Mk 1 TT V6 Manual or BMW Z4 3.0
Discussion
Looking at a second car for me, for weekends and occaisional weekday work commutes or trips to meetings. Have a family car so dont need 4 seats etc.
Both must be manual and 6 cylinder, so 3.2 in TT or 3.0 with Z4 looking at 1st gen E85? With the N52? With the TT it would need to be coupe form as I dont like look of convertible, with BMW either soft top or coupe. Nice stereo and leather a bonus.
I've had R32s so know about timing chain issues on the 3.2, but not owned a BMW with the N52, think they did a 230bhp and 265bhp variant, latter preferable. Sneaking under high VED would be good.
Budget of £6k. It would be nice not to loose too much cash at resale time, couple years maybe. Prob look to buy around new year so hopefully a few bargains around at that time of year.
Also like e46 330CI but concerned about rust and sub frames etc plus a bit slow? Don't like 350z and a boxter at this price point is likely to lead to financial ruin if bits go wrong.
Would be keen to hear peoples ownership experiences with either, good and bad, any specific items to look at when viewing. For me I like to be able to cruise along with a decent engine sound track and have something that still handles well at 8/10ths when pushing on.
Thanks
Both must be manual and 6 cylinder, so 3.2 in TT or 3.0 with Z4 looking at 1st gen E85? With the N52? With the TT it would need to be coupe form as I dont like look of convertible, with BMW either soft top or coupe. Nice stereo and leather a bonus.
I've had R32s so know about timing chain issues on the 3.2, but not owned a BMW with the N52, think they did a 230bhp and 265bhp variant, latter preferable. Sneaking under high VED would be good.
Budget of £6k. It would be nice not to loose too much cash at resale time, couple years maybe. Prob look to buy around new year so hopefully a few bargains around at that time of year.
Also like e46 330CI but concerned about rust and sub frames etc plus a bit slow? Don't like 350z and a boxter at this price point is likely to lead to financial ruin if bits go wrong.
Would be keen to hear peoples ownership experiences with either, good and bad, any specific items to look at when viewing. For me I like to be able to cruise along with a decent engine sound track and have something that still handles well at 8/10ths when pushing on.
Thanks
With the caveat of n=1 I owned a manual E86 Z4 3.0si Sport for 8 years and took it from 1000 to 40000 miles, using it as my daily driver. I never once had any mechanical issue at all and my costs were just servicing and the usual consumables. I would replace the standard run flats with proper tyres. The M Sport seats (standard on the Sport, optional on the SE) are desirable iirc though I never drove a car with the standard seats. Otherwise it’s a great car that I regret selling. It’s got enough power to put a smile on your face, requires it’s neck to be wrung to get the most out of it but is not so powerful that you’ll lose your license doing so. One of the foibles, particularly of cars with the stiffer M Sport suspension, was the apparently bone crunching ride, even after ditching the run flats. I never found this a problem, even when I was running OEM tyres, perhaps because I was younger than the overweight, rheumatic middle aged blokes who road tested the car. However it’s perhaps not the most pleasant car for a passenger if you drive it enthusiastically. A long test drive is a must.
I’ve only briefly driven a TT and whilst I can’t fairly compare a car I drove for 30 minutes 10 years ago to the car I’ve done more miles in than any other, from everything I’ve read even though the Zed might be flawed, the choice between the two is easy. The Bimmer even looks better to my eyes and it’s certainly rarer.
The Z4 forum is a really excellent resource for more information on the car. Or at least it was I’ve not been on there in a while.
I’ve only briefly driven a TT and whilst I can’t fairly compare a car I drove for 30 minutes 10 years ago to the car I’ve done more miles in than any other, from everything I’ve read even though the Zed might be flawed, the choice between the two is easy. The Bimmer even looks better to my eyes and it’s certainly rarer.
The Z4 forum is a really excellent resource for more information on the car. Or at least it was I’ve not been on there in a while.
Edited by DeWar on Saturday 26th September 17:28
Well I've absolutely no experience of the VAG V6 engine in a TT or anything else!
But I've run two Z4 3.0Si Coupes for over 5 years (until I got carried away last December and bought an M Coupe).
The E85 (Roadster) came out in 2003 and had the M54 engine that had 231PS in the 3.0i, then there was a facelift in early 2006 when it got replaced by the 3.0Si N52 engine with 265PS and the E86 (Coupe) got added to the range.
I've also had an E46 325ti Compact, E91 325i and E90 330i as daily drivers, and based on those I don't think an E46 330i would feel nearly as special as a Z4. Sitting low just in front of the rear wheels with a long bonnet makes the Z4 feel special before you even fire it up. And thankfully you can hear the engine a bit more in a Z4!
All of them (barring the M) were in Band K for RFL, so £330 a year even if they were registered after 2006.
Both engines are pretty bullet-proof, although ancillaries can need replacement. N52 engines have an electric water pump which will die - it's just a question of when! And when they do the engine will overheat in less than a mile before going into limp-mode. My first E86 had one die at 60K miles but my 2nd was on the original at 91K when I sold it. It's inconvenient when it happens, and BMW will charge you over £500 for a new pump. But the same Pierburg pump can be bought elsewhere for about half that price.
All non-M Z4s came fitted with run-flat tyres that often cause tram-lining and make the ride pretty harsh because the tyre walls have no "give". Many people swap to normal tyres and buy some Tyre-Weld and a compressor. But if you like a belt and braces solution a 17" space-saver from an E46 330i/330d fits (16 inch ones don't clear the front brakes).
There was only one trim level on pre-facelifts, but facelifts came in either SE or Sport trim. The Sport model had M-Sport seats, steering wheel and suspension (stiffer and 15 mm lower) as standard and are well worth looking for because used M-Sport seats typically fetch £700/800 a pair, although there are SEs that had them as an option.
But as has already been said it's well worth a visit to z4forum, and probably to a TT forum for some research.
But I've run two Z4 3.0Si Coupes for over 5 years (until I got carried away last December and bought an M Coupe).
The E85 (Roadster) came out in 2003 and had the M54 engine that had 231PS in the 3.0i, then there was a facelift in early 2006 when it got replaced by the 3.0Si N52 engine with 265PS and the E86 (Coupe) got added to the range.
I've also had an E46 325ti Compact, E91 325i and E90 330i as daily drivers, and based on those I don't think an E46 330i would feel nearly as special as a Z4. Sitting low just in front of the rear wheels with a long bonnet makes the Z4 feel special before you even fire it up. And thankfully you can hear the engine a bit more in a Z4!
All of them (barring the M) were in Band K for RFL, so £330 a year even if they were registered after 2006.
Both engines are pretty bullet-proof, although ancillaries can need replacement. N52 engines have an electric water pump which will die - it's just a question of when! And when they do the engine will overheat in less than a mile before going into limp-mode. My first E86 had one die at 60K miles but my 2nd was on the original at 91K when I sold it. It's inconvenient when it happens, and BMW will charge you over £500 for a new pump. But the same Pierburg pump can be bought elsewhere for about half that price.
All non-M Z4s came fitted with run-flat tyres that often cause tram-lining and make the ride pretty harsh because the tyre walls have no "give". Many people swap to normal tyres and buy some Tyre-Weld and a compressor. But if you like a belt and braces solution a 17" space-saver from an E46 330i/330d fits (16 inch ones don't clear the front brakes).
There was only one trim level on pre-facelifts, but facelifts came in either SE or Sport trim. The Sport model had M-Sport seats, steering wheel and suspension (stiffer and 15 mm lower) as standard and are well worth looking for because used M-Sport seats typically fetch £700/800 a pair, although there are SEs that had them as an option.
But as has already been said it's well worth a visit to z4forum, and probably to a TT forum for some research.
Edited by Mr Tidy on Saturday 26th September 23:07
Edited by Mr Tidy on Saturday 26th September 23:13
Thanks Dewar and Mrtidy for the detailed replies. I really like the design of the TT but must admit it's getting on a bit now and people are saying the steering is quite wooden.
I'm leaning more towards the BMW from looking at videos and reviews online but the only way to tell is by seeing and driving. Had forgotten about the runflats so that's a good shout, had them on my Mini Cooper S and they were horrible. Water pump not too expensive to do then. SE would be ok if it had sports seats and decent alloys.
I'm leaning more towards the BMW from looking at videos and reviews online but the only way to tell is by seeing and driving. Had forgotten about the runflats so that's a good shout, had them on my Mini Cooper S and they were horrible. Water pump not too expensive to do then. SE would be ok if it had sports seats and decent alloys.
If you want a more involving, rewarding driver's car, get the BMW. If you want a more relaxing drive and a more sure-footed platform in adverse weather, get the TT.
I have a MK1 3.2 TT convertible, but it's something I cruise around in rather than drive for the thrill of driving.
Also, the lack of modern infotainment can be fixed by getting a double-din center console (available new on eBay from a guy in Germany) and fitting your choice of either RNS-E or any number of double-din modern units with Android Auto/Carplay.
I have a MK1 3.2 TT convertible, but it's something I cruise around in rather than drive for the thrill of driving.
Also, the lack of modern infotainment can be fixed by getting a double-din center console (available new on eBay from a guy in Germany) and fitting your choice of either RNS-E or any number of double-din modern units with Android Auto/Carplay.
DeWar said:
It’s got enough power to put a smile on your face, requires it’s neck to be wrung to get the most out of it but is not so powerful that you’ll lose your license doing so.
I had a 3.0Si Coupe, allegedly remapped up to 280ish bhp. I would have to take issue that it's not powerful enough to lose your licence 
Mine pulled hard up to 155 and used to obliterate my mates RX8. It was certainly not a slow car and you can very easily lose your licence in it, hitting 3 figure speeds was trivially easy.OP I've driven the TT V6 and the BMW was better in my opinion (as is the 350z but you said you don't want one). The TT felt like a tank, it did make a nice noise though.
TameRacingDriver said:
I had a 3.0Si Coupe, allegedly remapped up to 280ish bhp. I would have to take issue that it's not powerful enough to lose your licence Mine pulled hard up to 155 and used to obliterate my mates RX8. It was certainly not a slow car and you can very easily lose your licence in it, hitting 3 figure speeds was trivially easy.
That's a fair point, my Z4 Coupes were both standard so 265PS according to BMW. But if you got to the red-line in 3rd gear you'd be close to a three figure speed so you had to choose the time and place to let rip carefully. Still it was well worth the effort when you did! Mine pulled hard up to 155 and used to obliterate my mates RX8. It was certainly not a slow car and you can very easily lose your licence in it, hitting 3 figure speeds was trivially easy.Ok so after a few days pondering, I have much want for a Z4 3.0SI manual but in Coupe form. I could get a cheaper roadster now but deep down i just prefer the looks of the Coupe, decent Coupes are about £7.5k+ for what i'm looking at so gives me about 3- 4 months to do some saving! Now if only there were some Pistonheads Sunday Services where I could have a proper nosey around one to make sure..
That's unfortunate timing!
There was a local car meet on Sunday the 13th and we had eight Z4s there including two M Coupes and three 3.0Si Coupes.
But because of the revised Covid restrictions that came into force on the 14th the venue have cancelled all meets for the forseeable future.
It might be worth getting onto the z4forum and seeing if you can find someone local with a Coupe who'll let you have a look at it - I had a couple of people pore over mine before I took them out in it.
Failing that just find one up for sale by a trader!
If you do decide to get one just make sure you check the spec as BMW were pretty mean with it other than all UK cars having climate control and leather seats with electric adjustment and driver's memory as standard. Bi-Xenon headlights, rear parking sensors, cruise control, Multi-Function Steering Wheel, heated seats, cup-holders, power-fold mirrors and (antiquated) Sat Nav were on the options list so if any of those are essential bear that in mind if you are searching. Of those, cruise and cup-holders are pretty easy to retro-fit.
Good luck.
There was a local car meet on Sunday the 13th and we had eight Z4s there including two M Coupes and three 3.0Si Coupes.
But because of the revised Covid restrictions that came into force on the 14th the venue have cancelled all meets for the forseeable future.
It might be worth getting onto the z4forum and seeing if you can find someone local with a Coupe who'll let you have a look at it - I had a couple of people pore over mine before I took them out in it.
Failing that just find one up for sale by a trader!
If you do decide to get one just make sure you check the spec as BMW were pretty mean with it other than all UK cars having climate control and leather seats with electric adjustment and driver's memory as standard. Bi-Xenon headlights, rear parking sensors, cruise control, Multi-Function Steering Wheel, heated seats, cup-holders, power-fold mirrors and (antiquated) Sat Nav were on the options list so if any of those are essential bear that in mind if you are searching. Of those, cruise and cup-holders are pretty easy to retro-fit.
Good luck.
I really like the TT for what it is, they are a massive bargain at the moment, and get some uncalled for flak.
However, we have one in the family, and they feel solidly built but definitely not agile. Good in a straight line but zero fun or feedback when cornering. Seems daft saying they are a good cruiser given the diminutive proportions but definitely this rather than a track toy.
However, we have one in the family, and they feel solidly built but definitely not agile. Good in a straight line but zero fun or feedback when cornering. Seems daft saying they are a good cruiser given the diminutive proportions but definitely this rather than a track toy.
si_xsi said:
Ok so after a few days pondering, I have much want for a Z4 3.0SI manual but in Coupe form. I could get a cheaper roadster now but deep down i just prefer the looks of the Coupe, decent Coupes are about £7.5k+ for what i'm looking at so gives me about 3- 4 months to do some saving! Now if only there were some Pistonheads Sunday Services where I could have a proper nosey around one to make sure..
Totally where i was right down to the price point of what i ended up buying. We needed an auto but £7,500 seems a sensible price point for a good car. Some people asking silly money for high miles / cars with spurious history / poorly maintained but there are still good cars out there for not a massive amount of money.Mr Tidy said:
Both engines are pretty bullet-proof, although ancillaries can need replacement. N52 engines have an electric water pump which will die - it's just a question of when! And when they do the engine will overheat in less than a mile before going into limp-mode. My first E86 had one die at 60K miles but my 2nd was on the original at 91K when I sold it. It's inconvenient when it happens, and BMW will charge you over £500 for a new pump. But the same Pierburg pump can be bought elsewhere for about half that price.
Are the replacement pumps any more relaible than the originals?si_xsi said:
Ok so after a few days pondering, I have much want for a Z4 3.0SI manual but in Coupe form. I could get a cheaper roadster now but deep down i just prefer the looks of the Coupe, decent Coupes are about £7.5k+ for what i'm looking at so gives me about 3- 4 months to do some saving! Now if only there were some Pistonheads Sunday Services where I could have a proper nosey around one to make sure..
Years ago I was torn between an early 3.0SE roadster and a coupe. As it was a second car I decided that despite much preferring the looks of the coupe I went with the roadster as being able to get the roof down made it more of a weekend treat ( the roadster was also a few grand cheaper). It was a good reliable car but for 1 flaw. Every now and then the steering would have a mind of it's own. It seemed to be a common complaint on the z4 forum and nobody seemed to know how to resolve it. Some seemed to think it had something to do with the ECU getting hot. It did seem more frequent on sunny days.I always regretted not getting the coupe as I felt a bit of a tool driving with the roof down (i'm bald and ugly). So I eventually traded it in for a coupe. The coupe looked much nicer sat on my drive but even with the steering fault the roadster drove so much better. The coupe was just far too stiff. I put it down to the car being design as a roadster. The roadster chassis is stiff so as soon as BMW welded a steel roof on I think it just became far too stiff.
Test drove a mk2 3.2 TT once. It was unremarkable to drive but to me it felt much more solidly built than the BMW.
nunpuncher said:
Years ago I was torn between an early 3.0SE roadster and a coupe. As it was a second car I decided that despite much preferring the looks of the coupe I went with the roadster as being able to get the roof down made it more of a weekend treat ( the roadster was also a few grand cheaper). It was a good reliable car but for 1 flaw. Every now and then the steering would have a mind of it's own. It seemed to be a common complaint on the z4 forum and nobody seemed to know how to resolve it. Some seemed to think it had something to do with the ECU getting hot. It did seem more frequent on sunny days.
I always regretted not getting the coupe as I felt a bit of a tool driving with the roof down (i'm bald and ugly). So I eventually traded it in for a coupe. The coupe looked much nicer sat on my drive but even with the steering fault the roadster drove so much better. The coupe was just far too stiff. I put it down to the car being design as a roadster. The roadster chassis is stiff so as soon as BMW welded a steel roof on I think it just became far too stiff.
Test drove a mk2 3.2 TT once. It was unremarkable to drive but to me it felt much more solidly built than the BMW.
Someone on z4forum has found a solution to the "sticky steering issue" that can be solved by adjusting a reluctor ring on the steering column:- https://z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1782758...I always regretted not getting the coupe as I felt a bit of a tool driving with the roof down (i'm bald and ugly). So I eventually traded it in for a coupe. The coupe looked much nicer sat on my drive but even with the steering fault the roadster drove so much better. The coupe was just far too stiff. I put it down to the car being design as a roadster. The roadster chassis is stiff so as soon as BMW welded a steel roof on I think it just became far too stiff.
Test drove a mk2 3.2 TT once. It was unremarkable to drive but to me it felt much more solidly built than the BMW.
The Coupe is way stiffer than the Roadster, but as I've never wanted any sort of convertible I've only had Coupes. And while they are stiff I don't think the run-flat tyres help.
I bought a Z4M Coupe last December and it has hydraulic PAS and normal tyres so it just drives so much better - plus the engine is fantastic!
Anyway to answer "PanAm"s question the Pierburg water pump won't last any longer than the original as it is the same part! But 60K to 90K doesn't seem too bad to me - I had to fit a new water pump to a Capri 2.8 Injection that had done less than 40K!
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