Snagging a Used Car from a Dealer
Discussion
You're buying a used car from a main dealer. Let's say it's about a year old and has 8k on the clock.
How 'good' would you want the car to be? Such as, chips in the paint; pitting (or chips) on the windscreen; condition of the wheels etc. On a car like this probably as close to 'new' as possible without it actually being new?
The same question for a two year-old car with 20k on the clock. Then a three year-old with say 25k.
As a subcontractor for various dealers I get to see both sides; what the customer wants or expects and how far the dealer will go to meet those demands. I have to say some of it is verging on chancing but sometimes the customer does expect the car to be as good as one out of the box.
Yesterday I replaced the windscreen on a 2020 Defender, 2.5k miles on the clock. It had three pinhead-sized surface pit marks on it. I can see how the dealer/salesman might see this as creating the conditions for a sale and if a new windscreen will seal the deal, okay. But what about the buyer? Is it merely a mindset that just wants to see they get something extra out of the deal? A new windscreen on a 2.5k mile car versus the original one with a couple of minute (very) repairable blemishes, to me, is excessive (but I'm grateful for the work!).
I see dealers bending over backwards for customers when selling pre-owned cars and it seems to me that for some customers it's still not enough. Like the chap who bought a very nice Audi, oozing with spec, and he got it at a very good price. A steal. He noticed a chip (on the windscreen) a week into owning it and when Halfords said they couldn't repair it he went back to the selling dealership and demanded something be done about it claiming he didn't notice the damage on handover as it was raining and that he didn't drive it as we were in lockdown. Even a perfect repair later (on the passenger side of a +three year-old car) he kicked up saying that if he didn't get a NEW windscreen out of this, he would get his wife - a partner in a legal firm - to help him escalate it.
Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful for the work but I do somethimes feel for the dealers more because in front of the monolith is a salesman desperately trying to earn - or hold onto - a commission from that sale. Conversely, it's also an opportunity for me to impress a future retail customer by doing a good job so I tend to smile and say nothing about my opinion on the matter!
How 'good' would you want the car to be? Such as, chips in the paint; pitting (or chips) on the windscreen; condition of the wheels etc. On a car like this probably as close to 'new' as possible without it actually being new?
The same question for a two year-old car with 20k on the clock. Then a three year-old with say 25k.
As a subcontractor for various dealers I get to see both sides; what the customer wants or expects and how far the dealer will go to meet those demands. I have to say some of it is verging on chancing but sometimes the customer does expect the car to be as good as one out of the box.
Yesterday I replaced the windscreen on a 2020 Defender, 2.5k miles on the clock. It had three pinhead-sized surface pit marks on it. I can see how the dealer/salesman might see this as creating the conditions for a sale and if a new windscreen will seal the deal, okay. But what about the buyer? Is it merely a mindset that just wants to see they get something extra out of the deal? A new windscreen on a 2.5k mile car versus the original one with a couple of minute (very) repairable blemishes, to me, is excessive (but I'm grateful for the work!).
I see dealers bending over backwards for customers when selling pre-owned cars and it seems to me that for some customers it's still not enough. Like the chap who bought a very nice Audi, oozing with spec, and he got it at a very good price. A steal. He noticed a chip (on the windscreen) a week into owning it and when Halfords said they couldn't repair it he went back to the selling dealership and demanded something be done about it claiming he didn't notice the damage on handover as it was raining and that he didn't drive it as we were in lockdown. Even a perfect repair later (on the passenger side of a +three year-old car) he kicked up saying that if he didn't get a NEW windscreen out of this, he would get his wife - a partner in a legal firm - to help him escalate it.
Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful for the work but I do somethimes feel for the dealers more because in front of the monolith is a salesman desperately trying to earn - or hold onto - a commission from that sale. Conversely, it's also an opportunity for me to impress a future retail customer by doing a good job so I tend to smile and say nothing about my opinion on the matter!
I was just mulling over similar last night, all be it private sales... you price a car appropriately yet somebody will be along to demand money off as they want to refurb the alloys, get it detailed, update the sat nav etc.
What one buyer would happily accept, another will make ridiculous demands... but frankly, if you want an "as new car" then perhaps but a new one? Don't want to pay new prices? Then accept a used car generally won't be flawless...
There's no definite answer - I guess it comes down to money and the specific buyer. The issue is many are deluded and think because it's being sold by a dealer, it should be flawless even though it's not a new car and with many dealers eager to please close the deal, it's just fuelled the fire.
What one buyer would happily accept, another will make ridiculous demands... but frankly, if you want an "as new car" then perhaps but a new one? Don't want to pay new prices? Then accept a used car generally won't be flawless...
There's no definite answer - I guess it comes down to money and the specific buyer. The issue is many are deluded and think because it's being sold by a dealer, it should be flawless even though it's not a new car and with many dealers eager to please close the deal, it's just fuelled the fire.
It all comes down to the price I’m paying.
If it’s top dollar I want the car as blemish free as possible.
If it’s ‘a deal’ then I accept the price paid reflects the imperfections.
Issues arise when dealers want top money for ropey cars / punters want champagne cars for lemonade money.
If it’s top dollar I want the car as blemish free as possible.
If it’s ‘a deal’ then I accept the price paid reflects the imperfections.
Issues arise when dealers want top money for ropey cars / punters want champagne cars for lemonade money.
Davie said:
if you want an "as new car" then perhaps but a new one? Don't want to pay new prices? Then accept a used car generally won't be flawless...
^ this. Davie said:
many are deluded and think because it's being sold by a dealer, it should be flawless even though it's not a new car and with many dealers eager to please close the deal, it's just fuelled the fire.
^ and this. /in a nutshell.
How the car is funded by the purchaser plays a part.
If its via a PCP as so many purchases are, then if that car is returned at the end of the agreement it is going to be scrutinised and assessed for wear and tear and damage. In this scenario, I would want the car to be immaculate when I pick it up.
If its via a PCP as so many purchases are, then if that car is returned at the end of the agreement it is going to be scrutinised and assessed for wear and tear and damage. In this scenario, I would want the car to be immaculate when I pick it up.
You've obviously witnessed what us punters don't see everyday and I'm sure that plenty of customers are utter a
holes making ridiculous demands however I genuinely seem to have experienced the opposite.
I generally buy from main dealers as once upon a time you could reasonably trust their cars to be the best. This is clearly no longer the case- as demonstrated by a thread I started a short few weeks ago.
A TT with a complete different shade of paint on the bumper..... And generally (thankfully) light scratches all over the paintwork. The latter issue can easily be resolved with a good detail which thankfully I can do but for the price paid, bought from a main dealer, I'd expect a decent buff eliminating most light scratches and a bumper matching the colour of the rest of the car!
holes making ridiculous demands however I genuinely seem to have experienced the opposite.I generally buy from main dealers as once upon a time you could reasonably trust their cars to be the best. This is clearly no longer the case- as demonstrated by a thread I started a short few weeks ago.
A TT with a complete different shade of paint on the bumper..... And generally (thankfully) light scratches all over the paintwork. The latter issue can easily be resolved with a good detail which thankfully I can do but for the price paid, bought from a main dealer, I'd expect a decent buff eliminating most light scratches and a bumper matching the colour of the rest of the car!
It depends on the standards set by the dealer.
I bought a one year old BMW from a dealer with 10k miles on it, sight unseen.
In line with BMW AUC standards, I told them I was expecting a car with no major scratches or dents and with sizeable stone chips touched in. I was also expecting perfect alloys and a good level of life in all consumables (tyres, etc)
They happily agreed as it's the standard they set for the cars they sell at this age and level. I duly turned up to collect it and the car was perfect.
Buying an older car leads to a lowering of expectations. Cars get used, it becomes harder to bring them back to 'new' so I'd expect more stone chips, for example.
What I wouldn't expect is replacement rather than repair, where appropriate. The windscreen story from above for example, is ridiculous. A repair should be totally sufficient. Likewise, damaged alloys - you'd expect to be refurbed rather than replaced.
FWIW, I don't think price has too much to do with it in respect of it being a 'deal'. If I'd bought my car for £2k less, I'd still expect the same standards on collection unless I had viewed an unprepped car and it was agreed that no prep would be done before purchase.
Marque is also a factor. If I'm buying a 3 year old Ferrari, I'm expecting a higher standard than a 3 year old Dacia.
I bought a one year old BMW from a dealer with 10k miles on it, sight unseen.
In line with BMW AUC standards, I told them I was expecting a car with no major scratches or dents and with sizeable stone chips touched in. I was also expecting perfect alloys and a good level of life in all consumables (tyres, etc)
They happily agreed as it's the standard they set for the cars they sell at this age and level. I duly turned up to collect it and the car was perfect.
Buying an older car leads to a lowering of expectations. Cars get used, it becomes harder to bring them back to 'new' so I'd expect more stone chips, for example.
What I wouldn't expect is replacement rather than repair, where appropriate. The windscreen story from above for example, is ridiculous. A repair should be totally sufficient. Likewise, damaged alloys - you'd expect to be refurbed rather than replaced.
FWIW, I don't think price has too much to do with it in respect of it being a 'deal'. If I'd bought my car for £2k less, I'd still expect the same standards on collection unless I had viewed an unprepped car and it was agreed that no prep would be done before purchase.
Marque is also a factor. If I'm buying a 3 year old Ferrari, I'm expecting a higher standard than a 3 year old Dacia.
For a 1-3 year old car:
Windscreen chips wouldn't bother me - as long as we're not talking stuff that would fail an MOT.
Stone chips wouldn't bother me - it's a used car, stone chips happen - as long as it's not been peppered at the front as if it's spent half it's life on trackdays.
For that age of car, I'd expect wheels to show no sign of kerbing so would expect a dealer to refurb them if necessary. And I wouldn't expect the car to have obvious other cosmetic issues.
Windscreen chips wouldn't bother me - as long as we're not talking stuff that would fail an MOT.
Stone chips wouldn't bother me - it's a used car, stone chips happen - as long as it's not been peppered at the front as if it's spent half it's life on trackdays.
For that age of car, I'd expect wheels to show no sign of kerbing so would expect a dealer to refurb them if necessary. And I wouldn't expect the car to have obvious other cosmetic issues.
I'm on the other side of this one and hoping that it is trivial and not an uphill battle for a repair.
Bought a 12 year old car with a two year warranty, fully understanding that it is not a new car. However, on cold startups it's chucking a reasonable cloud of blue smoke out - stem seals. Now, hopefully some seal conditioner through it will result in it being absolutely perfect and no work required, but is a car burning it's lubricant acceptable for a reasonably low mileage used car under warranty? How hard can one push in that situation? Visibly burning oil (not consuming it in operation) is certainly not something that would be considered to be "normal", but are stem seals fair wear and tear?
I don't know if I have the gall to push hard on it because it's a used car, but at the same time is that letting them off the hook unreasonably because it is most definitely a fail/ing component?
Bought a 12 year old car with a two year warranty, fully understanding that it is not a new car. However, on cold startups it's chucking a reasonable cloud of blue smoke out - stem seals. Now, hopefully some seal conditioner through it will result in it being absolutely perfect and no work required, but is a car burning it's lubricant acceptable for a reasonably low mileage used car under warranty? How hard can one push in that situation? Visibly burning oil (not consuming it in operation) is certainly not something that would be considered to be "normal", but are stem seals fair wear and tear?
I don't know if I have the gall to push hard on it because it's a used car, but at the same time is that letting them off the hook unreasonably because it is most definitely a fail/ing component?
Pegscratch said:
I'm on the other side of this one and hoping that it is trivial and not an uphill battle for a repair.
Bought a 12 year old car with a two year warranty, fully understanding that it is not a new car. However, on cold startups it's chucking a reasonable cloud of blue smoke out - stem seals. Now, hopefully some seal conditioner through it will result in it being absolutely perfect and no work required, but is a car burning it's lubricant acceptable for a reasonably low mileage used car under warranty? How hard can one push in that situation? Visibly burning oil (not consuming it in operation) is certainly not something that would be considered to be "normal", but are stem seals fair wear and tear?
I don't know if I have the gall to push hard on it because it's a used car, but at the same time is that letting them off the hook unreasonably because it is most definitely a fail/ing component?
What sort of miles and what did you pay for it?Bought a 12 year old car with a two year warranty, fully understanding that it is not a new car. However, on cold startups it's chucking a reasonable cloud of blue smoke out - stem seals. Now, hopefully some seal conditioner through it will result in it being absolutely perfect and no work required, but is a car burning it's lubricant acceptable for a reasonably low mileage used car under warranty? How hard can one push in that situation? Visibly burning oil (not consuming it in operation) is certainly not something that would be considered to be "normal", but are stem seals fair wear and tear?
I don't know if I have the gall to push hard on it because it's a used car, but at the same time is that letting them off the hook unreasonably because it is most definitely a fail/ing component?
On paper, a 12 year old car is seriously getting on in age...
As others have said I think it's all to do with how competitively that particular car is priced - If it's got some pinhead chips in the windscreen (~£600 + fitting average for a replacement?), paint chips to plastics or not down to bare metal? Alloys seen more of the curb than the opening scenes of American History X?
My i30N had a pinhead chip in the windscreen within 80 miles of buying, didn't get it fixed until I sold it (free, no excess from insurance) as I just think it's a constant of driving on british roads and not worth addressing unless posing a problem.
I'm not put off by general paint chips unless they've gone down to bare metal and not been treated, I don't want to inherit any potential rust problems on a new vehicle and I wouldn't expect the car to come with any scuffs/dents if it's that new i.e. dealer fixed prior to listing.
Some people want a car that is in pristine showroom condition but want to pay 30% less... Those choosing beggars will never be pleased.
My i30N had a pinhead chip in the windscreen within 80 miles of buying, didn't get it fixed until I sold it (free, no excess from insurance) as I just think it's a constant of driving on british roads and not worth addressing unless posing a problem.
I'm not put off by general paint chips unless they've gone down to bare metal and not been treated, I don't want to inherit any potential rust problems on a new vehicle and I wouldn't expect the car to come with any scuffs/dents if it's that new i.e. dealer fixed prior to listing.
Some people want a car that is in pristine showroom condition but want to pay 30% less... Those choosing beggars will never be pleased.
sat1983 said:
What sort of miles and what did you pay for it?
On paper, a 12 year old car is seriously getting on in age...
60k miles and a five figure sum. Appreciate the last point which is why I feel a little stuck between a rock and a hard place, because it's not "right" but is it "fair"?On paper, a 12 year old car is seriously getting on in age...
I’d expect condition commensurate with age and mileage, but from a dealer I’d expect avoidable damage to be fixed. So stone chips, pedal rubbers, consumables etc I would accept some inevitable wear, but kerbed alloys, parking scuffs, service due in three months etc I would expect to be addressed.
The dealer margin a buyer is expected to pay ought to cover these things; that’s the value they can add.
The dealer margin a buyer is expected to pay ought to cover these things; that’s the value they can add.
Pegscratch said:
I'm on the other side of this one and hoping that it is trivial and not an uphill battle for a repair.
Bought a 12 year old car with a two year warranty, fully understanding that it is not a new car. However, on cold startups it's chucking a reasonable cloud of blue smoke out - stem seals. Now, hopefully some seal conditioner through it will result in it being absolutely perfect and no work required, but is a car burning it's lubricant acceptable for a reasonably low mileage used car under warranty? How hard can one push in that situation? Visibly burning oil (not consuming it in operation) is certainly not something that would be considered to be "normal", but are stem seals fair wear and tear?
I don't know if I have the gall to push hard on it because it's a used car, but at the same time is that letting them off the hook unreasonably because it is most definitely a fail/ing component?
Surely that's what the warranty is for.Bought a 12 year old car with a two year warranty, fully understanding that it is not a new car. However, on cold startups it's chucking a reasonable cloud of blue smoke out - stem seals. Now, hopefully some seal conditioner through it will result in it being absolutely perfect and no work required, but is a car burning it's lubricant acceptable for a reasonably low mileage used car under warranty? How hard can one push in that situation? Visibly burning oil (not consuming it in operation) is certainly not something that would be considered to be "normal", but are stem seals fair wear and tear?
I don't know if I have the gall to push hard on it because it's a used car, but at the same time is that letting them off the hook unreasonably because it is most definitely a fail/ing component?
Hopefully it's a decent one and includes engine internals.
The spinner of plates said:
It all comes down to the price I’m paying.
If it’s top dollar I want the car as blemish free as possible.
If it’s ‘a deal’ then I accept the price paid reflects the imperfections.
Issues arise when dealers want top money for ropey cars / punters want champagne cars for lemonade money.
/thread.If it’s top dollar I want the car as blemish free as possible.
If it’s ‘a deal’ then I accept the price paid reflects the imperfections.
Issues arise when dealers want top money for ropey cars / punters want champagne cars for lemonade money.
CAP values/Parkers and so on have prices for excellent/fair/ropey and as long as priced correct then all good. If not then the condition needs to be rectified, or price negotiated.
If the Dealer was a fool and paid too much and can't get the margin he wants, that's his problem.
Glassman said:
I see dealers bending over backwards for customers when selling pre-owned cars...
I'm surprised by that - my experience, and it seems common on here, although I suppose you only hear negative things, is dealers are pretty hard-faced these days and it's very much "take it or leave it". A few times I've gone looking for nearly new cars, usually because the car was needed quickly, but ended up buying new.
What does a screen for a new Defender cost the dealer - maybe they're cheaper than I think?
Sheepshanks said:
GreatGranny said:
Surely that's what the warranty is for.
It's exactly the sort of thing that won't be covered.How bad is it - would it affect MOT emissions?
It doesn't appear to affect emissions test as it's only after sitting cold.
Pegscratch said:
60k miles and a five figure sum. Appreciate the last point which is why I feel a little stuck between a rock and a hard place, because it's not "right" but is it "fair"?
You should push for repair under warranty. Assuming its a decent car given price etc, is it a BMW V8? In which case you will need to get the stem seals done - better on the warranty's cost rather than yours.Gassing Station | Car Buying | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff