S-Max petrol vs diesel
Discussion
Bear with me on this one, as my dilemma is a tad unusual.
I reached the sad point in my life where a MPV is unavoidable. 7 seats required and my budget doesn’t stretch to a swanky 4x4.
So if I have to have an MPV unless anyone can stick a curve ball in, the S-Max has been, and remains the class leader.
I’m not looking at the current sector, I’ve probably got a budget of ~£10k.
The whole diesel vs petrol debate is a funny one for me to figure out as I’m quite clued up on cars and engines, but I just can’t come to a conclusion on this one.
So, my annual mileage will be about 8k a year.... petrol right? But here’s the rub, 90% of that mileage will be made up of 100 mile trips. To get my kids I do 100 miles on a Friday, then 100 miles on Sunday to drop them home, it’s also predominantly motorway. Rinse and repeat every other weekend. During the week the car will so very little as I either wfh or walk to work. So although the mileage is low, the usage lends itself to a diesel.
In my budget I’m looking at any of the diesels (2.0, or 2.2 would be preferred), or the 1.6t petrol. I want a manual as the Powershift has worrying reliability reviews, so that rules out the 2.0t.
Surely the diesels will be better than a 1.6t petrol for slogging endlessly up and down a motorway and A34?
But then the petrol is more futureproof in terms of tax, etc etc.
If I’m honest I’m leaning towards the 2.2 197bhp diesel. I’ve always favoured a bigger engine with less stress, than a highly strung smaller engine. But the future being petrol does have a undeniable logic to it.
Gah! Thoughts?
I reached the sad point in my life where a MPV is unavoidable. 7 seats required and my budget doesn’t stretch to a swanky 4x4.
So if I have to have an MPV unless anyone can stick a curve ball in, the S-Max has been, and remains the class leader.
I’m not looking at the current sector, I’ve probably got a budget of ~£10k.
The whole diesel vs petrol debate is a funny one for me to figure out as I’m quite clued up on cars and engines, but I just can’t come to a conclusion on this one.
So, my annual mileage will be about 8k a year.... petrol right? But here’s the rub, 90% of that mileage will be made up of 100 mile trips. To get my kids I do 100 miles on a Friday, then 100 miles on Sunday to drop them home, it’s also predominantly motorway. Rinse and repeat every other weekend. During the week the car will so very little as I either wfh or walk to work. So although the mileage is low, the usage lends itself to a diesel.
In my budget I’m looking at any of the diesels (2.0, or 2.2 would be preferred), or the 1.6t petrol. I want a manual as the Powershift has worrying reliability reviews, so that rules out the 2.0t.
Surely the diesels will be better than a 1.6t petrol for slogging endlessly up and down a motorway and A34?
But then the petrol is more futureproof in terms of tax, etc etc.
If I’m honest I’m leaning towards the 2.2 197bhp diesel. I’ve always favoured a bigger engine with less stress, than a highly strung smaller engine. But the future being petrol does have a undeniable logic to it.
Gah! Thoughts?
Go with the 2.2 diesel, if you can go with the autobox (its a torque convertor not powershift) it won't set the world on fire but given the size of the S Max its going to be needed. I have the 2.2 in my 508 and its not fast but has reasonable mid range shove, it doesn't feel 320d quick mid range but i suspect it would be happy to cruise at 80 + all day.
MPG isn't great on mine, i'm averaging just under 30mpg but thats doing 6 miles a day. My old Mondeo 2.2 manual would see 40mpg on the same trip but is a different engine.
MPG isn't great on mine, i'm averaging just under 30mpg but thats doing 6 miles a day. My old Mondeo 2.2 manual would see 40mpg on the same trip but is a different engine.
As above the 2.2d is the pick for your usage:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202010275...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202101037...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202010275...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202101037...
I’ve got a 10 year old s max 2.0 tdi titanium ( we’ve had it 7 years in sep) it’s now on about 65K but it only has about 145-150bhp?, and as a result it’s not got masses of poke, but you can hustle along and will cruise comfortably at 90 (apparently). For holidays you can fit 3 kids (11,9, 3) and 2 adults in relative comfort with a week or three’s worth of crap no problem.. It’s been super reliable, serviced every other year, tax and insurance is <£500, so pretty cheap to run too. last service was expensive because it was a belt change (10yrs)
Before lock down I’d been commuting into Paddington most days ~70 miles each way, I used the Smax once (needed to pinch a chair from the office, shhhhh) and it was by far the most relaxing of all the drives home: no-one trying to race you, no incentive to try and create loads of noise through the Hatfield tunnel, or drive like a dick; I just whacked cruise on 75, and on one stretch didn’t touch the pedals for about 30 miles, it was lovely.
I fancy something like a Q7 but the missus wants another one when it comes time to replace it, which I’ll probably do this year if we are ever allowed out (it’s currently on a trickle charger). I always felt the 145hp was a bit under powered, not sure if I ever needed more tbh, but I’ll be aiming for 200ish on the replacement. We have averaged about 5k a year since we’ve had it, range is over 600miles with a full tank, so great for holidays. I’m also not 100% about whether to go petrol or diesel; the diesel is fine, but I worry about residuals, or tax increases due to emissions in a few years.. I think I’ll end up getting a diesel and moving it in on 5 or 6 years time..
I’m in 2 minds whether to keep the old one and use it as a van tbh ( space on drive permitting): with the rear 5 seats folded down I can easily throw a couple of large full sus mountain bikes in the back without needing to take the wheels off.. I got 3 small kids bikes in with just the rear 2 down so no faffing with a bike rack on the back.
No 10 year old ever had a poster of one on their bedroom wall, but they are really good at what they do.
Before lock down I’d been commuting into Paddington most days ~70 miles each way, I used the Smax once (needed to pinch a chair from the office, shhhhh) and it was by far the most relaxing of all the drives home: no-one trying to race you, no incentive to try and create loads of noise through the Hatfield tunnel, or drive like a dick; I just whacked cruise on 75, and on one stretch didn’t touch the pedals for about 30 miles, it was lovely.
I fancy something like a Q7 but the missus wants another one when it comes time to replace it, which I’ll probably do this year if we are ever allowed out (it’s currently on a trickle charger). I always felt the 145hp was a bit under powered, not sure if I ever needed more tbh, but I’ll be aiming for 200ish on the replacement. We have averaged about 5k a year since we’ve had it, range is over 600miles with a full tank, so great for holidays. I’m also not 100% about whether to go petrol or diesel; the diesel is fine, but I worry about residuals, or tax increases due to emissions in a few years.. I think I’ll end up getting a diesel and moving it in on 5 or 6 years time..
I’m in 2 minds whether to keep the old one and use it as a van tbh ( space on drive permitting): with the rear 5 seats folded down I can easily throw a couple of large full sus mountain bikes in the back without needing to take the wheels off.. I got 3 small kids bikes in with just the rear 2 down so no faffing with a bike rack on the back.
No 10 year old ever had a poster of one on their bedroom wall, but they are really good at what they do.
ChrisH72 said:
Maybe not what you're after but if you want a manual, petrol s-max is it worth spending half your budget on an older 2.5 titanium with the 5 pot engine?
You'd be paying more tax and more on fuel but then your mileage isn't huge and you would save on the purchase price.
I had toyed with that idea, but the fuel economy is tragic, even with my low miles it’s hard to justify. I’m led to believe it might *just* break 30mpg on a run and likely do a combined 25mpg. I’m not sure I could stomach that kind of mpg in car that’s not fun... You'd be paying more tax and more on fuel but then your mileage isn't huge and you would save on the purchase price.
ChrisH72 said:
Also there's the E class estate that has 7 seats to. E350 maybe?
I’ve currently got a V70 7 seat, and that’s the issue. The kids now don’t like going backwards (don’t blame them) and all cars with the rear facing seats (E class, V70 and A6) are getting a bit long in the tooth now. MDUBZ said:
Really useful stuff
Thanks for that, really helpful. Kinda confirms that the S-Max is the right choice. Also interesting to note that you feel a bit more power would be preferable as the 1.6t petrol is 160bhp, and will also lack the torque that diesel provides. Thankfully I don’t live in London, and never drive there so for now in the Home Counties I won’t have to worry too much about LEZ and all that stuff. I suppose it’s only a matter of time, and petrol would probably be the sensible long term choice. But diesel seems the more rounded choice at the moment.
Mk1 XC90 2.4 D5 - I've got two at the moment. Very comfortable and one of the safest ways to transport your family.
2006 to 2008 the tax is high, so buy one either side. Before 2006 it will probably be a 163bhp model - slow to get going but they don't have any emissions crap to worry about and once on the motorway they are happy cruising at v-max+. After 2008 it will probably be a 200bhp version - much quicker to get moving and with the journeys you are doing it should not trouble any diesel emissions systems. The 163bhp models tend to be a bit more economical - on a long run my 2003 163 get well over 30mpg and the 2012 R-design a few mpg less than that.
The standard sound systems are awesome, but only the later models get bluetooth etc and the sat nav is pants. Get an r-design or an SE Lux and you get nicer leather, and make sure you get one with a winter pack unless you like having a cold arse in winter.
My bro had a diesel S-max and then went to an XC90 and much prefered it. You feel indestructible in an XC90 - people complain it has no steering feeling, but that isn't really something you need in family battle wagon.
2006 to 2008 the tax is high, so buy one either side. Before 2006 it will probably be a 163bhp model - slow to get going but they don't have any emissions crap to worry about and once on the motorway they are happy cruising at v-max+. After 2008 it will probably be a 200bhp version - much quicker to get moving and with the journeys you are doing it should not trouble any diesel emissions systems. The 163bhp models tend to be a bit more economical - on a long run my 2003 163 get well over 30mpg and the 2012 R-design a few mpg less than that.
The standard sound systems are awesome, but only the later models get bluetooth etc and the sat nav is pants. Get an r-design or an SE Lux and you get nicer leather, and make sure you get one with a winter pack unless you like having a cold arse in winter.
My bro had a diesel S-max and then went to an XC90 and much prefered it. You feel indestructible in an XC90 - people complain it has no steering feeling, but that isn't really something you need in family battle wagon.
Ford diesels sound like the answer. Especially if you're doing 100 mile runs.
Only 4 weeks ago we were in your predicament, need a 7 seater. Wanted SMax. But don't do the miles and the majority are diesel, added to the fact they're still priced strongly.
My old man has a 2011 Galaxy 2.0 Tdci, 286k miles on original engine and turbo, so if maintained will give the mileage.
Now, we went for a Citroën C4 Grand Picasso, residuals didn't drive our decision, just a bloody good practical family friendly car and low road tax / running costs.
Initially I was totally against a C4, but watching YouTube vids (that's how you buy a car during Covid, right?) Grand C4 are well reviewed as long as you acknowledge its not a drivers car.
If it's a drivers car, SMax is the answer. if you want roomy practicality and lots of kit/spec for your money - French do that.
FYI, ours 1.2 Puretech petrol 130. £30 tax!
Only 4 weeks ago we were in your predicament, need a 7 seater. Wanted SMax. But don't do the miles and the majority are diesel, added to the fact they're still priced strongly.
My old man has a 2011 Galaxy 2.0 Tdci, 286k miles on original engine and turbo, so if maintained will give the mileage.
Now, we went for a Citroën C4 Grand Picasso, residuals didn't drive our decision, just a bloody good practical family friendly car and low road tax / running costs.
Initially I was totally against a C4, but watching YouTube vids (that's how you buy a car during Covid, right?) Grand C4 are well reviewed as long as you acknowledge its not a drivers car.
If it's a drivers car, SMax is the answer. if you want roomy practicality and lots of kit/spec for your money - French do that.
FYI, ours 1.2 Puretech petrol 130. £30 tax!
Thanks for the posts.
I should have mentioned, I’ve had an XC90 in the past. I bloody loved that car, but at the time a lot of my usage was around town and the mpg was laughable! I also found the gearbox to be woeful - from stationary it used to hesitate before pulling away. That said, now you’ve planted the seed... it *could* work.
The French stuff... I can’t, sorry. Stupid unjustifiable bias I’m afraid. I just don’t like and don’t trust french cars.
VW Touran.. the ex had one. I just could not get comfy in it (the car not the ex
) The seating position was like a van, very over the pedals. It was a fine bit of kit and I can see the benefits otherwise.
I should have mentioned, I’ve had an XC90 in the past. I bloody loved that car, but at the time a lot of my usage was around town and the mpg was laughable! I also found the gearbox to be woeful - from stationary it used to hesitate before pulling away. That said, now you’ve planted the seed... it *could* work.
The French stuff... I can’t, sorry. Stupid unjustifiable bias I’m afraid. I just don’t like and don’t trust french cars.
VW Touran.. the ex had one. I just could not get comfy in it (the car not the ex
) The seating position was like a van, very over the pedals. It was a fine bit of kit and I can see the benefits otherwise. Edited by wiliferus on Monday 11th January 08:43
Seat Alhambra and the VW Sharan are both alternatives but not as dynamic as the S Max IMO.
I've had 2 XC90s and both were fantastic family cars with our 3 kids.
But they are showing their age now and are expensive to run.
Thought you couldn't stomach 30 mpg
or are the man maths kicking in?
I've had 2 XC90s and both were fantastic family cars with our 3 kids.
But they are showing their age now and are expensive to run.
Thought you couldn't stomach 30 mpg
or are the man maths kicking in?Sister in law had one for there 2 small lads and dog, idea was to have the big family holidays in the UK and load it up with bikes, scooters etc, turned out the lads just like fortnite and the dog never went near it, they had a 60 plate 2.0 diesel (163 bhp) in titanium trim, it was a lovely car, but due to low mileage used to cost them in batteries and DPF un blocking.
It was plenty fast enough and we went on a joint holiday me in a 3 series with 2 kids and them in that, most of our stuff ended up in the S Max it was brilliant for that job.
I'd love one but the wife isn't keen on the "minibus" look, we had a 5008 (SUV one) which was great, 3 separate seats in the rear and we had 2 in car seats and the time and the 3rd could still fit in the middle fine, we leased it for 3 years and if we hadn't have had covid would have had another, again diesel engine and 4k town miles a year saw the battery and start stop having issues in year 3.
It was plenty fast enough and we went on a joint holiday me in a 3 series with 2 kids and them in that, most of our stuff ended up in the S Max it was brilliant for that job.
I'd love one but the wife isn't keen on the "minibus" look, we had a 5008 (SUV one) which was great, 3 separate seats in the rear and we had 2 in car seats and the time and the 3rd could still fit in the middle fine, we leased it for 3 years and if we hadn't have had covid would have had another, again diesel engine and 4k town miles a year saw the battery and start stop having issues in year 3.
GreatGranny said:
Seat Alhambra and the VW Sharan are both alternatives but not as dynamic as the S Max IMO.
I've had 2 XC90s and both were fantastic family cars with our 3 kids.
But they are showing their age now and are expensive to run.
Thought you couldn't stomach 30 mpg or are the man maths kicking in?
Man maths is always an issue. I've had 2 XC90s and both were fantastic family cars with our 3 kids.
But they are showing their age now and are expensive to run.
Thought you couldn't stomach 30 mpg
or are the man maths kicking in?
must try harder. I appreciate an Alhambra/Galaxy might be better choice, but for me I think they’re a step too far into the world of MPVs. I’d feel like a Addison Lee driver. At least the S-Max receives praise for its car like drive.
Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff