependable. Unlike here, you'll find that like-for-like something like a VW Golf is going to be cheaper because it is going to give you problems. Don't get me wrong, a 2007 Golf can be a very nice car but you're much more likely to have expensive issues with it than a 2007 Civic. The only time a "downgrade" really makes good financial sense is when the car you're coming out of is really expensive to run in comparison (Audi RS, AMG, M car etc) or the price differential is much bigger i.e. you're coming out of a 10k car into a 1k car or dropping a large monthly payment for something cheap that you own outright.
It's possible that a cheaper Civic/car will save you some money but the difference over 5 years will be minimal at best and for the compromise of driving around in a less nice car is it really worth it? Good luck!
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