Worth Waiting for a Manual? (BMW M240i)
Discussion
Hi guys,
Looking for a little bit of buying advise from people who've been in a similar situation. Currently looking at buying a BMW M240i with a somewhat specific spec but the main requirement being a manual transmission. Having a hard time finding the right car specced the way I want while also having an MT. I know most modern automatic transmissions are pretty good now (as far as I'm aware the ZF box is pretty well regarded).
My question is, should I opt for a ZF auto over a manual to make the buying experience easier, considering the spec I'm looking for is a bit demanding anyway? Just concerned that a couple of months down the line I'll be disappointed I didn't go for a manual.
(For those wondering: the car needs to be new enough to have the facelift rear lights while being old enough not to have the GPF - this narrows the number of manuals in black or grey and preferably with the Harman Kardon audio system down quite significantly).
Looking for a little bit of buying advise from people who've been in a similar situation. Currently looking at buying a BMW M240i with a somewhat specific spec but the main requirement being a manual transmission. Having a hard time finding the right car specced the way I want while also having an MT. I know most modern automatic transmissions are pretty good now (as far as I'm aware the ZF box is pretty well regarded).
My question is, should I opt for a ZF auto over a manual to make the buying experience easier, considering the spec I'm looking for is a bit demanding anyway? Just concerned that a couple of months down the line I'll be disappointed I didn't go for a manual.
(For those wondering: the car needs to be new enough to have the facelift rear lights while being old enough not to have the GPF - this narrows the number of manuals in black or grey and preferably with the Harman Kardon audio system down quite significantly).
I’m selling mine soon, though this isn’t a sales pitch as it misses several of your requirements! I wouldn’t go as far as to say I have been disappointed by it - because overall it’s a very good car - but if I had my time again I would definitely spec a manual. Whilst the ZF is a good ‘box I just don’t think it really suits the car.
Edited by DeWar on Saturday 27th June 22:13
My wifes logic on her relatively recent car purchase was that right now you _can_ still find manuals but for anything remotely fun they're dying out and next time round she might not have a _choice_.
So yes, go for one because it might just be your last manual.
Why no GPF though? They don't work like the diesel DPF and as far as I'm aware don't have any major issues (I may be wrong though so feel free to educate me!)
So yes, go for one because it might just be your last manual.
Why no GPF though? They don't work like the diesel DPF and as far as I'm aware don't have any major issues (I may be wrong though so feel free to educate me!)
I suspect the PPF issue is because of the noise and lack of options re: aftermarket exhausts.
I'd suggest driving an auto and a manual of any spec and deciding if a manual is really what you want. I love manuals, but I think they start to make less sense as a car gets faster.
Only you can decide what is right for you though. If it really is a manual you want, then wait. If you don't, you'll buy one and the perfect car will then pop up!
I'd suggest driving an auto and a manual of any spec and deciding if a manual is really what you want. I love manuals, but I think they start to make less sense as a car gets faster.
Only you can decide what is right for you though. If it really is a manual you want, then wait. If you don't, you'll buy one and the perfect car will then pop up!
DM94 said:
Hi guys,
Looking for a little bit of buying advise from people who've been in a similar situation. Currently looking at buying a BMW M240i with a somewhat specific spec but the main requirement being a manual transmission. Having a hard time finding the right car specced the way I want while also having an MT. I know most modern automatic transmissions are pretty good now (as far as I'm aware the ZF box is pretty well regarded).
My question is, should I opt for a ZF auto over a manual to make the buying experience easier, considering the spec I'm looking for is a bit demanding anyway? Just concerned that a couple of months down the line I'll be disappointed I didn't go for a manual.
(For those wondering: the car needs to be new enough to have the facelift rear lights while being old enough not to have the GPF - this narrows the number of manuals in black or grey and preferably with the Harman Kardon audio system down quite significantly).
Go and drive one but the manual if you want - but forewarned, it's not very nice at all and certainly not worth holding out for. Clunky shift, nasty clutch action and offset pedals. Not to mention that on the motorway the much longer gearing of the ZF8 makes it far more economical and "relaxed" in that situation.Looking for a little bit of buying advise from people who've been in a similar situation. Currently looking at buying a BMW M240i with a somewhat specific spec but the main requirement being a manual transmission. Having a hard time finding the right car specced the way I want while also having an MT. I know most modern automatic transmissions are pretty good now (as far as I'm aware the ZF box is pretty well regarded).
My question is, should I opt for a ZF auto over a manual to make the buying experience easier, considering the spec I'm looking for is a bit demanding anyway? Just concerned that a couple of months down the line I'll be disappointed I didn't go for a manual.
(For those wondering: the car needs to be new enough to have the facelift rear lights while being old enough not to have the GPF - this narrows the number of manuals in black or grey and preferably with the Harman Kardon audio system down quite significantly).
The ZF auto is a much better box overall (of course personal opinion before anyone yells) for the engine and , while the gearbox mapping on the 40i isn't quite as good as on the 35i (for emissions) XHP offer software that make it amazing.
I've just sold my manual 67 plate m240i, met your criteria except it was blue and had advanced audio and not HK. Definitely hold out for a manual if that's what you want, it's very good and adds a layer of involvment. The days of manual boxes in quick cars are numbered so get one while you can.
Ignore the countless comments all over the internet that say the manual box is rubbish, they are nonsense. Most have never driven one or only experienced it on a short test drive. I did 33k miles in mine and would choose it again if I had another. I've had some of the best manual boxes in Honda's and a Porsche, and while the BMW one is not as good as those, it is still a good slick box and gets better as it's run in. Yes the pedals are offset slightly, but I never found that an issue. I would recommend the M performance gear knob, nicer feel than the standard.
Look up the early Chris Harris reviews on the m135i and m235i where he drives manuals, he rates it. This is just one example:-
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-chrisharris/bm...
The auto box in these is very good, no dispute, and I had a long test drive in one before I purchased. But I just preferred the greater control I had in the manual. Have a good drive in both, but please don't be put off by people saying the manual is rubbish, because it's actually a good box.
Ignore the countless comments all over the internet that say the manual box is rubbish, they are nonsense. Most have never driven one or only experienced it on a short test drive. I did 33k miles in mine and would choose it again if I had another. I've had some of the best manual boxes in Honda's and a Porsche, and while the BMW one is not as good as those, it is still a good slick box and gets better as it's run in. Yes the pedals are offset slightly, but I never found that an issue. I would recommend the M performance gear knob, nicer feel than the standard.
Look up the early Chris Harris reviews on the m135i and m235i where he drives manuals, he rates it. This is just one example:-
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-chrisharris/bm...
The auto box in these is very good, no dispute, and I had a long test drive in one before I purchased. But I just preferred the greater control I had in the manual. Have a good drive in both, but please don't be put off by people saying the manual is rubbish, because it's actually a good box.
Not quite the same but I always regretted not waiting for a manual to come along when I was buying my old E90 330i. I went for the ZF6 auto instead and I regretted it everytime I got in it.
Don't get me wrong the ZF8 auto is a great gearbox and it suits a nice torquey engine that is in the M240i, but if you are anything like me you will regret not holding out for a manual I reckon.
Don't get me wrong the ZF8 auto is a great gearbox and it suits a nice torquey engine that is in the M240i, but if you are anything like me you will regret not holding out for a manual I reckon.
I love how irate people get when they are faced with an opposing suggestion :
- claiming that someones opinion is rubbish because they disagree (so typical PH)
- making assumptions based on another persons opinion without anything to back that up
- claiming that <motoring journalist> says it's good so it must be good
A mid 90s MX5 has a nicer gearbox than the Mx35i/Mx40i.
OP just test drive one and make your own opinions as on here everyone will say "bUy ThE mAnUaL fOr InVolVmEnt" because it seems to be the new "cool thing" to say . Yet in my opinion , manuals should be reserved for "proper sports cars" , not effectively a shopping car with a nice engine where most of the time you're spending it in town or commuting.
That's just my view and I'm not going to stoop to calling anyone elses opinion rubbish just because it conflicts with mine
Given only around 15 to 20% of cars were manual despite the auto being a £2000 option - combined with the general consensus of the gearbox / clutch action being generally not the best should really go some way. Of course the majority are not always right...but still, it says a lot.
Have a lovely Sunday.
- claiming that someones opinion is rubbish because they disagree (so typical PH)
- making assumptions based on another persons opinion without anything to back that up
- claiming that <motoring journalist> says it's good so it must be good
A mid 90s MX5 has a nicer gearbox than the Mx35i/Mx40i.
OP just test drive one and make your own opinions as on here everyone will say "bUy ThE mAnUaL fOr InVolVmEnt" because it seems to be the new "cool thing" to say . Yet in my opinion , manuals should be reserved for "proper sports cars" , not effectively a shopping car with a nice engine where most of the time you're spending it in town or commuting.
That's just my view and I'm not going to stoop to calling anyone elses opinion rubbish just because it conflicts with mine
Given only around 15 to 20% of cars were manual despite the auto being a £2000 option - combined with the general consensus of the gearbox / clutch action being generally not the best should really go some way. Of course the majority are not always right...but still, it says a lot.
Have a lovely Sunday.
Edited by xjay1337 on Sunday 28th June 11:23
You certainly need to drive both. The conflicting opinions on here just go to show there's no correct answer, it's whatever you prefer.
Personally, having driven both, I wouldn't have a manual version. I love manual gearboxes but I just don't think it's a very nice box to use, and the ZF8 is superb.
Personally, having driven both, I wouldn't have a manual version. I love manual gearboxes but I just don't think it's a very nice box to use, and the ZF8 is superb.
xjay1337 said:
I love how irate people get when they are faced with an opposing suggestion :
- claiming that someones opinion is rubbish because they disagree (so typical PH)
- making assumptions based on another persons opinion without anything to back that up
- claiming that <motoring journalist> says it's good so it must be good
A mid 90s MX5 has a nicer gearbox than the Mx35i/Mx40i.
OP just test drive one and make your own opinions as on here everyone will say "bUy ThE mAnUaL fOr InVolVmEnt" because it seems to be the new "cool thing" to say . Yet in my opinion , manuals should be reserved for "proper sports cars" , not effectively a shopping car with a nice engine where most of the time you're spending it in town or commuting.
That's just my view and I'm not going to stoop to calling anyone elses opinion rubbish just because it conflicts with mine
Given only around 15 to 20% of cars were manual despite the auto being a £2000 option - combined with the general consensus of the gearbox / clutch action being generally not the best should really go some way. Of course the majority are not always right...but still, it says a lot.
Have a lovely Sunday.
Apologies if it came across as irate, it wasn't intended to be. As I stated, the auto is very good and I suggested he drives both to form his own opinion. The manual seems to attract a lot of negativity (including in PH) and my post was to provide some balance to that argument as someone who has spent a lot of time in one.- claiming that someones opinion is rubbish because they disagree (so typical PH)
- making assumptions based on another persons opinion without anything to back that up
- claiming that <motoring journalist> says it's good so it must be good
A mid 90s MX5 has a nicer gearbox than the Mx35i/Mx40i.
OP just test drive one and make your own opinions as on here everyone will say "bUy ThE mAnUaL fOr InVolVmEnt" because it seems to be the new "cool thing" to say . Yet in my opinion , manuals should be reserved for "proper sports cars" , not effectively a shopping car with a nice engine where most of the time you're spending it in town or commuting.
That's just my view and I'm not going to stoop to calling anyone elses opinion rubbish just because it conflicts with mine
Given only around 15 to 20% of cars were manual despite the auto being a £2000 option - combined with the general consensus of the gearbox / clutch action being generally not the best should really go some way. Of course the majority are not always right...but still, it says a lot.
Have a lovely Sunday.
Edited by xjay1337 on Sunday 28th June 11:23
The auto is one of the best autos available, whereas the manual is not one of the best manual boxes. That doesn't make the manual a bad choice, it's still a good box in my opinion if you want the manual option. As far as I know it's the same manual box as the M2 and that doesn't get a bad press.
A lot of people bought them new as daily drivers, and I think that is one reason that a lot when auto, it makes a lot of sense for that purpose. It also makes rapid progress easier work, both attractive reasons to choose the auto. But he shouldn't discount the manual just because some people don't like it or it sold poorly when new, it's not terrible like many think.
I think it depends on the sort of driving that the OP will be using the car for. How long is your commute? Is the commute through the middle of London or on the countryside back roads? Will you be tracking it?
For me, I don't under the nostalgia around the manual gearboxes. I've driven manuals for 80% of my car ownership but I'd take a modern auto over one in a heartbeat.
You pays your money, you take your choice.
For me, I don't under the nostalgia around the manual gearboxes. I've driven manuals for 80% of my car ownership but I'd take a modern auto over one in a heartbeat.
You pays your money, you take your choice.
I was desperate to get another manual but heard how good the zf is in the m140i (same engine)
Anyway im now a happy owner of my first automatic and its bloody fantastic, i was never great at downshifts and rev matching and all that in my last car, so much nicer in this car the car doing it but if you really want you can use the flappy paddles anyway, its so smooth to drive normally, and when making progress you lose no time due to gearchanges its so rapid.
And no i dont have a long commute but i still prefer it.
Anyway im now a happy owner of my first automatic and its bloody fantastic, i was never great at downshifts and rev matching and all that in my last car, so much nicer in this car the car doing it but if you really want you can use the flappy paddles anyway, its so smooth to drive normally, and when making progress you lose no time due to gearchanges its so rapid.
And no i dont have a long commute but i still prefer it.
I have an M140 and I’m very much in the auto camp.
The ZF8 is a bloody brilliant thing and really suits the B58 in my opinion, allowing you to make the most of the engine’s torque plus as a daily driver it works brilliantly. I’m not a fan of BMW manuals, based on the ones I’ve owned and those I’ve driven....my previous vRS had a better gearbox. Admittedly my car is a daily which gets used for commuting etc and for that stuff the ZF8 is ace...it’s a million miles away from the old ZF6.
The PPF does strangle the sound a bit, but they still sound pretty damn good especially compared to say a Golf R or an S3 and with a drop top you’ll be able to enjoy it more. A quick trip to someone like PCW can release a bit more sound on the later cars.
The ZF8 is a bloody brilliant thing and really suits the B58 in my opinion, allowing you to make the most of the engine’s torque plus as a daily driver it works brilliantly. I’m not a fan of BMW manuals, based on the ones I’ve owned and those I’ve driven....my previous vRS had a better gearbox. Admittedly my car is a daily which gets used for commuting etc and for that stuff the ZF8 is ace...it’s a million miles away from the old ZF6.
The PPF does strangle the sound a bit, but they still sound pretty damn good especially compared to say a Golf R or an S3 and with a drop top you’ll be able to enjoy it more. A quick trip to someone like PCW can release a bit more sound on the later cars.
I have a manual M140i and the gearbox is fine. However, I did test drive another manual M140i and was unimpressed so perhaps they are not all created equally.
The car will be quicker in auto form and easy to drive day to day but it depends if you value involvement. Plus the replacement costs of an auto box scares me.
The car will be quicker in auto form and easy to drive day to day but it depends if you value involvement. Plus the replacement costs of an auto box scares me.
bigenginesmallcar said:
Raygun said:
Come resale time will the manual be easier to sell and pehaps command a higher price than the auto?
Unlikely considering the auto is fantastic and manual sub par. I know someone who had a really nicely specced M135i a year ago, it had some basic mods (only lowering springs and spacers) as well as an LSD.
It was manual. Took him 4 months to sell it.
Thanks for all the responses, it's much appreciated.
The main reason I'm looking for a manual has been discussed already - just the involvement of powering through the gears and I hate to admit it but every time I see a quick car drive past and hear the fart of a ZF or DSG auto I just think to myself 'I wouldn't be caught dead in that' (totally elitest I know).
My cousin actually owns an M235i - whether it's a manual or auto it would be good to get a shot of it considering they're very similar cars anyway.
I'm only coming from a bog-standard Fiesta so even if the manual isn't the greatest, if it's any better/smoother than the one in my Fiesta I'll be happy!
The main reason I'm looking for a manual has been discussed already - just the involvement of powering through the gears and I hate to admit it but every time I see a quick car drive past and hear the fart of a ZF or DSG auto I just think to myself 'I wouldn't be caught dead in that' (totally elitest I know).
My cousin actually owns an M235i - whether it's a manual or auto it would be good to get a shot of it considering they're very similar cars anyway.
I'm only coming from a bog-standard Fiesta so even if the manual isn't the greatest, if it's any better/smoother than the one in my Fiesta I'll be happy!
DM94 said:
The main reason I'm looking for a manual has been discussed already - just the involvement of powering through the gears and I hate to admit it but every time I see a quick car drive past and hear the fart of a ZF or DSG auto I just think to myself 'I wouldn't be caught dead in that' (totally elitest I know).
I know that it is a personal thing but I feel very similar to you. I heard a M2 the other day and my heart sank when I heard the super quick gearchange noise because it was the DCT. It doesn't get mentioned very often...but I've always thought that a manual actually sounds better when you change gear. The Auto/DCT have that very predictable noise that I just don't find all that exciting to listen to. Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff