Volvo XC90 T8 or Lexus RXL 450h or.... ?
Discussion
Happy New Year all! 
All change in the BB household in 2021, including end of lease on the Disco Sport (generally very pleased with it) and a major house move from SE to NW England and probably more annual miles as a result - say 12k to 15k miles pa.
So, looking for opinions and experience with either of the above please, especially from owners or those who have considered them and bought something else and NOT regarding the looks of them - I know the Lexus is very “Marmite” but I’m generally ok with it in the metal (some pics definitely make it look a bit odd). The Volvo is more conventionally good-looking.
Alternatively, although I think I’ve considered most other options, I would welcome alternatives but complying with the following requirements:
1. We have 3 large and growing teenage boys (and a dog) so must be suitable size
2. A big boot for everything else, preferably with +2 seats for occasional use.
3. Trying to avoid (non-hybrid) Diesel engines.
4. Budget up to c£35k.
5. No older than 2016 / 40k miles
Would consider another Disco Sport - we tried the Disco, RRS etc and found the centre, middle row seat too small in those: surprisingly, the Disco Sport was roomiest for 3 (that was in 2018) and there was general resistance to travelling in the third row over any distance in any car. The Disco Sport is also quite a handy size for narrower lanes etc although the boot is not massive and is negligible when the third row seats are in use.
I like the Merc GLE but the hybrid version loses too much boot space, maybe the AMG43?
Over to you...
All change in the BB household in 2021, including end of lease on the Disco Sport (generally very pleased with it) and a major house move from SE to NW England and probably more annual miles as a result - say 12k to 15k miles pa.
So, looking for opinions and experience with either of the above please, especially from owners or those who have considered them and bought something else and NOT regarding the looks of them - I know the Lexus is very “Marmite” but I’m generally ok with it in the metal (some pics definitely make it look a bit odd). The Volvo is more conventionally good-looking.
Alternatively, although I think I’ve considered most other options, I would welcome alternatives but complying with the following requirements:
1. We have 3 large and growing teenage boys (and a dog) so must be suitable size
2. A big boot for everything else, preferably with +2 seats for occasional use.
3. Trying to avoid (non-hybrid) Diesel engines.
4. Budget up to c£35k.
5. No older than 2016 / 40k miles
Would consider another Disco Sport - we tried the Disco, RRS etc and found the centre, middle row seat too small in those: surprisingly, the Disco Sport was roomiest for 3 (that was in 2018) and there was general resistance to travelling in the third row over any distance in any car. The Disco Sport is also quite a handy size for narrower lanes etc although the boot is not massive and is negligible when the third row seats are in use.
I like the Merc GLE but the hybrid version loses too much boot space, maybe the AMG43?
Over to you...
We looked at a few 2-3 year old xc90s last month and decided not to go for one for a few reasons. Interior quality is very poor and they seem to wear extremely quickly, one of the ones I viewed as approved used with around 100k kms looked utterly shagged inside with baggy leather and worn armrests etc.
Everything goes via the touchscreen. I mean no physical buttons whatsoever.
To drive it was nice. More of a nice place to travel than a nice drive.
Both the 4 cylinder t6 petrol and the diesel sound a bit out of keeping with the car. Especially a luxury suv. The t8 may negate this to some extent with the electric motors.
They do look very nice though especially in JRG with a light interior.
My experience with Lexus however has been excellent and think my money would be on the Lexus over the Volvo.
Tiff needell did a very good comparison of both somewhere on youtube.
Everything goes via the touchscreen. I mean no physical buttons whatsoever.
To drive it was nice. More of a nice place to travel than a nice drive.
Both the 4 cylinder t6 petrol and the diesel sound a bit out of keeping with the car. Especially a luxury suv. The t8 may negate this to some extent with the electric motors.
They do look very nice though especially in JRG with a light interior.
My experience with Lexus however has been excellent and think my money would be on the Lexus over the Volvo.
Tiff needell did a very good comparison of both somewhere on youtube.
If you want a petrol hybrid then the RXL is the pick, the XC90 is a good car but Volvo's interiors seem to show wear more.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012117...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012207...
Is the Cayenne big enough:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012177...
X5e
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012197...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012076...
Other options if you're doing more miles then the diesel hybrids give you the best of both worlds:
Diesel Hybrid Q7 E Tron
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202008172...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202009073...
They don't come up often but the RR DH is a great option:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012026...
XC90 DH
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012026...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012117...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012207...
Is the Cayenne big enough:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012177...
X5e
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012197...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012076...
Other options if you're doing more miles then the diesel hybrids give you the best of both worlds:
Diesel Hybrid Q7 E Tron
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202008172...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202009073...
They don't come up often but the RR DH is a great option:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012026...
XC90 DH
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012026...
Thanks CDB. Also had a look at the video and some other reviews that came up - seems that the XC mostly comes out on top for space etc and the CVT on the RX seems generally disliked. I expect most of our driving to be rural which also seems to play more to the XC’s strengths whereas the RX may be more suited to urban use. What is JRG? Resale gray?
@ZX Thanks - very useful and some good suggestions there, particularly the Q7 dh. We had a new shape Q7 when they came out in 2015 and Mrs BB loved it. Again, the centre 2nd row seat was a bit narrow - WHY doesn’t anyone make 3 full-size middle row seats SUV? (By the way, we definitely don’t want an MPV - have had Galaxys and Voyagers etc and not going back there).
Will go back to the classifieds for Q7s. Cayenne boot is a bit too small. RR dh is worth a look too, if any available, just might be a bit wide? Will also have a look at the X5e although I usually find the ride in BMWs too hard but they may be better in more recent models(?).
@ZX Thanks - very useful and some good suggestions there, particularly the Q7 dh. We had a new shape Q7 when they came out in 2015 and Mrs BB loved it. Again, the centre 2nd row seat was a bit narrow - WHY doesn’t anyone make 3 full-size middle row seats SUV? (By the way, we definitely don’t want an MPV - have had Galaxys and Voyagers etc and not going back there).
Will go back to the classifieds for Q7s. Cayenne boot is a bit too small. RR dh is worth a look too, if any available, just might be a bit wide? Will also have a look at the X5e although I usually find the ride in BMWs too hard but they may be better in more recent models(?).
BreakingBad said:
Thanks CDB. Also had a look at the video and some other reviews that came up - seems that the XC mostly comes out on top for space etc and the CVT on the RX seems generally disliked. I expect most of our driving to be rural which also seems to play more to the XC’s strengths whereas the RX may be more suited to urban use. What is JRG? Resale gray?
It’s that gold colour they come in. Looks absolutely fabulous on a sunny day.If you need to carry a decent amount of stuff I wouldn’t go for a cayenne, we have the previous model 958 along side a mk1 xc90 (the one we are looking to replace)and the cayennes boot although a decent size is a ridiculous shape especially when it comes to carrying things. Couldn’t get my desk in the Porsche yet the Volvo swallowed it without issue. To drive however they cayenne is utterly brilliant.
Have you looked at landcruisers? I think that’s probably what we will replace our xc90 with for reliability, dealer network, longevity and the fact they really seem to hold their value well. Fuel economy won’t be great however we both wfh in any case. I do think they latest xc90 is stunning however assuming servicing at a dealer the servicing costs aren’t really any less than for our cayenne.
@JB. Ah yes. Had forgotten about those. We did look at the Citroen DS version (7?) a while ago and it had a lot to recommend it - plus I’ve had lots of Citroen’s in the past (AX BX and CX) - but I’m afraid I wouldn’t want to put £30,000 odd of my own hard-earned into a car that depreciates so much, so quickly.
@CDB. Ok, thanks - not sure I’ve seen any in that colour but I do like some of the interior choices that Volvo offer. It’s a shame that lots of people think they don’t last well. Maybe pick up a good one and buy a decent set of seat covers?
Agree re the Cayenne. That sloping rear looks nice but cuts down the practicality somewhat. Maybe they should do a Turismo version?
Coincidentally had a look at the Land Cruiser earlier and maybe being unfair but it has a very old school Diesel engine and it looks like a dinosaur next to others (although it would probably still be running in another 50 years
).
Have also had a look at the Q7 etron and may look into that further. Seems you lose the option of the 3rd row seats due to the battery pack but not necessarily a dealbreaker.
The X5 centre seat appears to be too small.
Not sure about the RR’s centre seat so will have a closer look but why are there so few of the dh versions about?
@CDB. Ok, thanks - not sure I’ve seen any in that colour but I do like some of the interior choices that Volvo offer. It’s a shame that lots of people think they don’t last well. Maybe pick up a good one and buy a decent set of seat covers?
Agree re the Cayenne. That sloping rear looks nice but cuts down the practicality somewhat. Maybe they should do a Turismo version?
Coincidentally had a look at the Land Cruiser earlier and maybe being unfair but it has a very old school Diesel engine and it looks like a dinosaur next to others (although it would probably still be running in another 50 years
).Have also had a look at the Q7 etron and may look into that further. Seems you lose the option of the 3rd row seats due to the battery pack but not necessarily a dealbreaker.
The X5 centre seat appears to be too small.
Not sure about the RR’s centre seat so will have a closer look but why are there so few of the dh versions about?
CDB1983 said:
My experience with Lexus however has been excellent and think my money would be on the Lexus over the Volvo.
Same here.Another factor to consider is that the Lexus will be totally bulletproof, it will go on forever and likely never let you down.
Regarding the "CVT" in the Lexus - in my experience it's not an issue in the RX/RXL, because the engine is a V6 with plenty of performance, so you never end up really thrashing it in the way that you might in (say) a Prius.
I would go for the RXL every time.
I had an RX450h Premier (2017) for just over 10k miles. Incredibly refined, a lovely way to travel, excellent build quality and very good customer service.
I changed it for another Lexus as I liked the brand but couldn't live with the CVT gearbox. It's very good when you're just cruising around and very impressive technology; the car actually makes you want to relax and go with the flow.
Unfortunately for me I am often impatient and didn't like the way revs were held high when accelerating hard - I like a linear relationship between revs and speed in any given gear. Another point I noticed was that the RX would understeer easily on wet roads. I'm sure many will say - and I would agree! - that my driving style didn't suit the vehicle.
It therefore depends a lot on your manner of driving. If you like to 'press on' fairly regularly the Lexus gearbox might annoy; for anything else it is an excellent piece of kit.
I changed it for another Lexus as I liked the brand but couldn't live with the CVT gearbox. It's very good when you're just cruising around and very impressive technology; the car actually makes you want to relax and go with the flow.
Unfortunately for me I am often impatient and didn't like the way revs were held high when accelerating hard - I like a linear relationship between revs and speed in any given gear. Another point I noticed was that the RX would understeer easily on wet roads. I'm sure many will say - and I would agree! - that my driving style didn't suit the vehicle.
It therefore depends a lot on your manner of driving. If you like to 'press on' fairly regularly the Lexus gearbox might annoy; for anything else it is an excellent piece of kit.
Thanks for that BlueJ. That helps confirm my slight concerns about it. One of my pet hates is having some kind of interface between me and the mechanical bits, especially ones that think they know what I want better than I do!
James May recently wrote that he nearly had an accident when his Tesla auto-corrected his steering when pulling over to avoid an oncoming lorry. S*d that!
My concern extends to the Volvo and all the “safety / driver assist” crap that they insist on fitting which is not an acceptable alternative to good, old-fashioned “paying attention to your driving.” No doubt it does have its uses and has saved a few accidents but I can’t help feeling that people are likely to become lazy and reliant on the car to save them from not being fully aware. Maybe we are in a somewhat dangerous transitional period between old-fashioned / analog and forthcoming / automated automotive eras where there are gaps for the unwary to fall into.
Sorry, that turned into a bit of a rant didn’t it, but I still occasionally enjoy the driving bit of getting from A to B and although I don’t expect to be thrilled by the dynamics of a 2.5 tonne SUV, I really don’t want a white-goods-appliance experience either. It’s a shame really, because the basic recipe of a decent petrol V6 with electric assistance, Lexus’s reputation and the “innovative” styling should bring a winning result and it may for many people but I fear it misses the mark for many more, largely due to that CVT gearbox.
James May recently wrote that he nearly had an accident when his Tesla auto-corrected his steering when pulling over to avoid an oncoming lorry. S*d that!
My concern extends to the Volvo and all the “safety / driver assist” crap that they insist on fitting which is not an acceptable alternative to good, old-fashioned “paying attention to your driving.” No doubt it does have its uses and has saved a few accidents but I can’t help feeling that people are likely to become lazy and reliant on the car to save them from not being fully aware. Maybe we are in a somewhat dangerous transitional period between old-fashioned / analog and forthcoming / automated automotive eras where there are gaps for the unwary to fall into.
Sorry, that turned into a bit of a rant didn’t it, but I still occasionally enjoy the driving bit of getting from A to B and although I don’t expect to be thrilled by the dynamics of a 2.5 tonne SUV, I really don’t want a white-goods-appliance experience either. It’s a shame really, because the basic recipe of a decent petrol V6 with electric assistance, Lexus’s reputation and the “innovative” styling should bring a winning result and it may for many people but I fear it misses the mark for many more, largely due to that CVT gearbox.
OP: I think the DS7 is lovely and might not be the depreciation terror that you envisage. For 25-30k you can get something much newer vs Lexus etc. If you spend 35k on anything it will shed £££ if you are using it regularly. A 4-5 year old car could be on the brink of throwing up some big bills too. The DS would still have a couple of years warranty on it.
Oh yeah, don’t get the Volvo if you don’t like nanny state electronics...
Ours frequently buzzes at you about lanes, throws the occasional fit during spirited response driving (not sure what the ‘impending crash’ algorithm is but it’s a bit random) and flat out refuses to TPAC cars
The love hugs you get when going over big humps are lovely though!
Ours frequently buzzes at you about lanes, throws the occasional fit during spirited response driving (not sure what the ‘impending crash’ algorithm is but it’s a bit random) and flat out refuses to TPAC cars
The love hugs you get when going over big humps are lovely though!
Fair point, Jag and maybe I need to cast the net a bit wider but I’m still not convinced that Peugeot or Citroen offer what I’m looking for.
Where we're moving to is pretty rural and hilly so I’m inclined to go for something 4wd, aside from any other reservations. I know winter tyres can make most cars usable in poor conditions but there are many advantages and few disadvantages to 4wd these days so....
Where we're moving to is pretty rural and hilly so I’m inclined to go for something 4wd, aside from any other reservations. I know winter tyres can make most cars usable in poor conditions but there are many advantages and few disadvantages to 4wd these days so....
Edited by BreakingBad on Saturday 2nd January 17:50
@carreau - seriously? Can it be switched off / down at all?
I know on my Golf R - a few years ago - that insurance was very reasonable as it had collision avoidance but the damned thing applied the brakes when a leaf or something blew across the sensor - PITA! No off button....
Don’t miss that car either!
I know on my Golf R - a few years ago - that insurance was very reasonable as it had collision avoidance but the damned thing applied the brakes when a leaf or something blew across the sensor - PITA! No off button....
Don’t miss that car either!BreakingBad said:
@carreau - seriously? Can it be switched off / down at all?
I know on my Golf R - a few years ago - that insurance was very reasonable as it had collision avoidance but the damned thing applied the brakes when a leaf or something blew across the sensor - PITA! No off button.... Don’t miss that car either!
It’s possible to turn it down but not off. To be fair I’ve never seen it do the ‘slam on if you brush vegetation’ thing. And the situations it gets antsy about are generally when you’re cutting through traffic, not day to day driving. But yeah, it would put me off it!I know on my Golf R - a few years ago - that insurance was very reasonable as it had collision avoidance but the damned thing applied the brakes when a leaf or something blew across the sensor - PITA! No off button....
Don’t miss that car either!BlueJ said:
I had an RX450h Premier (2017) for just over 10k miles. Incredibly refined, a lovely way to travel, excellent build quality and very good customer service.
I changed it for another Lexus as I liked the brand but couldn't live with the CVT gearbox. It's very good when you're just cruising around and very impressive technology; the car actually makes you want to relax and go with the flow.
Unfortunately for me I am often impatient and didn't like the way revs were held high when accelerating hard - I like a linear relationship between revs and speed in any given gear. Another point I noticed was that the RX would understeer easily on wet roads. I'm sure many will say - and I would agree! - that my driving style didn't suit the vehicle.
It therefore depends a lot on your manner of driving. If you like to 'press on' fairly regularly the Lexus gearbox might annoy; for anything else it is an excellent piece of kit.
Out of interest, what did you change the RX450h for? Aren't all Lexus cars fitted with a CVT gearbox?I changed it for another Lexus as I liked the brand but couldn't live with the CVT gearbox. It's very good when you're just cruising around and very impressive technology; the car actually makes you want to relax and go with the flow.
Unfortunately for me I am often impatient and didn't like the way revs were held high when accelerating hard - I like a linear relationship between revs and speed in any given gear. Another point I noticed was that the RX would understeer easily on wet roads. I'm sure many will say - and I would agree! - that my driving style didn't suit the vehicle.
It therefore depends a lot on your manner of driving. If you like to 'press on' fairly regularly the Lexus gearbox might annoy; for anything else it is an excellent piece of kit.
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