Comfortable ploughing 15-20k into a straight ICE car now?
Discussion
On the lookout for a family car. Something I'd be keeping for some time.
I want something with space, so we're mainly on the lookout for Estates, certain SUVs and in some cases, big hatches like the Superb and BMW 3/5 GT.
But my question is this.
How comfortable would you be ploughing that kind of money into a diesel or a petrol?
I feel like a straight ICE Gasoline would about the lowest option to consider. Preferably, it'd be a hybrid or plug-in hybrid (Rav4, Outlander PHEV, Passat GTE etc). Full EV seems to be just too expensive at this juncture and options are limited.
One car we do really like is the V90, but in that price range its diesels all the way down and I am really not sure about getting into a diesel, that might have already done 50-60k miles and keeping it for 5 years +.
I want something with space, so we're mainly on the lookout for Estates, certain SUVs and in some cases, big hatches like the Superb and BMW 3/5 GT.
But my question is this.
How comfortable would you be ploughing that kind of money into a diesel or a petrol?
I feel like a straight ICE Gasoline would about the lowest option to consider. Preferably, it'd be a hybrid or plug-in hybrid (Rav4, Outlander PHEV, Passat GTE etc). Full EV seems to be just too expensive at this juncture and options are limited.
One car we do really like is the V90, but in that price range its diesels all the way down and I am really not sure about getting into a diesel, that might have already done 50-60k miles and keeping it for 5 years +.
I wouldn't think twice about it & would be happy to plough 100k+ into an ice car, buy a diesel if you do over 10-12k+ a year if not buy a petrol/hybrid.
Petrol V60 T5
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202008172...
Petrol V60 T5
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202008172...
15k onthose cars your buying second hand? Or have I misunderstood.
No problem if someone’s already taken 45-50% Off the list price on a three year old.
However, I do think, that the current/looming long term down turn will really accelerate the depreciation on diesels, with many people turning to electric and the change in the working from home which I think is now irreversible. I’d suggest the government will also be promoting electric deals and punishing diesel hard soon.
Put it this way, my family currently has 4 fairly new diesels on the driveway. Three of them are probably no longer needed. Whole family, averaging 20k each mileage last year, now working from home. With no prospect of that changing. God knows what’s happening to the values.
And I’d buy a petrol now, having seen my mileage drop from 24k to about 5k (with more private motoring than before too).
Hate to say it but you’d be a mug to buy diesel now.
No problem if someone’s already taken 45-50% Off the list price on a three year old.
However, I do think, that the current/looming long term down turn will really accelerate the depreciation on diesels, with many people turning to electric and the change in the working from home which I think is now irreversible. I’d suggest the government will also be promoting electric deals and punishing diesel hard soon.
Put it this way, my family currently has 4 fairly new diesels on the driveway. Three of them are probably no longer needed. Whole family, averaging 20k each mileage last year, now working from home. With no prospect of that changing. God knows what’s happening to the values.
And I’d buy a petrol now, having seen my mileage drop from 24k to about 5k (with more private motoring than before too).
Hate to say it but you’d be a mug to buy diesel now.
TTmonkey said:
15k onthose cars your buying second hand? Or have I misunderstood.
No problem if someone’s already taken 45-50% Off the list price on a three year old.
However, I do think, that the current/looming long term down turn will really accelerate the depreciation on diesels, with many people turning to electric and the change in the working from home which I think is now irreversible. I’d suggest the government will also be promoting electric deals and punishing diesel hard soon.
Put it this way, my family currently has 4 fairly new diesels on the driveway. Three of them are probably no longer needed. Whole family, averaging 20k each mileage last year, now working from home. With no prospect of that changing. God knows what’s happening to the values.
And I’d buy a petrol now, having seen my mileage drop from 24k to about 5k (with more private motoring than before too).
Hate to say it but you’d be a mug to buy diesel now.
Good points there but I think it will depend on the vehicle type. I could see something like a 420d tanking but a decent sized family SUV or even an estate that you can do the weekly shop in then pack up with crap and go on a family staycation might actually do well in the current climate.No problem if someone’s already taken 45-50% Off the list price on a three year old.
However, I do think, that the current/looming long term down turn will really accelerate the depreciation on diesels, with many people turning to electric and the change in the working from home which I think is now irreversible. I’d suggest the government will also be promoting electric deals and punishing diesel hard soon.
Put it this way, my family currently has 4 fairly new diesels on the driveway. Three of them are probably no longer needed. Whole family, averaging 20k each mileage last year, now working from home. With no prospect of that changing. God knows what’s happening to the values.
And I’d buy a petrol now, having seen my mileage drop from 24k to about 5k (with more private motoring than before too).
Hate to say it but you’d be a mug to buy diesel now.
The cheaper EVs are also useless for the above due to range. Speaking to a friend at the weekend who just had a terrible time taking his 2 kids up to Cairngorm for a long weekend in his Nissan Leaf. Charge points were few and far between, The whole trip including accommodation had to be planned around charging the bloody thing. loaded up with luggage the range shot through the floor. When his son complained about being cold he was too scared to turn the heating on incase they never made it back to the lodge. I dare say the £100k ones offer a better experience.
nunpuncher said:
TTmonkey said:
15k onthose cars your buying second hand? Or have I misunderstood.
No problem if someone’s already taken 45-50% Off the list price on a three year old.
However, I do think, that the current/looming long term down turn will really accelerate the depreciation on diesels, with many people turning to electric and the change in the working from home which I think is now irreversible. I’d suggest the government will also be promoting electric deals and punishing diesel hard soon.
Put it this way, my family currently has 4 fairly new diesels on the driveway. Three of them are probably no longer needed. Whole family, averaging 20k each mileage last year, now working from home. With no prospect of that changing. God knows what’s happening to the values.
And I’d buy a petrol now, having seen my mileage drop from 24k to about 5k (with more private motoring than before too).
Hate to say it but you’d be a mug to buy diesel now.
Good points there but I think it will depend on the vehicle type. I could see something like a 420d tanking but a decent sized family SUV or even an estate that you can do the weekly shop in then pack up with crap and go on a family staycation might actually do well in the current climate.No problem if someone’s already taken 45-50% Off the list price on a three year old.
However, I do think, that the current/looming long term down turn will really accelerate the depreciation on diesels, with many people turning to electric and the change in the working from home which I think is now irreversible. I’d suggest the government will also be promoting electric deals and punishing diesel hard soon.
Put it this way, my family currently has 4 fairly new diesels on the driveway. Three of them are probably no longer needed. Whole family, averaging 20k each mileage last year, now working from home. With no prospect of that changing. God knows what’s happening to the values.
And I’d buy a petrol now, having seen my mileage drop from 24k to about 5k (with more private motoring than before too).
Hate to say it but you’d be a mug to buy diesel now.
The cheaper EVs are also useless for the above due to range. Speaking to a friend at the weekend who just had a terrible time taking his 2 kids up to Cairngorm for a long weekend in his Nissan Leaf. Charge points were few and far between, The whole trip including accommodation had to be planned around charging the bloody thing. loaded up with luggage the range shot through the floor. When his son complained about being cold he was too scared to turn the heating on incase they never made it back to the lodge. I dare say the £100k ones offer a better experience.
People will be conned into them.
TTmonkey said:
15k onthose cars your buying second hand? Or have I misunderstood.
Hate to say it but you’d be a mug to buy diesel now.
I have to say you or anyone else would be a mug to buy a car that doesn't suit their needs so if they're doing the miles a diesel still make perfect sense.Hate to say it but you’d be a mug to buy diesel now.
I wouldn't think twice about buying a diesel as it suits my requirements.
ZX10R NIN said:
TTmonkey said:
15k onthose cars your buying second hand? Or have I misunderstood.
Hate to say it but you’d be a mug to buy diesel now.
I have to say you or anyone else would be a mug to buy a car that doesn't suit their needs so if they're doing the miles a diesel still make perfect sense.Hate to say it but you’d be a mug to buy diesel now.
I wouldn't think twice about buying a diesel as it suits my requirements.
If you can afford to take the loss then that’s fine.
Otispunkmeyer said:
... and keeping it for 5 years +.
5 years should be fine. 2030 is the target to ban new ICE cars for UK.And you don't have to keep it, you can sell at any point if you see the tide changing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_fossil_...
TTmonkey said:
Yeah but not in diesels. It’s going one way. 50% reduction In sales in the 4 years before the big change in how we work. WFH isn’t going anywhere now, many employers are looking to jettison office space.
Yes it's reducing BIK has a big part to play but people will still want diesels the used & new market have different parameters, new I'm sourcing less diesels as they're hurt by the new regulations, hybrids are the main drivetrain with petrol & diesel about the same with EV's still being a small part of my sourcing.Used it's still predominately diesels as it seems to suit most of my clients needs with petrol then hybrid drivetrains next (the used market is still wary of high repair costs on hybrids) & EV's a tiny percentage.
If the government took away all incentives & just let the market go where it wanted I think diesel sales would still be strong one thing I am finding is that used diesel hybrids seem to be getting snapped up at the moment.
I had a similar dilemma when buying last year. I was looking at used cars, but ended up buying my first ever new car, a 335d BMW. My logic was based on the following
- Audi had just released the new S4 and S6 with diesel engines - they've clearly identified a market for diesel going forward
- The guaranteed future value was almost 50% at 4 years suggesting that BMW had confidence in the market
- While electric may have made the petrol car doing short runs redundant, there is no feasible replacement for diesels for high mileage users
- All this talk of synthetic fuels makes me question if we really are going to ban the ICE outside of major cities!
If your really worried, get a car on PCP or lease, if things go south, you can hand it back.
Personally I think that there will be an awakening in the near future as to the size of the carbon footprint that is created in the production of electric vehicles, bearing in mind the huge scale mining that takes place to get the metals for battery production!
- Audi had just released the new S4 and S6 with diesel engines - they've clearly identified a market for diesel going forward
- The guaranteed future value was almost 50% at 4 years suggesting that BMW had confidence in the market
- While electric may have made the petrol car doing short runs redundant, there is no feasible replacement for diesels for high mileage users
- All this talk of synthetic fuels makes me question if we really are going to ban the ICE outside of major cities!
If your really worried, get a car on PCP or lease, if things go south, you can hand it back.
Personally I think that there will be an awakening in the near future as to the size of the carbon footprint that is created in the production of electric vehicles, bearing in mind the huge scale mining that takes place to get the metals for battery production!
We're looking at say 3-7 year old used cars. Most of these cars are ICE, with a minority of electrified cars.
People are still going to need cars in the future, and these ones won't be undercut by brand new cars at that price. So this cohort of cars will still be needed and still be driven for the next 10+ years.
There aren't many plug in hybrids in this cohort, and the ones that exist have fairly short battery only ranges, so they are more like an ICE car than an EV. Even if the government did want to force everyone to drive hybrids, there wouldn't be nearly enough of them in this price range.
There are two issues with ICE: global warming, and air pollution. Global warming has historically been tackled with road tax graduation, which hasn't been retrospective - once a car is sold, road tax rises only by inflation. Cities have restricted entry to polluting cars retrospectively, however.
Newish petrols are pretty clean, there's a clear anti-NOx, anti-diesel approach to urban air pollution.
So personally I would be happy buying any petrol car today. In terms of diesels, I would want to be fairly sure I was going to get my money's worth in the next three years or so, I wouldn't spend a huge amount on a diesel expecting to keep it for ten+ years or get a good price after five.
As said, if I was buying a brand new diesel I'd definitely get it on PCP to put the political risk on the car company. Petrol, not so bothered.
TTmonkey said:
Yeah but not in diesels. It’s going one way. 50% reduction In sales in the 4 years before the big change in how we work. WFH isn’t going anywhere now, many employers are looking to jettison office space.
This is the latest market share. Thankfully diseasel will die soon, no one should ever have bought one.
ZX10R NIN said:
TTmonkey said:
Yeah but not in diesels. It’s going one way. 50% reduction In sales in the 4 years before the big change in how we work. WFH isn’t going anywhere now, many employers are looking to jettison office space.
Yes it's reducing BIK has a big part to play but people will still want diesels the used & new market have different parameters, new I'm sourcing less diesels as they're hurt by the new regulations, hybrids are the main drivetrain with petrol & diesel about the same with EV's still being a small part of my sourcing.Used it's still predominately diesels as it seems to suit most of my clients needs with petrol then hybrid drivetrains next (the used market is still wary of high repair costs on hybrids) & EV's a tiny percentage.
If the government took away all incentives & just let the market go where it wanted I think diesel sales would still be strong one thing I am finding is that used diesel hybrids seem to be getting snapped up at the moment.
TTmonkey said:
15k onthose cars your buying second hand? Or have I misunderstood.
No problem if someone’s already taken 45-50% Off the list price on a three year old.
However, I do think, that the current/looming long term down turn will really accelerate the depreciation on diesels, with many people turning to electric and the change in the working from home which I think is now irreversible. I’d suggest the government will also be promoting electric deals and punishing diesel hard soon.
Put it this way, my family currently has 4 fairly new diesels on the driveway. Three of them are probably no longer needed. Whole family, averaging 20k each mileage last year, now working from home. With no prospect of that changing. God knows what’s happening to the values.
And I’d buy a petrol now, having seen my mileage drop from 24k to about 5k (with more private motoring than before too).
Hate to say it but you’d be a mug to buy diesel now.
Yes second hand. Not new!No problem if someone’s already taken 45-50% Off the list price on a three year old.
However, I do think, that the current/looming long term down turn will really accelerate the depreciation on diesels, with many people turning to electric and the change in the working from home which I think is now irreversible. I’d suggest the government will also be promoting electric deals and punishing diesel hard soon.
Put it this way, my family currently has 4 fairly new diesels on the driveway. Three of them are probably no longer needed. Whole family, averaging 20k each mileage last year, now working from home. With no prospect of that changing. God knows what’s happening to the values.
And I’d buy a petrol now, having seen my mileage drop from 24k to about 5k (with more private motoring than before too).
Hate to say it but you’d be a mug to buy diesel now.
I don't think I'll ever buy a new car on PCP. Maybe I would do a lease, but I just like to pay the money and have it done with because I don't like having several hundred going out every month. probably doesn't make much logical sense as, no matter which way you slice things, you pay the depreciation, but I like doing it this way.
TTmonkey said:
ZX10R NIN said:
The market won't be gone people will still be doing miles.
Yeah but not in diesels. It’s going one way. 50% reduction In sales in the 4 years before the big change in how we work. WFH isn’t going anywhere now, many employers are looking to jettison office space. Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff