What sports car 35k
Discussion
Hi all,
I'm looking to replace my 02 Elise s2. Its beautiful to drive and look at, but having done 10 000 miles in it this year in road trips around europe, I'd like something just as unique, fun and good looking but with a bit more comfort/ability to take on more distance driving (I like my road trips and I would like to keep my very understanding and patient girlfriend who absolutely hates the Elise - impractical to get in, uncomfortable, lack of noise insulation)
I did think about keeping it as a track/fun car but its just in too good condition to take on track, I'm afraid I'd just ruin it on track ( also own a modified mx5 for track ) so it means its no longer that relevant to my needs I'm afraid.
So far, I've thought about Cayman 2.7s, Cayman 2.9s, v8 m3 and even a wildcard entry (BRZ thats obviously much cheaper than both but also interests me)
I love the caymans but not sure how durable the pre-DFI engines are. I've read a lot of posts around here from people saying their great BUT that if they were in the market for one again, they'd just up the budget and buy a 2.9.
I love the v8 sound of the m3 (aware they need rod bearings changed) and how it seems like it can be fun whilst somewhat more practical than the Elise. Slightly dislike how common it usually looks.
I also like the low ownership cost of BRZs and its handling reputation.
Basically looking for something as fun as the Elise in a b-road but with more long distance driving capabilities. One thing I really dislike with the Elise was the lack of excitement from the engine (standard k-series). Priority for me really is driving fun and sound - not necessarily looking to be the fastest thing on the road, so something that's as fast or slightly faster than the Elise would be great.
Any other cars I'm missing out on? I'd like to keep the car for a couple of years.
I live in France so the market is somewhat different to the uk - a cayman 2.7 usually goes for 24-27 k, a 2.9 for 30/35, the e92 m3 for 30-40, and a brz for 18-24.
Thanks,
Al
I'm looking to replace my 02 Elise s2. Its beautiful to drive and look at, but having done 10 000 miles in it this year in road trips around europe, I'd like something just as unique, fun and good looking but with a bit more comfort/ability to take on more distance driving (I like my road trips and I would like to keep my very understanding and patient girlfriend who absolutely hates the Elise - impractical to get in, uncomfortable, lack of noise insulation)
I did think about keeping it as a track/fun car but its just in too good condition to take on track, I'm afraid I'd just ruin it on track ( also own a modified mx5 for track ) so it means its no longer that relevant to my needs I'm afraid.
So far, I've thought about Cayman 2.7s, Cayman 2.9s, v8 m3 and even a wildcard entry (BRZ thats obviously much cheaper than both but also interests me)
I love the caymans but not sure how durable the pre-DFI engines are. I've read a lot of posts around here from people saying their great BUT that if they were in the market for one again, they'd just up the budget and buy a 2.9.
I love the v8 sound of the m3 (aware they need rod bearings changed) and how it seems like it can be fun whilst somewhat more practical than the Elise. Slightly dislike how common it usually looks.
I also like the low ownership cost of BRZs and its handling reputation.
Basically looking for something as fun as the Elise in a b-road but with more long distance driving capabilities. One thing I really dislike with the Elise was the lack of excitement from the engine (standard k-series). Priority for me really is driving fun and sound - not necessarily looking to be the fastest thing on the road, so something that's as fast or slightly faster than the Elise would be great.
Any other cars I'm missing out on? I'd like to keep the car for a couple of years.
I live in France so the market is somewhat different to the uk - a cayman 2.7 usually goes for 24-27 k, a 2.9 for 30/35, the e92 m3 for 30-40, and a brz for 18-24.
Thanks,
Al
I've owned a Lotus of some description for the last 15 years and I currently have a turbocharged Elise S1, which is a bit mad! Similar story to you ...
I bought a Jaguar F-Type V6S convertible! It's a long, wide and heavy car (V6 'vert is around 1600Kgs), so don't expect it to handle anything like a Lotus down a B-road. However the howling, snorting, pops and bangs of the V6 is just incredible - and hugely addictive! Paired with the ZF8 gearbox and some short ratios, you can go up and down the box creating all sorts of ruckus, whilst remaining within legal speeds. It also looks fantastic on the drive!
The handling is good, brakes are very good (mine has the 'Super Performance' big brake kit), more space in the boot than an Elise and plenty of technology/interior drama such as electric roof that operates at 30mph, central air vent that raises when you need it, mood lighting that changes depending on driving mode, a fighter-jet style gear selector and mode selector etc ...
Tax is around £315-£330 and MPG on a long run can see up to 40MPG! That said, my average is around 17-24MPG for short/fun journeys.
It's quite the step away from a Lotus, but I doubt you'd be disappointed. I'd recommend opting for one with a warranty though. The F-Type does have it's weaknesses and foibles, some of which can be surprisingly expensive.
I'd also suggest a TVR of some kind?? Chim? Tamora? How about a Vantage V8? Maserati GranTurismo? Not sure how the prices of these translate on the French second hand market, but all of these cars are within £35K for a good example. I've just taken a deposit for my F-Type. I'm looking at similar models myself ...
I bought a Jaguar F-Type V6S convertible! It's a long, wide and heavy car (V6 'vert is around 1600Kgs), so don't expect it to handle anything like a Lotus down a B-road. However the howling, snorting, pops and bangs of the V6 is just incredible - and hugely addictive! Paired with the ZF8 gearbox and some short ratios, you can go up and down the box creating all sorts of ruckus, whilst remaining within legal speeds. It also looks fantastic on the drive!
The handling is good, brakes are very good (mine has the 'Super Performance' big brake kit), more space in the boot than an Elise and plenty of technology/interior drama such as electric roof that operates at 30mph, central air vent that raises when you need it, mood lighting that changes depending on driving mode, a fighter-jet style gear selector and mode selector etc ...
Tax is around £315-£330 and MPG on a long run can see up to 40MPG! That said, my average is around 17-24MPG for short/fun journeys.
It's quite the step away from a Lotus, but I doubt you'd be disappointed. I'd recommend opting for one with a warranty though. The F-Type does have it's weaknesses and foibles, some of which can be surprisingly expensive.
I'd also suggest a TVR of some kind?? Chim? Tamora? How about a Vantage V8? Maserati GranTurismo? Not sure how the prices of these translate on the French second hand market, but all of these cars are within £35K for a good example. I've just taken a deposit for my F-Type. I'm looking at similar models myself ...
In continental Europe, Evoras are 997.2 money, not Cayman money.
So, yes, OP, go for a Cayman, but be advised that these too are not really GTs. They're more comfortable than an Elise, but that doesn't take much. On a longer trip the road noise and the cabin rattle can get annoying, and the suspension is stiffer than you may like.
I myself am considering switching from a Cayman to a 911 for that reason. It's a fabulous car for B roads but not for long-distance vacations.
ETA: On that note, the BRZ might actually be a good alternative. I've not driven one, though.
So, yes, OP, go for a Cayman, but be advised that these too are not really GTs. They're more comfortable than an Elise, but that doesn't take much. On a longer trip the road noise and the cabin rattle can get annoying, and the suspension is stiffer than you may like.
I myself am considering switching from a Cayman to a 911 for that reason. It's a fabulous car for B roads but not for long-distance vacations.
ETA: On that note, the BRZ might actually be a good alternative. I've not driven one, though.
Edited by Fink-Nottle on Wednesday 7th April 16:47
Evora and Cayman seem the best bet for someone not wanting to compromise too much on sporting thrills-otherwise its a slippery slope to GTs which I'm sure you're g/f will love and be great for road trips but possibly not hardcore enough.
The other option is to buy an Ariel Atom and your g/f will be begging to get back in an Elise!
The other option is to buy an Ariel Atom and your g/f will be begging to get back in an Elise!
My first two picks are at opposite ends of the scale but both handle very well but in very different ways.
Lotus Evora great handling with the ability to do B road blast/long trips as well the odd track day with ease, PPF the car & you'll be fine.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012036...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202103190...
C6 Z06 epic V8 with a chassis that'll give a GT3 a workout plus long trips are an absolute breeze, the downside is LHD but it's something you get used to & means you just plan ahead more.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202007060...
The third is a Mustang now it won't be close to the two above but with the lower price you can add some nice proven suspension upgrades & you'll have a sweet handling car.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2016-FORD-MUSTANG-GT-5-...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202101278...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202103160...
Slightly leftfield:
Or take a look a the slightly unloved TVR Tamora/T350 you can get some great well cared for examples for sensible money:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012177...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202103310...
T350
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202009304...
If you don't mind an Auto the Lexus RC-F is a very compelling car (not for trackdays) but when you want to get a lick on it's a capable companion with a special V8:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202103260...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202103059...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202103160...
Lotus Evora great handling with the ability to do B road blast/long trips as well the odd track day with ease, PPF the car & you'll be fine.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012036...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202103190...
C6 Z06 epic V8 with a chassis that'll give a GT3 a workout plus long trips are an absolute breeze, the downside is LHD but it's something you get used to & means you just plan ahead more.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202007060...
The third is a Mustang now it won't be close to the two above but with the lower price you can add some nice proven suspension upgrades & you'll have a sweet handling car.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2016-FORD-MUSTANG-GT-5-...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202101278...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202103160...
Slightly leftfield:
Or take a look a the slightly unloved TVR Tamora/T350 you can get some great well cared for examples for sensible money:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202012177...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202103310...
T350
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202009304...
If you don't mind an Auto the Lexus RC-F is a very compelling car (not for trackdays) but when you want to get a lick on it's a capable companion with a special V8:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202103260...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202103059...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202103160...
i've driven extensively through France in an Elise, Evora, GT86 and Morgan. Evora is the obvious choice, but they're out of budget in France. it doesn't sound like you have tired of the Elise as much as the gf, which would make the 400 Evora ideal as it's more Elise-like. one for a few years time maybe. For those not familiar with touring in France, an Elise is much easier than touring in the south of england, 10k is great but not as heroic as it would be in the home counties!
The GT86 is possibly a good call, you'll have to drive it to see if you can get along with the infamous engine. If the 2 of you have driven 10k in the Elise over a year it certainly is a candidate for a comfort upgrade. how about a 184hp MX5? lovely engine and more comfortable than the Elise. a newish ND should be quite different to your track car i would have thought? (buckets, suspension etc??). TVRs are in budget, but could be temperamental at that level. touring on French roads is very civilised, so i guess a Cayman is the obvious answer as plenty available. or a Morgan? plenty under 45k euros and they tour very well in France!
A110s are still way out of budget, even in France! expensive market, which is why i imported a couple of cars while we were in eu.
The GT86 is possibly a good call, you'll have to drive it to see if you can get along with the infamous engine. If the 2 of you have driven 10k in the Elise over a year it certainly is a candidate for a comfort upgrade. how about a 184hp MX5? lovely engine and more comfortable than the Elise. a newish ND should be quite different to your track car i would have thought? (buckets, suspension etc??). TVRs are in budget, but could be temperamental at that level. touring on French roads is very civilised, so i guess a Cayman is the obvious answer as plenty available. or a Morgan? plenty under 45k euros and they tour very well in France!
A110s are still way out of budget, even in France! expensive market, which is why i imported a couple of cars while we were in eu.
Z4, or maybe a new supra
M2's have come down a bit or Audi TTRS.
If you really like driving for the road, I loved my R35 GTR, fast and raw but with a bit more comfort if you get a valved exhaust. Don't be put off by their size and weight, it hides it well and besides, you have an mx5 for that kind of stuff. Buy well though and look underneath for rust. Lots of sheds about.
M2's have come down a bit or Audi TTRS.
If you really like driving for the road, I loved my R35 GTR, fast and raw but with a bit more comfort if you get a valved exhaust. Don't be put off by their size and weight, it hides it well and besides, you have an mx5 for that kind of stuff. Buy well though and look underneath for rust. Lots of sheds about.
Edited by jimPH on Thursday 8th April 07:56
Im the same as you have an Elise but want something more comfy for road trips and a little more room
The problem you have is that once you have had an Elise you have been spoiled for driver engagment and lightweight fun, everthing else will feel heavy slugish and boring, or thats how i have found it.
Ive considered the F type & Porsches but i do keep coming back to the Abarth 124 Spider, cheap to run, just over 1000kg a reamp will give you over 200BHP per ton, they will do over 50mpg.
Im not going to sell my Elise its a keeper and the prices keep rising so seems daft to get shut.
The problem you have is that once you have had an Elise you have been spoiled for driver engagment and lightweight fun, everthing else will feel heavy slugish and boring, or thats how i have found it.
Ive considered the F type & Porsches but i do keep coming back to the Abarth 124 Spider, cheap to run, just over 1000kg a reamp will give you over 200BHP per ton, they will do over 50mpg.
Im not going to sell my Elise its a keeper and the prices keep rising so seems daft to get shut.
I was going to suggest a Noble M12, an Artega GT or a Venturi of some vintage, however they all seem to be a little bit above the 35k budget, although this M12 might be in haggle range https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/10811056
If I lived in an LHD country, I'd probably get a Vette tho.
Right, lots of good suggestions around here!
Thanks for everyone for your replies, much appreciated.
So, starting at the top: I love F-type coupes, but over budget around here. I'd be very happy with the supercharged v6 so maybe for the future! Its a truly good looking car.
I'd also like an Evora one day but they are at least 40 to 45k around here. I looked at the Europas but everyone says they're barely any different to an Elise in level of comfort/noise - shame really as otherwise its a very appealing car!
Pity the M3 not being that thrilling, I really thought it could be a good compromise - beautiful v8 sound and some practicality and comfort! Need to scratch the M-car itch one day. Also looked at Z4 M coupes but at the same price point I might as well get an M2.. still a bit out of reach around here, starting at 40k, otherwise I'd love one. I had a drive in one on track and its really nice.
Fink Nottle - as you say, it doesnt take much for a car to be more comfortable than an Elise! I've driven a 987 cayman s a couple of years ago on a mountain road and really enjoyed it, and could very well live with the package - size, sound, handling, looks and practicality. Wanted to originally get an S but dont want to take any chances and get an engine that needs a 10k engine rebuild in a year, hence looking at 2.7s and maybe even 2.9s - I know they're not as powerful but I like engines that need to be worked.
Still havent tried a gt86/BRZ but the only thing keeping me away from one at the moment is the engine - not necessarily the lack of power on paper that everyone talks about, but the sound thats lacking from the engine. I
Ithink if I were to get an Ariel or a Caterham i'd probably be single very ,very quickly
ZX10R NN - also been looking at Corvettes, although not as seriously as the other two alternatives I first mentioned. I'd LOVE one - c6s have a good reputation from what I read and that v8 - oh lord. People say they handle great and I quite like the looks. They're right at the top end of the budget but definitely interesting. Do you think reliability wise they'd be better than a cayman 987.1?
I also like the Mustang but not sure I'd be willing to pay the price they command around here for a good example - 25 to 30 k for a good 06 I think.
CABC - The Elise just isnt that adapted for the road trips i'd like to do. When I'm in it I like trying to avoid motorways as much as possible (b-roads are where the Elise really shines) but get it on a motorway for more than two hours and its the polar oppsite - it feels like its a total waste of car for the road. I did Barcelona - Lisbon in it this last summer and had to do it all on the motorway to gain time and it was one of the worst texperiences I've ever shad behind the wheel. of a car But everytime you get it on a b-road -its really good fun. I've also been a bit aprehensive about the lack of safety of the lotus. 2 years ago I had a deer jump in front of me and hit tthe mx5 at speed, it wasnt pretty. Can't imagine what the same wwould be like in the lotus.
As for GTRs, Nobles and a110s - way over budget but all on the list for the next 5 years!
Ash - And how did you find the change? I've never tried a vx220 but imagine it to be quite similar to an Elise except for the engine - any regrets yet?
And was keen on the 124 abarth idea but they're all automatics around here (I enjoy manuals a bit more) - shame really!
I think a c6 Corvette is very appealing if I can find a good one. Still very keen on a 987 cayman as well - it seems like it has the right balance of ability for roadtrips as well as b-road blasting.
Thanks for everyone for your replies, much appreciated.
So, starting at the top: I love F-type coupes, but over budget around here. I'd be very happy with the supercharged v6 so maybe for the future! Its a truly good looking car.
I'd also like an Evora one day but they are at least 40 to 45k around here. I looked at the Europas but everyone says they're barely any different to an Elise in level of comfort/noise - shame really as otherwise its a very appealing car!
Pity the M3 not being that thrilling, I really thought it could be a good compromise - beautiful v8 sound and some practicality and comfort! Need to scratch the M-car itch one day. Also looked at Z4 M coupes but at the same price point I might as well get an M2.. still a bit out of reach around here, starting at 40k, otherwise I'd love one. I had a drive in one on track and its really nice.
Fink Nottle - as you say, it doesnt take much for a car to be more comfortable than an Elise! I've driven a 987 cayman s a couple of years ago on a mountain road and really enjoyed it, and could very well live with the package - size, sound, handling, looks and practicality. Wanted to originally get an S but dont want to take any chances and get an engine that needs a 10k engine rebuild in a year, hence looking at 2.7s and maybe even 2.9s - I know they're not as powerful but I like engines that need to be worked.
Still havent tried a gt86/BRZ but the only thing keeping me away from one at the moment is the engine - not necessarily the lack of power on paper that everyone talks about, but the sound thats lacking from the engine. I
Ithink if I were to get an Ariel or a Caterham i'd probably be single very ,very quickly
ZX10R NN - also been looking at Corvettes, although not as seriously as the other two alternatives I first mentioned. I'd LOVE one - c6s have a good reputation from what I read and that v8 - oh lord. People say they handle great and I quite like the looks. They're right at the top end of the budget but definitely interesting. Do you think reliability wise they'd be better than a cayman 987.1?
I also like the Mustang but not sure I'd be willing to pay the price they command around here for a good example - 25 to 30 k for a good 06 I think.
CABC - The Elise just isnt that adapted for the road trips i'd like to do. When I'm in it I like trying to avoid motorways as much as possible (b-roads are where the Elise really shines) but get it on a motorway for more than two hours and its the polar oppsite - it feels like its a total waste of car for the road. I did Barcelona - Lisbon in it this last summer and had to do it all on the motorway to gain time and it was one of the worst texperiences I've ever shad behind the wheel. of a car But everytime you get it on a b-road -its really good fun. I've also been a bit aprehensive about the lack of safety of the lotus. 2 years ago I had a deer jump in front of me and hit tthe mx5 at speed, it wasnt pretty. Can't imagine what the same wwould be like in the lotus.
As for GTRs, Nobles and a110s - way over budget but all on the list for the next 5 years!
Ash - And how did you find the change? I've never tried a vx220 but imagine it to be quite similar to an Elise except for the engine - any regrets yet?
And was keen on the 124 abarth idea but they're all automatics around here (I enjoy manuals a bit more) - shame really!
I think a c6 Corvette is very appealing if I can find a good one. Still very keen on a 987 cayman as well - it seems like it has the right balance of ability for roadtrips as well as b-road blasting.
Tragically, an awesome C6 just sold on PH. He was asking 32k GBP, and once I was finished reading his ad I was a Corvette convert.
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/11487121
Re. the Cayman, the 987.2 series (2009+) is supposed to be impervious to bore scoring. That anyway is what I want to be believe, and it is what I used to believe.
But I am not so sure anymore because there are cases of 997.2s that have needed the engine replaced for excessive oil consumption. I don't know what causes that, and I don't think it's neearly as frequent as the 997.1 issue. But I do know the 987.2 and 997.2 engines are basically the same.
https://www.pistonheads.com/buy/listing/11487121
Re. the Cayman, the 987.2 series (2009+) is supposed to be impervious to bore scoring. That anyway is what I want to be believe, and it is what I used to believe.
But I am not so sure anymore because there are cases of 997.2s that have needed the engine replaced for excessive oil consumption. I don't know what causes that, and I don't think it's neearly as frequent as the 997.1 issue. But I do know the 987.2 and 997.2 engines are basically the same.
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