Fast family cars - Hidden gems / cars with potential
Discussion
Hi all, happy new year.
I'm day-dreaming ahead about my next car move, but I'm really struggling to find anything that ticks all the boxes.
Current car: Audi S4 (59 reg B8 model)
Pro's: Had the car 5 years now, its been superb - I love the AWD traction, it's pretty quick, been extremely reliable, ok MPG, very practical for my 2 yound kids - the B&O stereo is immense, sports seats are comfy (as is the car in general) - not worth alot now but its been a great car.
Con's - feels a little dated now, not the best looking of cars.
What I'm looking for:
- Must be 5 cylinder+ engine, I hate 4 pots and haven't owned one since I was 23 (now 39) - sound is very important to me so I'd like something with a bit more theatre/sound next (the current v6 is ok but I fancy a v8).
- Reasonably comfy/practical, would maybe consider a 2-3 door now at a push as the kids are coming up 3 and 5.
- MPG 20+ is fine, I do very little mileage
- Nice exterior and interior, good stereo
- early 20k or so price range
- Something a bit faster than the S4, so prob 400bhp+
- Nothing with insane running costs or lots of common problems
I've looked and looked but wonder if I've missed anything, or if there is a car which could be tuned to be quick. I know I'm asking alot here! I did think of an S5 black edition and stage 2 tune (470hp) as it would stand me around £17k, is a bit better looking, faster but still same interior etc.
Here is the long list of current considerations!
- RS5/Rs4, nice engine sound/character (if older in design) - not so good MPG though and same interior plus not 4 door. Driven once back to back with a mapped s4 and didn't feel it was worth the extra (at the time)
- CL63, I like the shape, good power, rear seats seem ok too - but its a big car so maybe too barge-like, also hasn't really changed much since 07 it seems (facelift actually looks worse from the rear).
- Panamera, prob the 4.8 models, never been near one so unsure what these are like, look quite large and interior might be dated as again its from the same era. Probably a good drive though
- CLS63, nice shape but big car, prob showing its age a little though, but seem alot of car for the money. Interior looks a little dated.
- CLS400, updated interior but prob too slow as heavy car
- CLS500, mega rare and not available since the facelift (2015)
- M3, v8 one is too old/dated and no quicker than a mapped s4. the newer ones out of budet but oddly I just don't love the looks (exterior or interior), but the fact you can get manuals is appealing. m4 better looking, but then I might as well get the m3 for the 4 door practical as same price.
- S5 (2017) - more modern in general, but not any faster, no remaps either yet and oddly I cant help thinking it looks like the last mondeo!
- RS3 - I really like the shape of the saloon but they are still 35k+, the hatch is 25k or so but seems alot for a 'less' grown up looking car, interior also not that great IMO (have sat in one). Engine prob tunable but is a 5ycl a step down? Had one years ago in my 20vt Fiat coupe and it did sound nice.
- C43 - I do like the c class looks alot, nice inside too, seems to have some character to the engine and AWD too - but I had a blat recently with one and it was no quick than my S4. Also the C63 is barely any more money
- C63, ticks everything for me except budget and RWD only - into 30k for one as I'd want the bucket seats, the standard ones really let the car down IMO , I do like the look sportier seats give a car.
- E55, amazing engine, but not the best looks and interior is same generation as my S4 so wouldn't feel any newer I imagine.
- m5 (f10), monsters, maybe a bit dated now, but seem very fast, however seem a few examples where the engine just died after 60k or so, big bills could be common.
- m6 grand coupe, better looking than m5 inside and out, but again a big big car.
- S7, V8 twin turbo is appealing, but heavy & big cars. Interior is ok and a step up slightly, AWD is nice, just might be too barge-like. Prob reliable though.
- E400 coupe, lovely looking, interior looks awesome, but out of budget and into C63 money, plus prob a bit too slow (and the e43 is more money).
- Jags I just cannot love, they just don't do anything for me sorry, Bmw 340i doesnt seem fast enough (the new m340 is but they are out of budget), also not a huge fan of BMW interiors. the 650i coupe looks nice, but I've heard horror stories of those engines. s8/s-class too big for me, I really want something small with a huge engine.
Sorry for such a long post!
I'm day-dreaming ahead about my next car move, but I'm really struggling to find anything that ticks all the boxes.
Current car: Audi S4 (59 reg B8 model)
Pro's: Had the car 5 years now, its been superb - I love the AWD traction, it's pretty quick, been extremely reliable, ok MPG, very practical for my 2 yound kids - the B&O stereo is immense, sports seats are comfy (as is the car in general) - not worth alot now but its been a great car.
Con's - feels a little dated now, not the best looking of cars.
What I'm looking for:
- Must be 5 cylinder+ engine, I hate 4 pots and haven't owned one since I was 23 (now 39) - sound is very important to me so I'd like something with a bit more theatre/sound next (the current v6 is ok but I fancy a v8).
- Reasonably comfy/practical, would maybe consider a 2-3 door now at a push as the kids are coming up 3 and 5.
- MPG 20+ is fine, I do very little mileage
- Nice exterior and interior, good stereo
- early 20k or so price range
- Something a bit faster than the S4, so prob 400bhp+
- Nothing with insane running costs or lots of common problems
I've looked and looked but wonder if I've missed anything, or if there is a car which could be tuned to be quick. I know I'm asking alot here! I did think of an S5 black edition and stage 2 tune (470hp) as it would stand me around £17k, is a bit better looking, faster but still same interior etc.
Here is the long list of current considerations!
- RS5/Rs4, nice engine sound/character (if older in design) - not so good MPG though and same interior plus not 4 door. Driven once back to back with a mapped s4 and didn't feel it was worth the extra (at the time)
- CL63, I like the shape, good power, rear seats seem ok too - but its a big car so maybe too barge-like, also hasn't really changed much since 07 it seems (facelift actually looks worse from the rear).
- Panamera, prob the 4.8 models, never been near one so unsure what these are like, look quite large and interior might be dated as again its from the same era. Probably a good drive though
- CLS63, nice shape but big car, prob showing its age a little though, but seem alot of car for the money. Interior looks a little dated.
- CLS400, updated interior but prob too slow as heavy car
- CLS500, mega rare and not available since the facelift (2015)
- M3, v8 one is too old/dated and no quicker than a mapped s4. the newer ones out of budet but oddly I just don't love the looks (exterior or interior), but the fact you can get manuals is appealing. m4 better looking, but then I might as well get the m3 for the 4 door practical as same price.
- S5 (2017) - more modern in general, but not any faster, no remaps either yet and oddly I cant help thinking it looks like the last mondeo!
- RS3 - I really like the shape of the saloon but they are still 35k+, the hatch is 25k or so but seems alot for a 'less' grown up looking car, interior also not that great IMO (have sat in one). Engine prob tunable but is a 5ycl a step down? Had one years ago in my 20vt Fiat coupe and it did sound nice.
- C43 - I do like the c class looks alot, nice inside too, seems to have some character to the engine and AWD too - but I had a blat recently with one and it was no quick than my S4. Also the C63 is barely any more money
- C63, ticks everything for me except budget and RWD only - into 30k for one as I'd want the bucket seats, the standard ones really let the car down IMO , I do like the look sportier seats give a car.
- E55, amazing engine, but not the best looks and interior is same generation as my S4 so wouldn't feel any newer I imagine.
- m5 (f10), monsters, maybe a bit dated now, but seem very fast, however seem a few examples where the engine just died after 60k or so, big bills could be common.
- m6 grand coupe, better looking than m5 inside and out, but again a big big car.
- S7, V8 twin turbo is appealing, but heavy & big cars. Interior is ok and a step up slightly, AWD is nice, just might be too barge-like. Prob reliable though.
- E400 coupe, lovely looking, interior looks awesome, but out of budget and into C63 money, plus prob a bit too slow (and the e43 is more money).
- Jags I just cannot love, they just don't do anything for me sorry, Bmw 340i doesnt seem fast enough (the new m340 is but they are out of budget), also not a huge fan of BMW interiors. the 650i coupe looks nice, but I've heard horror stories of those engines. s8/s-class too big for me, I really want something small with a huge engine.
Sorry for such a long post!
DoubleD said:
Keep the Audi and buy something fun like an Elise.
I did think that but then my garage is full, means 2 lots of tax, insurance and such. Plus I've always been of the mindset I'd rather have 1 car to enjoy 100% of the time. Elise is way to slow, I had one for an afternoon once and it was just not fast enough to justify how unpractical it was for me (6ft 3"), and the engine sounded lame. Drove an exige S round Spa for a day, now that was nice but big bucks now!I went from a B8 S4 (which was stolen) to a 2015 C63.
The S4 had the supersports seats which were nice but the C63 has the standard seats which dont look as good as the bucket ones but are more supportive than the Audi ones and are comfortable.
Performance is a step up due to the increased power and being rwd. Need to be more careful with throttle compared to the S4 due to traction.
Sound is much better. Running cost more expensive warranty is 1600 pa rather than 600 and parts more expensive.
Ride quality is worse.
But I love it
The S4 had the supersports seats which were nice but the C63 has the standard seats which dont look as good as the bucket ones but are more supportive than the Audi ones and are comfortable.
Performance is a step up due to the increased power and being rwd. Need to be more careful with throttle compared to the S4 due to traction.
Sound is much better. Running cost more expensive warranty is 1600 pa rather than 600 and parts more expensive.
Ride quality is worse.
But I love it
Fat hippo said:
I went from a B8 S4 (which was stolen) to a 2015 C63.
The S4 had the supersports seats which were nice but the C63 has the standard seats which dont look as good as the bucket ones but are more supportive than the Audi ones and are comfortable.
Performance is a step up due to the increased power and being rwd. Need to be more careful with throttle compared to the S4 due to traction.
Sound is much better. Running cost more expensive warranty is 1600 pa rather than 600 and parts more expensive.
Ride quality is worse.
But I love it
Ah this is very interesting that you've made that jump, the c63 really stands out - small ish car - big engine and plenty of theatre! Had any problems with it? The S4 had the supersports seats which were nice but the C63 has the standard seats which dont look as good as the bucket ones but are more supportive than the Audi ones and are comfortable.
Performance is a step up due to the increased power and being rwd. Need to be more careful with throttle compared to the S4 due to traction.
Sound is much better. Running cost more expensive warranty is 1600 pa rather than 600 and parts more expensive.
Ride quality is worse.
But I love it
What's a set of discs and pads on one for example? Interior must feel nicer, and the tech is better too?
Did you look at/consider/test any other cars before making that change? I'm very interested in anything you have to say
randlemarcus said:
Panny interior is a great place to be, and they really shouldn't drive as well as they do. Gen 1 exterior is erm, polarising. 4.8 - try and get one where the coolant pipes have been done.
Thanks, do you have one? What are the running costs like? I don't mind the looks . 4.8 ok or just get the turbo? I'd LOVE a 911 turbo some day......such good cars.mrdanbartlett said:
Fat hippo said:
I went from a B8 S4 (which was stolen) to a 2015 C63.
The S4 had the supersports seats which were nice but the C63 has the standard seats which dont look as good as the bucket ones but are more supportive than the Audi ones and are comfortable.
Performance is a step up due to the increased power and being rwd. Need to be more careful with throttle compared to the S4 due to traction.
Sound is much better. Running cost more expensive warranty is 1600 pa rather than 600 and parts more expensive.
Ride quality is worse.
But I love it
Ah this is very interesting that you've made that jump, the c63 really stands out - small ish car - big engine and plenty of theatre! Had any problems with it? The S4 had the supersports seats which were nice but the C63 has the standard seats which dont look as good as the bucket ones but are more supportive than the Audi ones and are comfortable.
Performance is a step up due to the increased power and being rwd. Need to be more careful with throttle compared to the S4 due to traction.
Sound is much better. Running cost more expensive warranty is 1600 pa rather than 600 and parts more expensive.
Ride quality is worse.
But I love it
What's a set of discs and pads on one for example? Interior must feel nicer, and the tech is better too?
Did you look at/consider/test any other cars before making that change? I'm very interested in anything you have to say
I would have replaced it with another S4 but didnt want it to be stolen again - in fact, I would have replaced with an RS4 bit couldnt take the risk.
I did try an M5 but felt it was too big for the mrs and was nervous on the fragility of the engine.
The C63 was just entering my price range and it appealed being like a mini M5. I never had a V8 before and it really appealed. Went to the local dealer and they started one up in the showroom. The sound sold it for me. Brought my kids back the following week and asked them to start one up again. They loved it. Thats when I made my mind up.
Cost wise not too bad so far. Bought it 2 years ago from a Mercedes dealer so came with 2 years extended warranty. Ive renewed it on a monthly renewal basis which is approx 160 per month or I think 1600pa ish which is quite pricey but similar to an M car. Im paying around 40 per month for a 4 year service plan which I think is very reasonable.
The only consumable so far was the rear discs and pads which were just over £800 fitted at Mercedes Chelsea (my local dealer in Bromley wanted over £900).
What I would say is that the AMG/M parts/service is a tep up from an S Audi. I would imagine RS Audi might be the same.
I was keen not to get a BMW as I didnt like the attitude of their dealers when i used to have an M3. Every time going for a service I knew my wallet was going to get battered and I lost trust of some of them due to their pricing and damage to my engine after one visit where they dropped my car home with a misfire and not running on all cylinders and pretending it was fine.
As I’d not had a Mercedes before I thought Id try something different. I find Mercedes Chelsea to be good and I also found Audi dealers to be good.
As an aside, I have a Porsche 993 which I bought years ago after selling the M3. I bought it as I wanted an older car that I could maintain outside the dealer network and something that was simpler in nature with less to go wrong.
for the past 10 years i’ved ended up servicing it in the dealer network and found the dealers to be good as well (apart from one although they were very fair on their cock up). But ultimately, Im finding it cheaper servicing and parts for the 993 than the C63. Thats the AMG/M/RS tax that others refer to on here.
Just remember that although an M3/RS4/C63 might have similar or better performance than a 911, they are much heavier and therefore more powerful and the engines more complicated hence the increased bork factor and running costs.
Despite the above, i’m really loving the C63 and hoping to keep it long term as it has so much character. The power is a step up and the sound is something you dont get bored of. There is more of a sense of occasion than the S4.
Fuel economy has gone down from 26mpg in the S4 to around 19mpg in the C63 for the same types of journeys.
I’ve had to buy an old Audi A1 for the mrs for shorter journeys as she wasnt comfortable driving the C63 altough happy witht the S4. The cost of the A1 is probably recuperated from fuel/consumable savings on not using the C63 for mundane short journeys
mrdanbartlett said:
Also a C63 w204 could be an option, 'same gen' as the S4 but alot more drama, more power - not sure how good/bad the auto box is though and prob fairly thirsty.
C63's will see you get 18-20mpg around town & 24-26 mpg on a run but you won't worry about that once you own it, the auto box is fine some bemoan the fact that it's not a DSG but when you have a toque laden N/A V8 you're never far away from the power.Also it's performance is relevant even today against more modern rivals, especially if you remap it so you can get full throttle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUs48KitW6M
C63 AMG with the Performance Pack
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011216...
63
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011246...
The E400 is a good platform if you don't mind (remember this is the same engine that's in 43 models:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202010275...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012277...
If you want a performance saloon with running costs similar to your S4 then the VXR8 & ISF are the picks.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012237...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202009113...
mrdanbartlett said:
Thanks, do you have one? What are the running costs like? I don't mind the looks . 4.8 ok or just get the turbo? I'd LOVE a 911 turbo some day......such good cars.
I have a 10 plate Turbo. Running costs so far have been respectable. Consumption is thirsty, but not dreadful. Tyres and servicing are Porsche prices. I forgot to check brake disc thickness when I bought, so that was a pleasant surprise at the interim service. New discs, new pads, one new caliper. Coolant pipe failure was quite expensive, but some dealer goodwill. Two coil packs, not bad at all. . 4.8 ok or just get the turbo? I'd LOVE a 911 turbo some day......such good cars.Same as anything, buy well, it will reward you. Pressing the Sport Plus button turns it uncivilised
Some fantastic replies here, what a great bunch on this forum.
C63 is a fav but just a fair bit out of budget so might be best waiting given my current car is still ticking most boxes, just need some cream for the itch
I've heard RS prices are very high, the 'S' general seems to be ok.
Re E400 I meant the new shape, the old one I like but its same gen as my current car, I wanted a E coupe before getting the S4 as it happens.
VXR and ISX etc - nah, way too dated and I could just remap my S4 and it would be faster, more modern, better MPG, better inside, reliable, etc etc.
Anyone had an S7/S6?
C63 is a fav but just a fair bit out of budget so might be best waiting given my current car is still ticking most boxes, just need some cream for the itch
I've heard RS prices are very high, the 'S' general seems to be ok.
Re E400 I meant the new shape, the old one I like but its same gen as my current car, I wanted a E coupe before getting the S4 as it happens.
VXR and ISX etc - nah, way too dated and I could just remap my S4 and it would be faster, more modern, better MPG, better inside, reliable, etc etc.
Anyone had an S7/S6?
scoey1001 said:
You discounted the 340i as not been quick enough but with the MPPK people are recording 0-60 in 4.2 seconds.
Hmm, but a 340i is £20k, prob 2k for the kit and then you are only 3-4k of an m3, which residually makes for sense too.Not a fan of the 3 series exterior or interior though sorry.
17k does get you a W212 E63:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011266...
At 20k there's the VXR8 manual:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202010064...
0r M5:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011055...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202010084...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011266...
At 20k there's the VXR8 manual:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202010064...
0r M5:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202011055...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202010084...
mrdanbartlett said:
scoey1001 said:
You discounted the 340i as not been quick enough but with the MPPK people are recording 0-60 in 4.2 seconds.
Hmm, but a 340i is £20k, prob 2k for the kit and then you are only 3-4k of an m3, which residually makes for sense too.Not a fan of the 3 series exterior or interior though sorry.
You seem set on the Germans, but in case you aren't a Quattroporte might be an option, e.g. this one:
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/10830071
On one hand, one is pleased to read it has been meticulously maintained. On the other hand, one does wonder why it has had 8 owners.
But hey, it's a Maserati.
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/10830071
On one hand, one is pleased to read it has been meticulously maintained. On the other hand, one does wonder why it has had 8 owners.
But hey, it's a Maserati.
Fink-Nottle said:
You seem set on the Germans, but in case you aren't a Quattroporte might be an option, e.g. this one:
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/10830071
On one hand, one is pleased to read it has been meticulously maintained. On the other hand, one does wonder why it has had 8 owners.
But hey, it's a Maserati.
haha they look pretty cool and no doubt sound ace but the running costs scare me, someone I know bought a Masser off someone who had got so annoyed with it that he just threw it into a barn for years. He then sold it for sub £2k, just fed up of constant f figure bills - even when it seemed 'sorted again'.https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/10830071
On one hand, one is pleased to read it has been meticulously maintained. On the other hand, one does wonder why it has had 8 owners.
But hey, it's a Maserati.
I try and find cars with a low owner count as its often a good sign I think.
E55 is a beast, but again its the same generation as my S4 so wouldn't feel any newer, just more power. Also not so keen on the looks, prefer the C63 of that age.
Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff