Where is the bottom?
Discussion
So, I’m bored and fed up with lockdown. And wondered, what is the cheapest fun you can have (sorry more estate based discussions)
Let me explain the situation and see who can find the best balance.
I’m sure we could all find a fantastic, fast estate car with £100,000 to spend, and for sure the same at £50k
What about £500? Too little? Probably! But where does the lowest sit?
I.e if you spent £2,000 on a car how much more would you get if that was £3,000? Or would you need to spend £5,000 before things get interesting?
Now, of course a more economical car will be different to a fast car - I.e the s6 I was recommended in a previous thread (which is still top of my list) is a compromise I.e I could get a newer car for less money but I’d trade off speed and spec. So in that instance £10k is the amount I need to spend.
So,
What would you recommend as a budget for an estate car? £10k get and v10 s6? Spend less, trade some speed for a newer car? Or spend more - buy something different?
Again, completely hypothetical discussion just bored
Let me explain the situation and see who can find the best balance.
I’m sure we could all find a fantastic, fast estate car with £100,000 to spend, and for sure the same at £50k
What about £500? Too little? Probably! But where does the lowest sit?
I.e if you spent £2,000 on a car how much more would you get if that was £3,000? Or would you need to spend £5,000 before things get interesting?
Now, of course a more economical car will be different to a fast car - I.e the s6 I was recommended in a previous thread (which is still top of my list) is a compromise I.e I could get a newer car for less money but I’d trade off speed and spec. So in that instance £10k is the amount I need to spend.
So,
What would you recommend as a budget for an estate car? £10k get and v10 s6? Spend less, trade some speed for a newer car? Or spend more - buy something different?
Again, completely hypothetical discussion just bored
The more expensive cars may be 'nicer' to drive and more powerful but I have thought for a long time that the sweet spot for cars on the road is somewhere between 200 and 300 bhp to be useable daily and occasionally exciting.
The other side is that when using a slower cheaper car, you're less worried about becoming too familiar with any nearby vegetation, and it's fun to be able to use all the power on a regular basis.
A nice cheap good handling hatchback is where it's at for me. I personally have a big sort spot for the MK5 Golf GTI and Renault Sport Clio 182.
Would be very interested to see what others think though
The other side is that when using a slower cheaper car, you're less worried about becoming too familiar with any nearby vegetation, and it's fun to be able to use all the power on a regular basis.
A nice cheap good handling hatchback is where it's at for me. I personally have a big sort spot for the MK5 Golf GTI and Renault Sport Clio 182.
Would be very interested to see what others think though
A estate with some performance, it's an interesting question I'd say around 10k is the number where you start to get choice:
300C SRT
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
C55
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
S6
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
RS6
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
At 5k a W8 Passat makes an interesting alternative to the normal offerings:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
Lower down the scale the ST220 is always a good call or the later 2.5T Mondeo.
Another one that comes up very rarely is the Vectra VXR but when they do they're at sensible money.
The E500's when they come up are another good pick but finding one for sale (their owners keep them) is the hard part.
300C SRT
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
C55
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
S6
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
RS6
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
At 5k a W8 Passat makes an interesting alternative to the normal offerings:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
Lower down the scale the ST220 is always a good call or the later 2.5T Mondeo.
Another one that comes up very rarely is the Vectra VXR but when they do they're at sensible money.
The E500's when they come up are another good pick but finding one for sale (their owners keep them) is the hard part.
FK said:
I have thought for a long time that the sweet spot for cars on the road is somewhere between 200 and 300 bhp to be useable daily and occasionally exciting.
Absolute agree. You can't really use much more than that out on the road. Having 600, 700, 800bhp etc is more for bragging rights. Unless it's on a track. We've got 500bhp in ours and it gets used regularly when joining A roads from a standstill, overtaking slow moving farm traffic etc. and on quiet B-Road blasts but agree that if your driving mostly consists of city and motorway it would be pretty pointless.
Part of it is also the ability to get the power to the road. With AWD we can use it in most conditions without having to think about it but I've driven plenty of less powerful RWD cars where in anything but perfect conditions there was no way you could even consider it.
Part of it is also the ability to get the power to the road. With AWD we can use it in most conditions without having to think about it but I've driven plenty of less powerful RWD cars where in anything but perfect conditions there was no way you could even consider it.
Yeah that’s my battle really, I live in the east coast and winters are awful, no gritters etc so sad is really attractive, I really should’ve asked what’s the sweet spot rather than where’s the bottom.
The s6 is still quite attractive as it’s awd, big, fairy modern and £10k but I do wonder about something cheaper. I’m not too fussed about the v10 but anything over 300bhp would be good
The s6 is still quite attractive as it’s awd, big, fairy modern and £10k but I do wonder about something cheaper. I’m not too fussed about the v10 but anything over 300bhp would be good
We had one of these many moons ago and it was a great all rounder and a lot nicer place to spend time than a similarly priced 3 series.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
Get it down to £5k and it's a great car for the money with a lovely engine, plenty of performance and hugely practical.
Not an event like the S6 with its V10 but then again a much lower risk of potentially bankrupting bork..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRGxU88GtVo
.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
Get it down to £5k and it's a great car for the money with a lovely engine, plenty of performance and hugely practical.
Not an event like the S6 with its V10 but then again a much lower risk of potentially bankrupting bork..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRGxU88GtVo
.
SWoll said:
We've got 500bhp in ours and it gets used regularly when joining A roads from a standstill, overtaking slow moving farm traffic etc. and on quiet B-Road blasts but agree that if your driving mostly consists of city and motorway it would be pretty pointless.
Part of it is also the ability to get the power to the road. With AWD we can use it in most conditions without having to think about it but I've driven plenty of less powerful RWD cars where in anything but perfect conditions there was no way you could even consider it.
I don't struggle to put my power down in my N/A 500+ car in the wet as much as it is in my TT one.Part of it is also the ability to get the power to the road. With AWD we can use it in most conditions without having to think about it but I've driven plenty of less powerful RWD cars where in anything but perfect conditions there was no way you could even consider it.
My mechanic friend had an RS6 estate 4.2 V8 TT (was that the original one?). A car I would strongly consider buying (notwithstanding my earlier post....). Audi also seem to have kept their V8s sounding broadly the same despite the increasing trend towards turbocharging. The AMG Mercs I think aren't as good, and I would rather listen to some diesels than the current M-Series BMW V8s.
My point was that he re-mapped/modified his car to around 500bhp (not difficult with that engine). Catapulted off the line everywhere, zero traction problems......and then had to immediately brake for speed cameras / police / other cars etc. Bearing in mind an engine only produces max power when you are at the appropriate revs and with the throttle down far enough to get the max air/fuel mixture to cause the biggest explosion. Doesn't happen as often as some people think. I had this same issue with my 1000cc bikes. Never spun up the rear, but could never enjoy the acceleration for long and this caused me slight frustration. Obviously, we are all different, but I wouldn't want to wish frustration upon anyone here.
Rising above all this, I'm enough of a car person to not discourage anyone from grabbing a fast set of wheels so if one wants a cracking estate with a monster engine, then go right ahead sir. And please don't let some oaf like me on the other side of a laptop derail this!
My point was that he re-mapped/modified his car to around 500bhp (not difficult with that engine). Catapulted off the line everywhere, zero traction problems......and then had to immediately brake for speed cameras / police / other cars etc. Bearing in mind an engine only produces max power when you are at the appropriate revs and with the throttle down far enough to get the max air/fuel mixture to cause the biggest explosion. Doesn't happen as often as some people think. I had this same issue with my 1000cc bikes. Never spun up the rear, but could never enjoy the acceleration for long and this caused me slight frustration. Obviously, we are all different, but I wouldn't want to wish frustration upon anyone here.
Rising above all this, I'm enough of a car person to not discourage anyone from grabbing a fast set of wheels so if one wants a cracking estate with a monster engine, then go right ahead sir. And please don't let some oaf like me on the other side of a laptop derail this!
Ah there is no imminent derailment 
just a case of balance really.
I love the s6 it’s a great pick.
But!
I also have a 14 month old with sticky fingers.
A Labrador with sticky everything!
Hobbies that require space
DIY enjoyment that also requires dirty crap chucked in the boot
Now, that’s just me of course
So the s6 does tick the boxes but might be a little too fast, and a little too nice. Perhaps the st220 is still the better option. I would however really still like awd which the Audi provides. So I’m yet to find my perfect sweet spot. Might just be a 3.0 Audi Quattro in some guise a4/a6 - probably the a6 as the interior looks less dated. But equally the Saab 9-3 awd is an option as it’ll do all my jobs and not cost the earth if I totally wreck it with my stuff.
Essentially I don’t want a show piece. I want a fun work hourse
just a case of balance really. I love the s6 it’s a great pick.
But!
I also have a 14 month old with sticky fingers.
A Labrador with sticky everything!
Hobbies that require space
DIY enjoyment that also requires dirty crap chucked in the boot
Now, that’s just me of course
So the s6 does tick the boxes but might be a little too fast, and a little too nice. Perhaps the st220 is still the better option. I would however really still like awd which the Audi provides. So I’m yet to find my perfect sweet spot. Might just be a 3.0 Audi Quattro in some guise a4/a6 - probably the a6 as the interior looks less dated. But equally the Saab 9-3 awd is an option as it’ll do all my jobs and not cost the earth if I totally wreck it with my stuff.
Essentially I don’t want a show piece. I want a fun work hourse
The ST220 is a superb motor car, massive work-horsey boot and very good to drive. Surprising turn of speed too. One of Ford's very best in my opinion and that is meant entirely as a compliment. You can pick up a good one for £2.5k and you will struggle to spend more than £5k on one, mainly because they haven't produced them for 13 years now. Wouldn't be surprised if a well maintained one starts rising in value, as Fast Fords tend to. When i was growing up, an Escort Cosworth was £19k. I saw one advertised for £95k a few days ago....
£10k will squeeze you into the 3.0 Supercharged Audi S4 estate, which is lovely. Plus a mix of V8 RS6 and V-10 S6 previously mentioned, as well as older V8 S4s and A6 2.7Ts and Standard 4.2 V8s. The 2.7Ts have around 230bhp. All the other Audi's I've mentioned have comfortably over 300. Given that you mentioned AWD being quite important, I would budget around 6 - 10k and investigate any one of these.
Audi generally do very good interiors, which might not sound important but if and when we come out of this lockdown and are sitting in traffic jams, suddenly it might go up on the priority list!
£10k will squeeze you into the 3.0 Supercharged Audi S4 estate, which is lovely. Plus a mix of V8 RS6 and V-10 S6 previously mentioned, as well as older V8 S4s and A6 2.7Ts and Standard 4.2 V8s. The 2.7Ts have around 230bhp. All the other Audi's I've mentioned have comfortably over 300. Given that you mentioned AWD being quite important, I would budget around 6 - 10k and investigate any one of these.
Audi generally do very good interiors, which might not sound important but if and when we come out of this lockdown and are sitting in traffic jams, suddenly it might go up on the priority list!
I’ve always had a soft (hard) spot for these, probably ruinous on the upkeep - but cool as
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2...
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2...
There's also the Insignia VXR very underrated & properly swift especially if you remap one.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
I thought the answer to the best cheapest estate was usually a Saab 9-5 Aero;
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
this may have a short mot ticket and I'd want to check for oil leaks (mot history is a bit, meh) but this is £999 or less.
I've owned one of these, bought for this kind of money, at 247,000 miles with one previous owner and used it twice for family holidays to Scotland; it now belongs to the garage I use and continues to be strong, reliable & fast (when I borrow it).
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
this may have a short mot ticket and I'd want to check for oil leaks (mot history is a bit, meh) but this is £999 or less.
I've owned one of these, bought for this kind of money, at 247,000 miles with one previous owner and used it twice for family holidays to Scotland; it now belongs to the garage I use and continues to be strong, reliable & fast (when I borrow it).
ah sorry, need to edit the title which I can't what I really meant is what's the sweet spot.
the saab is fine, if £1000 is what you want to spend - but would another £1000 get something substantially better.
what i'm after really is the "look to get a decent cover the bases car you need to spend £5000" or something like that.
I mean I think the ST200 estate is probably one of the best lower end cars you can get, and the S6 is probably the best crazy car you can get at around £10k
Now, if I spend £10k on a car it needs to be insane in every aspect, however, spending the lower end means I can win brownie points and put a decent chunk into the kitchen fund, so i'm just looking for the best balance:
full £10k on the S6 means longer for the kitchen
ST220 leaves loads toward the kitchen but is it the best choice? I'm not certain.
the saab is fine, if £1000 is what you want to spend - but would another £1000 get something substantially better.
what i'm after really is the "look to get a decent cover the bases car you need to spend £5000" or something like that.
I mean I think the ST200 estate is probably one of the best lower end cars you can get, and the S6 is probably the best crazy car you can get at around £10k
Now, if I spend £10k on a car it needs to be insane in every aspect, however, spending the lower end means I can win brownie points and put a decent chunk into the kitchen fund, so i'm just looking for the best balance:
full £10k on the S6 means longer for the kitchen
ST220 leaves loads toward the kitchen but is it the best choice? I'm not certain.
So, could I suggest a Saab Aero at around £1,000; then perhaps
The ST-220 Mondeo does seem to meet the price/reward balance quite well although I've never wanted to own one but there is a rather lovely 2002 silver with red leather example on autotrader for £2495 that hasn't done a six figure milage and has a clean MOT history.
Double the budget again, to £4,995 and you'd get to a 1995 Audi S6 2.2 quattro with starship mileage
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=18...
I've owned one of these too. Admired it, yes; loved it, no.
To get something I'd love you need to double the budget again - BMW Alpina (E39) B10 Touring
Alpina inline six, 260-280 bhp, rear wheel drive, manual gearbox, plenty of room for children and labradoodle. I've had one of these too.
I went through a series of these kind of fast estates; I'd emphasis that for me, the sweet spot of money/reward was hit with the Alpina.
The ST-220 Mondeo does seem to meet the price/reward balance quite well although I've never wanted to own one but there is a rather lovely 2002 silver with red leather example on autotrader for £2495 that hasn't done a six figure milage and has a clean MOT history.
Double the budget again, to £4,995 and you'd get to a 1995 Audi S6 2.2 quattro with starship mileage
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=18...
I've owned one of these too. Admired it, yes; loved it, no.
To get something I'd love you need to double the budget again - BMW Alpina (E39) B10 Touring
Alpina inline six, 260-280 bhp, rear wheel drive, manual gearbox, plenty of room for children and labradoodle. I've had one of these too.
I went through a series of these kind of fast estates; I'd emphasis that for me, the sweet spot of money/reward was hit with the Alpina.
Edited by TurboBlue on Monday 27th April 20:43
yeah, think that audi is too old really.
I think in all reality, £5,000 is where I want to be.
So for me, it's looking like a split between:
9-3 2.8T
5 series 530i M sport
ST220
think those are the top contenders for my sweet spot
Option 1
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
Option 2 (little over budget on example)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2006-BMW-530I-M-SPORT-T...
Option 3
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2007-07-FORD-MONDEO-EST...
I think in all reality, £5,000 is where I want to be.
So for me, it's looking like a split between:
9-3 2.8T
5 series 530i M sport
ST220
think those are the top contenders for my sweet spot
Option 1
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...
Option 2 (little over budget on example)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2006-BMW-530I-M-SPORT-T...
Option 3
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2007-07-FORD-MONDEO-EST...
Edited by Hudson1984 on Tuesday 28th April 19:01
Of those three, I would err towards the Ford. My uncle has a 523i of that shape (is it the E60?). Anyway, I've driven a 535d and really found the interior properly dull and grey and unimaginative. As always, only my view....
Never really taken to Saab although my friend's dad had an old 9000 and it had the most comfy armchair like seats ever. I genuinely don't think my bed is as comfortable. So if that's what you're after....
The Ford is great for all the reasons I mentioned earlier. And it's quite desirable. And it takes it's mileage well. A MK3 Mondeo estate was sold a few years ago at around 500k miles and still in reasonable nick (although I don't know what had been replaced if anything). There was a slightly later version on sale on AT on just under 300k miles and it looked pristine!
Never really taken to Saab although my friend's dad had an old 9000 and it had the most comfy armchair like seats ever. I genuinely don't think my bed is as comfortable. So if that's what you're after....
The Ford is great for all the reasons I mentioned earlier. And it's quite desirable. And it takes it's mileage well. A MK3 Mondeo estate was sold a few years ago at around 500k miles and still in reasonable nick (although I don't know what had been replaced if anything). There was a slightly later version on sale on AT on just under 300k miles and it looked pristine!
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