Mk7 Fiesta ST v Clio 182 Trophy
Discussion
Current daily driver is a MK7 Fiesta ST and I'd be interested in knowing if anyone has any experience and direct comparison with the Clio 182 Trophy, or indeed the FF ones?
I'm well versed in their technical differences etc, but keep coming back to the Trophy, of course it being voted the best hot hatch doesn't help in that regard!
I did for a long time look for a DC2 Integra but finally gave in and accepted even good ones were rotten. The Trophy equally seems to have a die hard following including some well known and respected journalists (Metcalfe & Bovingdon most notably).
Cheers in advance for any input.
Mods, this isn't a car buying question, I'm merely garnering views hence why I've put in GG to get as wide a view as possible, thanks.
I'm well versed in their technical differences etc, but keep coming back to the Trophy, of course it being voted the best hot hatch doesn't help in that regard!
I did for a long time look for a DC2 Integra but finally gave in and accepted even good ones were rotten. The Trophy equally seems to have a die hard following including some well known and respected journalists (Metcalfe & Bovingdon most notably).
Cheers in advance for any input.
Mods, this isn't a car buying question, I'm merely garnering views hence why I've put in GG to get as wide a view as possible, thanks.
Personally, if you can afford it, I'd be looking at testing both a DC2 and Trophy and see which you prefer.
Never driven the DC2, but a couple of friends of mine have and rave about them. Personally the engineering detail that went into them has a very significant appeal to me, a real purist's hot hatch and one, imho, which will be very well regarded in future. As for the rot, it's well known and not all that expensive to sort.
I have driven a Trophy, and owned a 172FF, and they are tremendous cars with a few gentle tweaks (engine mounts, possibly exhaust and induction kit depending on preference). My favourite part about the 1x2 is that it has that naughty feeling of having an engine that shouldn't belong - squashing the 2.0 into it was a significant effort, and worth the time.
Never driven the DC2, but a couple of friends of mine have and rave about them. Personally the engineering detail that went into them has a very significant appeal to me, a real purist's hot hatch and one, imho, which will be very well regarded in future. As for the rot, it's well known and not all that expensive to sort.
I have driven a Trophy, and owned a 172FF, and they are tremendous cars with a few gentle tweaks (engine mounts, possibly exhaust and induction kit depending on preference). My favourite part about the 1x2 is that it has that naughty feeling of having an engine that shouldn't belong - squashing the 2.0 into it was a significant effort, and worth the time.
I've driven both and would have to say that out of the box, the 182 Trophy is more exciting to drive. The Fiesta ST would by far be the better daily, depending on your daily driving conditions. Clios are often slated for their high seating position and bus-size steering wheels but there are aftermarket mounts and other wheels available that rectify this. The clutch is pretty heavy in Clios of this generation, which isn't ideal in start/stop traffic.
I've had four 1*2s now and always regret selling them – you'd think I'd have learned my lesson by now! I found the Fiesta ST a bit soft for my liking, but plenty of tuning potential and aftermarket parts that I'm sure would sharpen it up. Both cars have the right amount of power to use all of it on the road without driving at stupid speeds.
Obviously different generations of hot hatch so an older Clio will feel like a step back in comfort and tech but will easily make up for it in driving reward. Ironically mine have been the most reliable cars I've ever owned too, far better than anything German I've owned.
We've recently updated our Clio 172/182 buying guide, which may be helpful: https://www.pistonheads.com/features/ph-buying-gui...
I've had four 1*2s now and always regret selling them – you'd think I'd have learned my lesson by now! I found the Fiesta ST a bit soft for my liking, but plenty of tuning potential and aftermarket parts that I'm sure would sharpen it up. Both cars have the right amount of power to use all of it on the road without driving at stupid speeds.
Obviously different generations of hot hatch so an older Clio will feel like a step back in comfort and tech but will easily make up for it in driving reward. Ironically mine have been the most reliable cars I've ever owned too, far better than anything German I've owned.
We've recently updated our Clio 172/182 buying guide, which may be helpful: https://www.pistonheads.com/features/ph-buying-gui...
Krikkit said:
Personally, if you can afford it, I'd be looking at testing both a DC2 and Trophy and see which you prefer.
Never driven the DC2, but a couple of friends of mine have and rave about them. Personally the engineering detail that went into them has a very significant appeal to me, a real purist's hot hatch and one, imho, which will be very well regarded in future. As for the rot, it's well known and not all that expensive to sort.
I have driven a Trophy, and owned a 172FF, and they are tremendous cars with a few gentle tweaks (engine mounts, possibly exhaust and induction kit depending on preference). My favourite part about the 1x2 is that it has that naughty feeling of having an engine that shouldn't belong - squashing the 2.0 into it was a significant effort, and worth the time.
Totally agree re the engineering, the lack of sound deadening, thinner windscreen, additional welding and reinforced engine internals really does appeal to the car geek in me. Oddly though I tested two years ago and the first one at least didn't massively impress me!Never driven the DC2, but a couple of friends of mine have and rave about them. Personally the engineering detail that went into them has a very significant appeal to me, a real purist's hot hatch and one, imho, which will be very well regarded in future. As for the rot, it's well known and not all that expensive to sort.
I have driven a Trophy, and owned a 172FF, and they are tremendous cars with a few gentle tweaks (engine mounts, possibly exhaust and induction kit depending on preference). My favourite part about the 1x2 is that it has that naughty feeling of having an engine that shouldn't belong - squashing the 2.0 into it was a significant effort, and worth the time.
About four years ago I looked at a 38k mile UKDM one, it really was perfect, except even that had rust coming through on the arches, it was at that point I gave in.
BenLowden said:
I've driven both and would have to say that out of the box, the 182 Trophy is more exciting to drive. The Fiesta ST would by far be the better daily, depending on your daily driving conditions. Clios are often slated for their high seating position and bus-size steering wheels but there are aftermarket mounts and other wheels available that rectify this. The clutch is pretty heavy in Clios of this generation, which isn't ideal in start/stop traffic.
I've had four 1*2s now and always regret selling them – you'd think I'd have learned my lesson by now! I found the Fiesta ST a bit soft for my liking, but plenty of tuning potential and aftermarket parts that I'm sure would sharpen it up. Both cars have the right amount of power to use all of it on the road without driving at stupid speeds.
Obviously different generations of hot hatch so an older Clio will feel like a step back in comfort and tech but will easily make up for it in driving reward. Ironically mine have been the most reliable cars I've ever owned too, far better than anything German I've owned.
We've recently updated our Clio 172/182 buying guide, which may be helpful: https://www.pistonheads.com/features/ph-buying-gui...
Thanks for the reply Ben, I've followed your buying journey on here.I've had four 1*2s now and always regret selling them – you'd think I'd have learned my lesson by now! I found the Fiesta ST a bit soft for my liking, but plenty of tuning potential and aftermarket parts that I'm sure would sharpen it up. Both cars have the right amount of power to use all of it on the road without driving at stupid speeds.
Obviously different generations of hot hatch so an older Clio will feel like a step back in comfort and tech but will easily make up for it in driving reward. Ironically mine have been the most reliable cars I've ever owned too, far better than anything German I've owned.
We've recently updated our Clio 172/182 buying guide, which may be helpful: https://www.pistonheads.com/features/ph-buying-gui...
Ironic that you say the ST makes the better daily, as that's one reason I'm getting rid of it, the driving position is naff and stiff suspension doesn't really do it in a daily - that said the 182 wouldn't be to replace it.
Your comment about usable power is what exactly brings me to the Trophy, I've an E92 M3 as well and though I really do love it, the engine's simply a masterpiece it's just too much on the road, and for the brilliant B roads I'm surrounded by to heavy as well.
I see despite my comment the PH mods have moved it!
I've had 2 182 FF and I'm on my second ST3 Fiesta now so I like to think I'm reasonably well qualified to opine...
The Fiesta is the best part of a decade or more newer - and it shows. When I drove my first one for the first time, my initial reaction was 'its a modern 182' and I still stand by that. The seats are better - comfort wise and driving position, the clutch is lighter, the toys are nicer, the suspension is more sophisticated (I'm not going to say comfortable but the fiesta rides better at motorway speeds - both are v firm at town speed). You get more kit, which works better. Plus heated windscreen, a smaller size steering and a 6 speed gearbox. If you aren't going to use it as a daily then, sure buy the trophy, but as a daily the Fiesta wins doing handsprings in my opinion. I wouldn't go back to a 182 now, or even a 200 unless it was going to be a pure trackday car - unless it was for money reasons, which doesn't seem to be the case based on your OP.
Also, I'm not a driving god but the Fiesta is just as tail happy as a 182 if you are partial to a bit of lift off oversteer.
The Fiesta is the best part of a decade or more newer - and it shows. When I drove my first one for the first time, my initial reaction was 'its a modern 182' and I still stand by that. The seats are better - comfort wise and driving position, the clutch is lighter, the toys are nicer, the suspension is more sophisticated (I'm not going to say comfortable but the fiesta rides better at motorway speeds - both are v firm at town speed). You get more kit, which works better. Plus heated windscreen, a smaller size steering and a 6 speed gearbox. If you aren't going to use it as a daily then, sure buy the trophy, but as a daily the Fiesta wins doing handsprings in my opinion. I wouldn't go back to a 182 now, or even a 200 unless it was going to be a pure trackday car - unless it was for money reasons, which doesn't seem to be the case based on your OP.
Also, I'm not a driving god but the Fiesta is just as tail happy as a 182 if you are partial to a bit of lift off oversteer.
Edited by gashead1105 on Thursday 16th April 19:15
acme said:
Thanks for the reply Ben, I've followed your buying journey on here.
Ironic that you say the ST makes the better daily, as that's one reason I'm getting rid of it, the driving position is naff and stiff suspension [b] doesn't really do it in a daily - that said the 182 wouldn't be to replace it.
I read the suspension had been improved late 2014 onwards. I had a 2014 plate and the ride was stiff. Ironic that you say the ST makes the better daily, as that's one reason I'm getting rid of it, the driving position is naff and stiff suspension [b] doesn't really do it in a daily - that said the 182 wouldn't be to replace it.
What year is yours?
gashead1105 said:
I've had 2 182 FF and I'm on my second ST3 Fiesta now so I like to think I'm reasonably well qualified to opine...
The Fiesta is the best part of a decade or more newer - and it shows. When I drove my first one for the first time, my initial reaction was 'its a modern 182' and I still stand by that. The seats are better - comfort wise and driving position, the clutch is lighter, the toys are nicer, the suspension is more sophisticated (I'm not going to say comfortable but the fiesta rides better at motorway speeds - both are v firm at town speed). You get more kit, which works better. Plus heated windscreen, a smaller size steering and a 6 speed gearbox. If you aren't going to use it as a daily then, sure buy the trophy, but as a daily the Fiesta wins doing handsprings in my opinion. I wouldn't go back to a 182 now, or even a 200 unless it was going to be a pure trackday car - unless it was for money reasons, which doesn't seem to be the case based on your OP.
Also, I'm not a driving god but the Fiesta is just as tail happy as a 182 if you are partial to a bit of lift off oversteer.
Cheers just what I was looking for someone who has experience of both. The Fiesta is the best part of a decade or more newer - and it shows. When I drove my first one for the first time, my initial reaction was 'its a modern 182' and I still stand by that. The seats are better - comfort wise and driving position, the clutch is lighter, the toys are nicer, the suspension is more sophisticated (I'm not going to say comfortable but the fiesta rides better at motorway speeds - both are v firm at town speed). You get more kit, which works better. Plus heated windscreen, a smaller size steering and a 6 speed gearbox. If you aren't going to use it as a daily then, sure buy the trophy, but as a daily the Fiesta wins doing handsprings in my opinion. I wouldn't go back to a 182 now, or even a 200 unless it was going to be a pure trackday car - unless it was for money reasons, which doesn't seem to be the case based on your OP.
Also, I'm not a driving god but the Fiesta is just as tail happy as a 182 if you are partial to a bit of lift off oversteer.
Edited by gashead1105 on Thursday 16th April 19:15
I can see why you think the ST’s a modern interpretation, it can certainly do three wheels if pushed. The seating comment worries me, the ST’s bases are way too narrow and I’m skinny! I’m aware Clios driving positions aren’t great, I remember moving my sisters round the drive as a kid. The suspension is curious, on motorways it’s basically fine at low speeds is an utter pain & on certain roads I start to feel sea sick!
As for the interior I know it has a lot of buttons but it works better than the touch screen on my old Golf, and like yours mines a ST3 so well specced.
CharlieH89 said:
I read the suspension had been improved late 2014 onwards. I had a 2014 plate and the ride was stiff.
What year is yours?
Mines a 2017, I deliberately chose a late one with ST200 suspension as I think the rear in particular is wound off. Funny thing is it makes the M3 seem like a limo, not something you’d usually hear of a M car!What year is yours?
acme said:
Thanks for the reply Ben, I've followed your buying journey on here.
Ironic that you say the ST makes the better daily, as that's one reason I'm getting rid of it, the driving position is naff and stiff suspension doesn't really do it in a daily - that said the 182 wouldn't be to replace it.
Your comment about usable power is what exactly brings me to the Trophy, I've an E92 M3 as well and though I really do love it, the engine's simply a masterpiece it's just too much on the road, and for the brilliant B roads I'm surrounded by to heavy as well.
I see despite my comment the PH mods have moved it!
I did find the seating position high in the ST200 I drove. Are there no aftermarket lowering options for the seats? Might also be worth trying to get a drive/ride in another ST that has fast road coilovers fitted (something like Bilstein B14s) as you may find the ride to be better on a decent set of suspension.Ironic that you say the ST makes the better daily, as that's one reason I'm getting rid of it, the driving position is naff and stiff suspension doesn't really do it in a daily - that said the 182 wouldn't be to replace it.
Your comment about usable power is what exactly brings me to the Trophy, I've an E92 M3 as well and though I really do love it, the engine's simply a masterpiece it's just too much on the road, and for the brilliant B roads I'm surrounded by to heavy as well.
I see despite my comment the PH mods have moved it!
200-250hp/tonne is the sweet spot I think for having proper fun on the road. Enough power to put a grin on your face but not too much to lose your licence.
gashead1105 said:
I've had 2 182 FF and I'm on my second ST3 Fiesta now so I like to think I'm reasonably well qualified to opine...
The Fiesta is the best part of a decade or more newer - and it shows. When I drove my first one for the first time, my initial reaction was 'its a modern 182' and I still stand by that. The seats are better - comfort wise and driving position, the clutch is lighter, the toys are nicer, the suspension is more sophisticated (I'm not going to say comfortable but the fiesta rides better at motorway speeds - both are v firm at town speed). You get more kit, which works better. Plus heated windscreen, a smaller size steering and a 6 speed gearbox. If you aren't going to use it as a daily then, sure buy the trophy, but as a daily the Fiesta wins doing handsprings in my opinion. I wouldn't go back to a 182 now, or even a 200 unless it was going to be a pure trackday car - unless it was for money reasons, which doesn't seem to be the case based on your OP.
I agree with this (although I'll definitely be buying another 182 The Fiesta is the best part of a decade or more newer - and it shows. When I drove my first one for the first time, my initial reaction was 'its a modern 182' and I still stand by that. The seats are better - comfort wise and driving position, the clutch is lighter, the toys are nicer, the suspension is more sophisticated (I'm not going to say comfortable but the fiesta rides better at motorway speeds - both are v firm at town speed). You get more kit, which works better. Plus heated windscreen, a smaller size steering and a 6 speed gearbox. If you aren't going to use it as a daily then, sure buy the trophy, but as a daily the Fiesta wins doing handsprings in my opinion. I wouldn't go back to a 182 now, or even a 200 unless it was going to be a pure trackday car - unless it was for money reasons, which doesn't seem to be the case based on your OP.
). Other cars to look at depending on your budget are the N18 MINI JCWs (2013 onwards) and a 208 GTI by Peugeot Sport (make sure it's a 'by PS' one!). This article is worth a read too: https://www.pistonheads.com/news/features/ford-fie...acme said:
Current daily driver is a MK7 Fiesta ST and I'd be interested in knowing if anyone has any experience and direct comparison with the Clio 182 Trophy, or indeed the FF ones?
I'm well versed in their technical differences etc, but keep coming back to the Trophy, of course it being voted the best hot hatch doesn't help in that regard!
I did for a long time look for a DC2 Integra but finally gave in and accepted even good ones were rotten. The Trophy equally seems to have a die hard following including some well known and respected journalists (Metcalfe & Bovingdon most notably).
Cheers in advance for any input.
Mods, this isn't a car buying question, I'm merely garnering views hence why I've put in GG to get as wide a view as possible, thanks.
Just out of curiosity is your st modified?I'm well versed in their technical differences etc, but keep coming back to the Trophy, of course it being voted the best hot hatch doesn't help in that regard!
I did for a long time look for a DC2 Integra but finally gave in and accepted even good ones were rotten. The Trophy equally seems to have a die hard following including some well known and respected journalists (Metcalfe & Bovingdon most notably).
Cheers in advance for any input.
Mods, this isn't a car buying question, I'm merely garnering views hence why I've put in GG to get as wide a view as possible, thanks.
Mine is a bit of an animal with a few choice mods and feels pretty raw for a modern hatch, and once you master it, the tail will lift off oversteer so easy and controllably its so fun.
I have eibach springs which help with the ride and lower it slightly.
A cp2e remap and induction kit giving it approx 235bhp, an exhaust, rear engine mount, upgraded intercooler.
It really is an animal now and really holds its own against faster cars due to the power to weight ratio, its an absolute hooligan when you want it to be.
acme said:
Mine's totally standard, probably one of the few in the country!
I left my first one standard, my second one still had a year's warranty left on it when I bought it, so I put the MP215 on it, which has really improved third gear onwards. It could take a little more power, I think 230-240 would be it though. However I also have an Evora in the garage so I don't think I'm going to spend the money modifying mine any further. I might trade it for a newish Civic Type R when this crisis is over though... Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff