BMW 430d or Golf R

[GTEYE]

Help!

I currently drive a BMW 430d M Sport Plus Coupe. It's only six months old, and in many ways its a great car, fast, frugal and well put together. But, it just doesn't spark much in the way of fun. The steering isn't great and its definitely more at home on a motorway than a B road.

Ruthlessly efficient, but ultimately it leaves me a bit cold.

Anyway, I've seen some pre-registered Golf R's at keen prices and I'm tempted to look. I know the Golf sometimes takes some abuse too.

Any thoughts from anyone who has driven/owned both?

[5harp3y]

driven both and they are much of the same

both incredibly capable but dull because of it

[Koltu]

Can only comment on my old F10 530 vs my current stage 1 golf R. The R needs to be mapped as they feel a bit sluggish through the midrange otherwise, however compared to the diesel it does encourage you to rev the life out of it. I found mine fun for a year, now totally bored and want something with more character. Its immensely immensely capable but just a bit bland.

[Stuart70]

I had a 435i convertible and currently have a Golf R.

Both are great competent cars, neither spark an ounce of joy for an enthusiast.

However if you just want to travel rapidly, easily the Golf is an ideal vehicle.

Next one for me will be a 280bhp Giulia and something old and open top, maybe a Saab.

[anonymous-user]

I'd have an i30N, Focus RS or M140i over either of those by some margin.

[brightmotiv]

Stuart70 said:

I had a 435i convertible and currently have a Golf R.

Both are great competent cars, neither spark an ounce of joy for an enthusiast.

However if you just want to travel rapidly, easily the Golf is an ideal vehicle.

Next one for me will be a 280bhp Giulia and something old and open top, maybe a Saab.

Genuine question: what counts as an enthusiasts car? To the average punter either car would be seen as powerful, dynamic and exciting. What are they missing? Is it steering feel, being lightweight etc? I’ve never seen a car with more 5 star reviews than the golf r. I understand it’s an all rounder not a track weapon however some critics seem to base their views on its ubiquity/type of owners as much as the car itself.

[Koltu]

I just don’t find it particularly fun any more. Doesn’t sound great and though has a silly amount of grip with the haldex that stops it being particularly playful. Comparing it to my old fellas old mk2 mx-5 it’s technically a better car in all aspects, certainly a hell of a lot faster but doesn’t come halfway to being as fun or engaging

[brightmotiv]

Koltu said:

I just don’t find it particularly fun any more. Doesn’t sound great and though has a silly amount of grip with the haldex that stops it being particularly playful. Comparing it to my old fellas old mk2 mx-5 it’s technically a better car in all aspects, certainly a hell of a lot faster but doesn’t come halfway to being as fun or engaging

Understood. Think that playfulness etc is - like so many things related to driving - hard to a) know and b) describe without experience. It’s a “I know I like it, it feels right” thing. I know more about my preferences this year than last. It’s always a journey of self knowledge for me.

[Belle427]

I’ve never driven an R but it would seem if you need an everyday car that does things well, allows you to Put your foot down safely in all conditions now and again it’s probably for you.
If it’s pure excitement you want then maybe look elsewhere.

[brightmotiv]

Belle427 said:

I’ve never driven an R but it would seem if you need an everyday car that does things well, allows you to Put your foot down safely in all conditions now and again it’s probably for you.
If it’s pure excitement you want then maybe look elsewhere.

Not to hijack the thread, but if we all base advice on what we have read: it’s an echo chamber.

[Belle427]

brightmotiv said:

Belle427 said:

I’ve never driven an R but it would seem if you need an everyday car that does things well, allows you to Put your foot down safely in all conditions now and again it’s probably for you.
If it’s pure excitement you want then maybe look elsewhere.

Not to hijack the thread, but if we all base advice on what we have read: it’s an echo chamber.

I know but I find it comical people come and ask the same questions and get the same answers all the time.
The correct answer is to go and take a test drive and see if you like it!
Only you can decide.

[brightmotiv]

Belle427 said:

I know but I find it comical people come and ask the same questions and get the same answers all the time.
The correct answer is to go and take a test drive and see if you like it!
Only you can decide.

With respect:
1) I have.
2) My question is around the characteristics of an enthusiasts car.
3) My view: many are confusing internet comments/car reviews with reality.

[anonymous-user]

I bought a golf r dsg in 2006 new. Sold to wbac after 2 months and 800 miles. Absolutely dull and uninspiring

Just a typical boosty engine with no character at all.

[CX53]

I had a manual MK7 R and absolutely loved it. Very fast everywhere, ridiculous amounts of grip, comfortable, efficient, I loved everything about it.

I haven't had a string of fast RWD cars to compare it to though, so perhaps I'm easily pleased.

[CorporalPike]

Not exact comparisons but I own a 430I, and had a 430d during warranty work and the difference is night and day. I couldn't believe how sluggish and nose heavy the 430d felt in comparison, it felt like a completely different car.

I had a mark 7.5 GTI at the same time and it just felt alive, if I was getting a hatch that's where my money would go.

Never been a fighter in the petrol diesel debate but this was night and day, was so shocked how awful the same car was in diesel form. And if I hadn't driven, stats wise would think 430d was the prefect car....

[MarkJS]

Stuart70 said:

I had a 435i convertible and currently have a Golf R.

Both are great competent cars, neither spark an ounce of joy for an enthusiast.

However if you just want to travel rapidly, easily the Golf is an ideal vehicle.

Next one for me will be a 280bhp Giulia and something old and open top, maybe a Saab.

I think you’ll be very disappointed going from a Golf R/435i to (I’m assuming) a Guilia Veloce - although I’d understand if that was a compromise to tun 2 cars as you mention.

To answer the OP, a Golf R was on my shortlist when replacing my Giulia and the Golf was a very capable car but in the end it was a Golf & a hatchback (along with having a certain ‘reputation’) none of which was what I really wanted. In the end I went for an LCI 440i which felt more fun than the Golf to me and just as quick. As someone has already mentioned, the Diesel variants drive VERY differently when pressing on - but I think the same can be found when comparing most cars in terms of Petrol v Diesel.

[Stuart70]

brightmotiv said:

Stuart70 said:

I had a 435i convertible and currently have a Golf R.

Both are great competent cars, neither spark an ounce of joy for an enthusiast.

However if you just want to travel rapidly, easily the Golf is an ideal vehicle.

Next one for me will be a 280bhp Giulia and something old and open top, maybe a Saab.

Genuine question: what counts as an enthusiasts car? To the average punter either car would be seen as powerful, dynamic and exciting. What are they missing? Is it steering feel, being lightweight etc? I’ve never seen a car with more 5 star reviews than the golf r. I understand it’s an all rounder not a track weapon however some critics seem to base their views on its ubiquity/type of owners as much as the car itself.

For me it is the digital experience. The tech has overtaken the driving experience. It makes them safer, certainly; faster, definitely - more engaging and more desirable - definitely not.

The enthusiasts element, I will try to explain with examples from some of my past cars.

Caterham R300 Superlight - starting with the worst all round car, but the most fun. Acceleration, handling, enough power. Lots of fun, but not a practical proposition - although I used it as a station car for the best part of a year

VW Corrado VR6 Storm - gearchange, induction roar, engine note at high revs, handling. Enough practicality to be the second car in a busy family.

Jaguar XFR - V8 burble whilst tickling along, supercharger whine, sheer scale of acceleration up to about 140mph. Sideways with a roar. Felt like something from another age and yet could swallow miles with aplomb.

Porsche 997.2 C2S - lovely howl, predictably handling, sense of owning an icon. Minimal fripperies. Felt like I was choosing to drive something focussed on driving, not on being a luxury car - god knows what a GT3/RS feels like

Mazda MX5 - great handling, great gear change, Truly rubbish engine note - sounded like a washing machine even after a sports exhaust and an induction kit. To be fair cost 45p and did multiple track days, daily car and unbreakable. Lots to love for sod all money.

A bit unfair to have launched into this from the question posed by the OP, so sorry for the off thread ramblings.

The problem with the Golf is that it has artificial sound, interventionist handling management, electric power steering - a digital driving experience. On a wet sub zero motorway at 2am trying to get home after a 400 mile journey, I would prefer it to the Porsche or the Jaguar - otherwise, not so much.

[ZX10R NIN]

GTEYE said:

Help!

I currently drive a BMW 430d M Sport Plus Coupe. It's only six months old, and in many ways its a great car, fast, frugal and well put together. But, it just doesn't spark much in the way of fun. The steering isn't great and its definitely more at home on a motorway than a B road.

Ruthlessly efficient, but ultimately it leaves me a bit cold.

Anyway, I've seen some pre-registered Golf R's at keen prices and I'm tempted to look. I know the Golf sometimes takes some abuse too.

Any thoughts from anyone who has driven/owned both?

Having driven a few Golf R's I feel that you'd be saying the same about the R in 6 months if you want something with some feel & a good amount of go then test drive the i30N/308 GTI/Megane all have a nice feel to them.

Or why not add some Poly Bushes & change the springs & sharpen up your 430d.

Or go & buy one of these, they're superb (the ride is great you cant believe your riding on 20's) drive amazingly welll & will give an M3/4 nightmares all whilst sipping the black stuff my OH loves hers:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202...

Finding one will be the hardest thing.

[irocfan]

I know it SHOULD be all about the driving experience - however, for me, the look of the car has to come into it. It's at this point that the BMW walks it, it's by no means a stunner - but the Golf is just bland/ordinary looking

[brightmotiv]

Stuart70 said:

brightmotiv said:

Stuart70 said:

I had a 435i convertible and currently have a Golf R.

Both are great competent cars, neither spark an ounce of joy for an enthusiast.

However if you just want to travel rapidly, easily the Golf is an ideal vehicle.

Next one for me will be a 280bhp Giulia and something old and open top, maybe a Saab.

Genuine question: what counts as an enthusiasts car? To the average punter either car would be seen as powerful, dynamic and exciting. What are they missing? Is it steering feel, being lightweight etc? I’ve never seen a car with more 5 star reviews than the golf r. I understand it’s an all rounder not a track weapon however some critics seem to base their views on its ubiquity/type of owners as much as the car itself.

For me it is the digital experience. The tech has overtaken the driving experience. It makes them safer, certainly; faster, definitely - more engaging and more desirable - definitely not.

The enthusiasts element, I will try to explain with examples from some of my past cars.

Caterham R300 Superlight - starting with the worst all round car, but the most fun. Acceleration, handling, enough power. Lots of fun, but not a practical proposition - although I used it as a station car for the best part of a year

VW Corrado VR6 Storm - gearchange, induction roar, engine note at high revs, handling. Enough practicality to be the second car in a busy family.

Jaguar XFR - V8 burble whilst tickling along, supercharger whine, sheer scale of acceleration up to about 140mph. Sideways with a roar. Felt like something from another age and yet could swallow miles with aplomb.

Porsche 997.2 C2S - lovely howl, predictably handling, sense of owning an icon. Minimal fripperies. Felt like I was choosing to drive something focussed on driving, not on being a luxury car - god knows what a GT3/RS feels like

Mazda MX5 - great handling, great gear change, Truly rubbish engine note - sounded like a washing machine even after a sports exhaust and an induction kit. To be fair cost 45p and did multiple track days, daily car and unbreakable. Lots to love for sod all money.

A bit unfair to have launched into this from the question posed by the OP, so sorry for the off thread ramblings.

The problem with the Golf is that it has artificial sound, interventionist handling management, electric power steering - a digital driving experience. On a wet sub zero motorway at 2am trying to get home after a 400 mile journey, I would prefer it to the Porsche or the Jaguar - otherwise, not so much.

Really useful, appreciate your views.

Apologies for the thread hijack: hopefully useful in isolating the characteristics of relevance for the OP.

On topic: I have driven both and am biased against diesel which is all torque boredom revving out with a rattle at 4500 rpm. I also rate traction over rwd feel. My when you need to get to work and your car will not move more than 3 inches after a light dusting of snow it is annoying.