"What's it worth?" and the dynamics of trading
Discussion
If you spend any time in Facebook automotive groups you will not have failed to notice that rather than advertising cars or parts with a stated price, increasingly sellers are putting up adverts with no price and asking "what's it worth?"
Until now I've taken a dim view of this, attributing it to laziness. It's just occurred to me though that we might actually be witnessing a genuine shift in the way private sales are conducted. With the likes of eBay and Collecting Cars having normalised auction-style buying, perhaps the onus is now legitimately on buyers to make offers rather than on sellers to declare a price up front?
I can see the advantages of this model as sellers are not obliged to accept offers, while they may be able to realise a better final sale price than if forced to advertise a "Buy It Now" price as has been the norm in the past.
Am I onto something here? Is it a stupid trend which deserves to die, or a bona fide change in culture?
(There's no point proudly announcing "I don't do Faceache" because the fact is that many do and that's where the vast bulk of car stuff is bought and sold these days. Yes, I lose a few brain cells every time I log in, but to ignore it completely means missing out on a lot of stuff for sale.)
Until now I've taken a dim view of this, attributing it to laziness. It's just occurred to me though that we might actually be witnessing a genuine shift in the way private sales are conducted. With the likes of eBay and Collecting Cars having normalised auction-style buying, perhaps the onus is now legitimately on buyers to make offers rather than on sellers to declare a price up front?
I can see the advantages of this model as sellers are not obliged to accept offers, while they may be able to realise a better final sale price than if forced to advertise a "Buy It Now" price as has been the norm in the past.
Am I onto something here? Is it a stupid trend which deserves to die, or a bona fide change in culture?
(There's no point proudly announcing "I don't do Faceache" because the fact is that many do and that's where the vast bulk of car stuff is bought and sold these days. Yes, I lose a few brain cells every time I log in, but to ignore it completely means missing out on a lot of stuff for sale.)
When I see something for sale whatever it is and where a price says they just say "Offers" I generally pass it by and move on, or depending on how i'm feeling I will low ball them to se what their reaction is, as an example (Not car related) I saw an old Nintendo games console for sale with various games and it said "offers" on Facebook so I sent an offer of £80 which was low but not a complete joke, seller replies saying they have been offered more and it was now sold and in the post, move forward two weeks and the same seller is re advertising it with a price of £200 so they were clearly blagging me, I don't really care but I suppose the point is that just saying "offers" is a waste of everyone's time.
Jamescrs said:
I don't really care but I suppose the point is that just saying "offers" is a waste of everyone's time.
I totally agree and would never advertise without a price. But I do wonder if this becoming an old-fashioned view as auction-style seems to be increasing in popularity.My view is that any part or item should have a listed sale price by the vendor.
The exception perhaps being very rare parts / cars (i'm talking Mclaren F1 levels of rare) or Ferrari 250 GTO. In which case, Auctions generally are best
Then of course you have the option to negotiate on price from that starting point.
My annoyance are people who put up
"Audi S3 seats for sales or swap offerz"
Worse than that, I see on various FB groups are when people don't put a price on an item but instead people go "how much?" and then the person who listed the item says "PM"
Why not just put the bloody price up front rather than PM every single person.
Generally I'd say people who have ordinary items and say "offers" either
1) Don't know the items value and have no idea how to make a reasonable estimate based on other items for sale
2) Think they have something special and hope someone will offer them a lot
3) Know full well what their item is worth but again hope someone will offer them a lot.
Anyone who goes "what's it worth" on a standard Audi A5 for example needs to be banned from selling any item ever!
The exception perhaps being very rare parts / cars (i'm talking Mclaren F1 levels of rare) or Ferrari 250 GTO. In which case, Auctions generally are best
Then of course you have the option to negotiate on price from that starting point.
My annoyance are people who put up
"Audi S3 seats for sales or swap offerz"
Worse than that, I see on various FB groups are when people don't put a price on an item but instead people go "how much?" and then the person who listed the item says "PM"
Why not just put the bloody price up front rather than PM every single person.
Generally I'd say people who have ordinary items and say "offers" either
1) Don't know the items value and have no idea how to make a reasonable estimate based on other items for sale
2) Think they have something special and hope someone will offer them a lot
3) Know full well what their item is worth but again hope someone will offer them a lot.
Anyone who goes "what's it worth" on a standard Audi A5 for example needs to be banned from selling any item ever!
I put an old rook rack up on Facebook for free. Guy came and collected it and saw my old Mini on the drive and messaged me to ask if I wanted to sell it. The missus was keen to see it go, so I said yes I might be interested and he came back with "how much?".
In my mind, I think he should probably have made an offer ("I'll give you £xxx for it) as I wasn't actively trying to sell, whereas he was a trying to buy it. I had to spend a fair bit of time trying to come up with a realistic price, which he then said was more than he wanted to pay. Tbh if he'd offered what he was willing to pay in the first place I might have said yes, but by the time id done all the research I had more knowledge and therefore was in a better position.
In my mind, I think he should probably have made an offer ("I'll give you £xxx for it) as I wasn't actively trying to sell, whereas he was a trying to buy it. I had to spend a fair bit of time trying to come up with a realistic price, which he then said was more than he wanted to pay. Tbh if he'd offered what he was willing to pay in the first place I might have said yes, but by the time id done all the research I had more knowledge and therefore was in a better position.
So car adverts get ‘what’s your best price?’.
Now we’re getting ‘offers’ on sale ads.
I would love to be a fly on the wall for a negotiation between these two groups:
Advert: offerz
Buyer: what’s yr best price for cash?
Repeat ad infinitum
It’s not a new way to buy/sell, it’s an idiotic way to act. I refuse to deal with either group.
Now we’re getting ‘offers’ on sale ads.
I would love to be a fly on the wall for a negotiation between these two groups:
Advert: offerz
Buyer: what’s yr best price for cash?
Repeat ad infinitum
It’s not a new way to buy/sell, it’s an idiotic way to act. I refuse to deal with either group.
Edited by Vimes on Tuesday 15th December 21:17
But don’t forget, most of these vehicles offered for sale are rare one-offs, with exclusive custom options and they just need a re-gas and the front bumper painting to be “mint”. We’re lucky to be offered the opportunity to show interest, really, before the tarpaulin gets thrown back over it.
I don't agree with the OP's suggestion that 'the vast bulk of car stuff is bought and sold' is on FB. Mostly kite flyers and chancers in my experience, or with the misguided idea they are selling parts helpfully to some sort of 'community.'
There are thousands more vehicles and spare parts for sale on Autotrader or ebay than on FB.
There are thousands more vehicles and spare parts for sale on Autotrader or ebay than on FB.
sixor8 said:
I don't agree with the OP's suggestion that 'the vast bulk of car stuff is bought and sold' is on FB. Mostly kite flyers and chancers in my experience, or with the misguided idea they are selling parts helpfully to some sort of 'community.'
There are thousands more vehicles and spare parts for sale on Autotrader or ebay than on FB.
Of course if you look at the total market then FB is only a tiny fraction. I am referring to enthusiast products specifically. I have no data to back it up, but I reckon when it comes to enthusiast cars and parts FB definitely comprises a sizeable chunk of the market. I generally list stuff on both FB and eBay and it tends to sell better on FB. Most breakers now do business exclusively there. There are thousands more vehicles and spare parts for sale on Autotrader or ebay than on FB.
My observations are based on spending a considerable amount of time in many different marque-specific groups and talking to other enthusiast friends. I'm 50 next year and most of my friends are of a similar vintage. TBH I believe the PH community to be less representative of the market than FB is.
I totally understand the disdain that many people here have for the platform, but if you're willing to deal with the noise there is value to be had there. Some of the private marque-specific groups are really quite good and have replaced the old bulletin-boards which have died or are dying as a result. The Caterham Facebook groups for example are nonsense-free and full of sensible people and advice.
Vehicle parts maybe, but I've read several issue about people buying things on FB, often small value items, and the goods never arrived.
Whether a scam by design, or items genuinely lost, you have no recourse. Selling through FB is obviously free but buying has its risks. At least through ebay, false sales or non-delivery generate a refund.
Some car marque groups are public, which is good visibility for sales, but most are private.
I forgot to mention car sales on PH too (!) although my last 2 car sales were ebay and a classic auction, the PH classifieds didn't generate a single enquiry.
Whether a scam by design, or items genuinely lost, you have no recourse. Selling through FB is obviously free but buying has its risks. At least through ebay, false sales or non-delivery generate a refund.
Some car marque groups are public, which is good visibility for sales, but most are private.
I forgot to mention car sales on PH too (!) although my last 2 car sales were ebay and a classic auction, the PH classifieds didn't generate a single enquiry.
I think with 'offers' it's a bit unclear what the sale process will be. Will the seller wait for a week and then sell to the highest bidder? Sell to the first offer he likes? Agree to sell to one person and then change his mind when he gets a higher offer a day later?
This lack of clarity seems undesirable all round to me, and likely to lead to frustration and upset. I'd say that sellers should either (a) advertise a price, or (b) run a proper auction with a clearly communicated timeline. That way all parties know where they stand.
On selling cars generally, I've just sold my 350Z via PH. Ad went up last Wed, buyer got in touch that evening, arranged RAC inspection, sale agreed within 5 days. I had one other genuine-seeming buyer interested who I had to disappoint. So not tonnes and tonnes of enquiries, but enough to get the sale done and honestly good value at £20 for up to 30 days.
sixor8 said:
Vehicle parts maybe, but I've read several issue about people buying things on FB, often small value items, and the goods never arrived.
Whether a scam by design, or items genuinely lost, you have no recourse. Selling through FB is obviously free but buying has its risks. At least through ebay, false sales or non-delivery generate a refund.
Some car marque groups are public, which is good visibility for sales, but most are private.
I forgot to mention car sales on PH too (!) although my last 2 car sales were ebay and a classic auction, the PH classifieds didn't generate a single enquiry.
How does it have risks, if you pay via Paypal?Whether a scam by design, or items genuinely lost, you have no recourse. Selling through FB is obviously free but buying has its risks. At least through ebay, false sales or non-delivery generate a refund.
Some car marque groups are public, which is good visibility for sales, but most are private.
I forgot to mention car sales on PH too (!) although my last 2 car sales were ebay and a classic auction, the PH classifieds didn't generate a single enquiry.
I recently sold a vehicle on facebook but instead of offers or a fixed price it was message for price.
Reason for it was to discourage people from offering 5p, discourage people from saying "yeah I will take it" and then ghosting me in the typical timewaster fashion.
Anyone who was genuinely interested had to engage with me and when I told them the price I wanted I could quickly tell who was still interested and who wasn't.
Reason for it was to discourage people from offering 5p, discourage people from saying "yeah I will take it" and then ghosting me in the typical timewaster fashion.
Anyone who was genuinely interested had to engage with me and when I told them the price I wanted I could quickly tell who was still interested and who wasn't.
MK1RS Bruce said:
I recently sold a vehicle on facebook but instead of offers or a fixed price it was message for price.
Reason for it was to discourage people from offering 5p, discourage people from saying "yeah I will take it" and then ghosting me in the typical timewaster fashion.
Anyone who was genuinely interested had to engage with me and when I told them the price I wanted I could quickly tell who was still interested and who wasn't.
Put the bloody price up on the advert man !!!!!Reason for it was to discourage people from offering 5p, discourage people from saying "yeah I will take it" and then ghosting me in the typical timewaster fashion.
Anyone who was genuinely interested had to engage with me and when I told them the price I wanted I could quickly tell who was still interested and who wasn't.
You are ironically wasting more of your own time having to reply to each message than just to ignore those messages of time wasters!
MK1RS Bruce said:
I recently sold a vehicle on facebook but instead of offers or a fixed price it was message for price.
Reason for it was to discourage people from offering 5p, discourage people from saying "yeah I will take it" and then ghosting me in the typical timewaster fashion.
Anyone who was genuinely interested had to engage with me and when I told them the price I wanted I could quickly tell who was still interested and who wasn't.
As a buyer, my interest is to efficiently scan all the items I'm interested in to immediately know the price, condition and spec. I can then pick the one(s) that appear best to me, to investigate further.Reason for it was to discourage people from offering 5p, discourage people from saying "yeah I will take it" and then ghosting me in the typical timewaster fashion.
Anyone who was genuinely interested had to engage with me and when I told them the price I wanted I could quickly tell who was still interested and who wasn't.
If I have to write a message and wait for a reply to even get that basic information, I very likely shan't bother unless it's a rare and special item. Life's too short to waste messing with sellers who hide behind "£POA".
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