Classic to replace BMW 135i coupe? - Suggestions please
Discussion
Some background to help.. I am not a perpetual car swapper, on average I think I have kept each of my last 3 cars (which I bought 2nd hand) for over 7 years each! I garage and look after my cars. Over the last 20 years I have owned a Toyota MR2 (mark 2) then Subaru Impreza and have at present a BMW E82 135i (N54) each has been a step up in performance.
Having reached 40 and mid-life crisis pending I realise that for the last 3 years I have spent more and more time driving my 2011 Hyundai i30 locally not having a need to commute like I did 2 years back. The BMW 135i hence rests in the garage, to keep the miles down and it clean. It is taken out for a little drive, a wash them back home.. Having had a drive today I realised that the 135i is such a great car, I can fit the kids in the back yet it is compact, it is really comfortable on a long drive and it goes like stink. For these weekend and evening drives for pure pleasure I don't need such a great allrounder. I miss having fun at slow speeds too. I followed a tuned Focus ST, exhaust popping and pulled it in easily but realised he was probably having more fun with his peddle to the metal squeezing every last horse out of the engine. The 135i is just a quicker car than I am driver and lacks drama in the process of being quick as do many modern cars. I have run it at ~360bhp on a Cobb remap in the past although it is standard at present. Silly speeds appear in seconds as I am sure many of you find in your cars. So would something slower actually be more fun? I guess the Mazda MX5 might be the perfect example of this or a Toyota 86? I have driven a couple of 911s, a 996 and 997. The 997 felt special, sounded special and came alive up the rev range but wasn't as punchy as my 135i. I fear one could be more costly to run than I can afford and I just didn't connect with it at the price they are for a good one! I might feel better about a boxter? Nissan GTR, too fast, too digital feeling. Felt like my 135i in grown up form. On the classic front, I have driven a MGB, too slow, lack of brakes! Jaguar XJS, liked that a lot but feel like I am not at that sort of a classic car stage of life quite yet!
Keeping a cheap run around works for me e.g. the i30 so the BMW can probably be swapped for something more compromised, more of a toy. I am attracted by the thought of a true pre-1980 classic I can enjoy the community side of, take to a few meets, car shows and that will act as a fair investment, likely to at least hold its value while having minimal standing costs. I love the sound of a v8. I have done the flat 4 and 6 cylinders so that would be a good progression. Another requirement is something quite compact to fit in the garage, rear wheel drive and a <£15k price tag.
Any suggestions for a car to live in my garage for the next 7 years would be gratefully received?
Having reached 40 and mid-life crisis pending I realise that for the last 3 years I have spent more and more time driving my 2011 Hyundai i30 locally not having a need to commute like I did 2 years back. The BMW 135i hence rests in the garage, to keep the miles down and it clean. It is taken out for a little drive, a wash them back home.. Having had a drive today I realised that the 135i is such a great car, I can fit the kids in the back yet it is compact, it is really comfortable on a long drive and it goes like stink. For these weekend and evening drives for pure pleasure I don't need such a great allrounder. I miss having fun at slow speeds too. I followed a tuned Focus ST, exhaust popping and pulled it in easily but realised he was probably having more fun with his peddle to the metal squeezing every last horse out of the engine. The 135i is just a quicker car than I am driver and lacks drama in the process of being quick as do many modern cars. I have run it at ~360bhp on a Cobb remap in the past although it is standard at present. Silly speeds appear in seconds as I am sure many of you find in your cars. So would something slower actually be more fun? I guess the Mazda MX5 might be the perfect example of this or a Toyota 86? I have driven a couple of 911s, a 996 and 997. The 997 felt special, sounded special and came alive up the rev range but wasn't as punchy as my 135i. I fear one could be more costly to run than I can afford and I just didn't connect with it at the price they are for a good one! I might feel better about a boxter? Nissan GTR, too fast, too digital feeling. Felt like my 135i in grown up form. On the classic front, I have driven a MGB, too slow, lack of brakes! Jaguar XJS, liked that a lot but feel like I am not at that sort of a classic car stage of life quite yet!
Keeping a cheap run around works for me e.g. the i30 so the BMW can probably be swapped for something more compromised, more of a toy. I am attracted by the thought of a true pre-1980 classic I can enjoy the community side of, take to a few meets, car shows and that will act as a fair investment, likely to at least hold its value while having minimal standing costs. I love the sound of a v8. I have done the flat 4 and 6 cylinders so that would be a good progression. Another requirement is something quite compact to fit in the garage, rear wheel drive and a <£15k price tag.
Any suggestions for a car to live in my garage for the next 7 years would be gratefully received?
TurboJames said:
So would something slower actually be more fun? I guess the Mazda MX5 might be the perfect example of this or a Toyota 86? I have driven a couple of 911s, a 996 and 997. The 997 felt special, sounded special and came alive up the rev range but wasn't as punchy as my 135i.
I think that sums it up! If you felt a 997 was less punchy than your 135i you'd hate any MX5 or GT86! (Based on my experience of a GT86 anyway).
What do you really want something with a turbo and silly grunt, or a weekend toy with an N/A engine that needs some revs?
This sounds like a very similar situation to when I ended up buying my TVR Chimaera 450. I love the analogue feel, the burbling V8, an old-school drivers’ car but with enough of a modern feel to be less compromised than the 60’s and 70’s classics. I use it for sunny Sunday fun, but have toured around France and the UK with it. Smooth, comfortable and an animal when you want it to be.
As it happens, it will be going up for sale shortly too...
As it happens, it will be going up for sale shortly too...
Mr Tidy said:
I think that sums it up!
If you felt a 997 was less punchy than your 135i you'd hate any MX5 or GT86! (Based on my experience of a GT86 anyway).
What do you really want something with a turbo and silly grunt, or a weekend toy with an N/A engine that needs some revs?
Good question. I would prefer a bigger NA engine to provide the grunt over a turbo, even at the expense of some performance. If you felt a 997 was less punchy than your 135i you'd hate any MX5 or GT86! (Based on my experience of a GT86 anyway).
What do you really want something with a turbo and silly grunt, or a weekend toy with an N/A engine that needs some revs?
PomBstard said:
Some variety of transaxle Porsche might fit the bill. Or RX7/RX8? Older BMW - E30 323i?
None are likely to be as punchy as a turbo charged 3.0 six, but they would all be fun at less silly speeds.
BMW E30 323i interesting suggestion, cheers. That I will research 🤓None are likely to be as punchy as a turbo charged 3.0 six, but they would all be fun at less silly speeds.
Love the style of the Mazda RX7 but prefer a bit more torque at lower revs.
FlyingPanda said:
This sounds like a very similar situation to when I ended up buying my TVR Chimaera 450. I love the analogue feel, the burbling V8, an old-school drivers’ car but with enough of a modern feel to be less compromised than the 60’s and 70’s classics. I use it for sunny Sunday fun, but have toured around France and the UK with it. Smooth, comfortable and an animal when you want it to be.
As it happens, it will be going up for sale shortly too...
Interesting you suggested a TVR Chimaera, this is the car my search keeps coming back to at present. It certainly ticks all the boxes ??As it happens, it will be going up for sale shortly too...
My main concern would be ongoing running costs with regards to reliability, they seem a bit of a lottery in that regard? Various engine versions and ensuring the chassis is sold? After driving such well made Japanese and German cars a Friday special from Blackpool could be a shock..That said, as a toy I have the i30 to get me from a to b so it is a compromise I could accept and make ownership more interesting ?? Certainly the sound they have even at low speeds is the sort of experience I am looking for. Smiles per mile.
Edited by TurboJames on Sunday 2nd August 07:53
TurboJames said:
Interesting you suggested a TVR Chimaera, this is the car my search keeps coming back to at present. It certainly ticks all the boxes ??
My main concern would be ongoing running costs with regards to reliability, they seem a bit of a lottery in that regard? Various engine versions and ensuring the chassis is sold? After driving such well made Japanese and German cars a Friday special from Blackpool could be a shock..That said, as a toy I have the i30 to get me from a to b so it is a compromise I could accept and make ownership more interesting ?? Certainly the sound they have even at low speeds is the sort of experience I am looking for. Smiles per mile.
Yes, absolutely agree that the ‘smiles per mile’ is what it’s all about. In terms of reliability I think a lot of the ‘concerns’ seem to come from people who’ve never actually owned one! I believe the very early (60’s and 70’s) models may have had some issues, but the later V8’s are based on the Rover unit which is very strong (especially in 4.5 litre form) and easy to maintain.My main concern would be ongoing running costs with regards to reliability, they seem a bit of a lottery in that regard? Various engine versions and ensuring the chassis is sold? After driving such well made Japanese and German cars a Friday special from Blackpool could be a shock..That said, as a toy I have the i30 to get me from a to b so it is a compromise I could accept and make ownership more interesting ?? Certainly the sound they have even at low speeds is the sort of experience I am looking for. Smiles per mile.
There are a few known electrical gremlins that can creep in to some of the earlier cars, but there are mods for these now. I had all of my electrics checked over by a leading TVR specialist because I didn’t want to get stranded on holiday, and he told me I was being paranoid! To be fair, I’ve used it for everything from commuting to some fully loaded long high-speed trips and it’s never missed a beat.
The key is getting good one to start with, but that’s true of any car.
They are fabulous things though - I highly recommend you try one!
There aren’t that many V8s around at that budget, you’ll always come back to a Chimaera really. Your best bet is to follow www.carandclassic.co.uk adverts to see what comes up and the auction houses like H&H, Anglia car auctions, Brightwells etc
Personally at that sort of budget, I’d be looking at sixties tin tops, Alfa Giulias, BMW 1602s, Lancia Fulvias which will be a hoot to drive, fairly simple to maintain and nthere are a few nice Elan +2s at that price too
Personally at that sort of budget, I’d be looking at sixties tin tops, Alfa Giulias, BMW 1602s, Lancia Fulvias which will be a hoot to drive, fairly simple to maintain and nthere are a few nice Elan +2s at that price too
PomBstard said:
Some variety of transaxle Porsche might fit the bill. Or RX7/RX8? Older BMW - E30 323i?
None are likely to be as punchy as a turbo charged 3.0 six, but they would all be fun at less silly speeds.
Only Transaxle Porsche I'd even consider is the 944 turbo or 968. And £15k is a bit light for a nice example now. A good MK1 Focus RS, or a MK2 RS if the budget could be stretched.None are likely to be as punchy as a turbo charged 3.0 six, but they would all be fun at less silly speeds.
The main thing to be concerned about with classics is bodywork imho.
Anything made of steel from the 60s or 70s really has done some surviving. If it has been bodged to sell, your immaculate classic can reveal itself over a couple of years as potentially ruinous project of unknown scope. And fixing rusty bodywork properly = ££££????
TVRs however are not a bottomless pit. There is only so much you can spend on them to bring them back to perfect.
Chassis can be repaired or completely replaced for a known cost. The bodies are infinitely repairable. The interiors are simple. The mechanicals (apart from some models with in-house engines) are from plentiful mass-market sources.
Anything made of steel from the 60s or 70s really has done some surviving. If it has been bodged to sell, your immaculate classic can reveal itself over a couple of years as potentially ruinous project of unknown scope. And fixing rusty bodywork properly = ££££????
TVRs however are not a bottomless pit. There is only so much you can spend on them to bring them back to perfect.
Chassis can be repaired or completely replaced for a known cost. The bodies are infinitely repairable. The interiors are simple. The mechanicals (apart from some models with in-house engines) are from plentiful mass-market sources.
It’s a good question and I totally agree with your philosophy that performance isn’t everything. In fact the true appeal of classics (IMHO) is exploring and driving around their “characteristics”. I’ve had a Griffith, Elise, 996 and 80s BMW. All have great meet/show scenes. I’m currently in a S2000 and while I love the car, I feel a bit lost in the JDM/Facebook forum world!
Anyway to the point. £15k is a lot of money, but if you go old enough to be past the bottom of the depreciation curve it doesn’t go far.
I’d suggest an Elise, S2000, possibly a Boxster. I didn’t keep the Elise long - it was too good (not interesting to me) but they are great driver’s cars. TVRs needn’t cost much to run but you need to be hands on and give them regular attention.
Left field suggestion would be a Merc 190 16v or even a classic hot hatch?
Anyway to the point. £15k is a lot of money, but if you go old enough to be past the bottom of the depreciation curve it doesn’t go far.
I’d suggest an Elise, S2000, possibly a Boxster. I didn’t keep the Elise long - it was too good (not interesting to me) but they are great driver’s cars. TVRs needn’t cost much to run but you need to be hands on and give them regular attention.
Left field suggestion would be a Merc 190 16v or even a classic hot hatch?
swisstoni said:
TVRs however are not a bottomless pit. There is only so much you can spend on them to bring them back to perfect.
Chassis can be repaired or completely replaced for a known cost. The bodies are infinitely repairable. The interiors are simple. The mechanicals (apart from some models with in-house engines) are from plentiful mass-market sources.
I've considered buying a 400 wedge a few times, for the looks and the noise. But I wasn't expecting great handling or speed. And I definitely wouldn't fancy repairing/respraying the body, or taking the body off to weld the chassis. Chassis can be repaired or completely replaced for a known cost. The bodies are infinitely repairable. The interiors are simple. The mechanicals (apart from some models with in-house engines) are from plentiful mass-market sources.
TurboJames said:
Love the style of the Mazda RX7 but prefer a bit more torque at lower revs.
Have you driven one and been disappointed? I'd say the RX-7 picks up pretty strongly from low down. The sequential turbo is a complex system but the clear benefit is that one little turbo blows hard from 2,000rpm or so. Combined with the light weight (1275kg), it pulls fairly hard from low down and then keeps going to 8,000, you can leave it in 3rd or 4th for most roads. Rotortorque (JayDee) remap helps, noticeably brings the power in early. I wouldn't say I feel much difference in torque between my RX-7 and my 350Z, with its biggish N/A engine.There are lots of reasons not to buy an RX-7, but I wouldn't say that a lack of torque is among them ;-)
blade7 said:
swisstoni said:
TVRs however are not a bottomless pit. There is only so much you can spend on them to bring them back to perfect.
Chassis can be repaired or completely replaced for a known cost. The bodies are infinitely repairable. The interiors are simple. The mechanicals (apart from some models with in-house engines) are from plentiful mass-market sources.
I've considered buying a 400 wedge a few times, for the looks and the noise. But I wasn't expecting great handling or speed. And I definitely wouldn't fancy repairing/respraying the body, or taking the body off to weld the chassis. Chassis can be repaired or completely replaced for a known cost. The bodies are infinitely repairable. The interiors are simple. The mechanicals (apart from some models with in-house engines) are from plentiful mass-market sources.
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