£35k M2 or £20k E46/E92 M3
Discussion
I spend so much time lurking on this forum thought it might be time to make a post instead.
Dilemma is in the title but just to outline the requirements I'm trying to fulfil:
-RWD
-Manual (and manual handbrake)
-Preferably coupe
-5s 0-60 (not a strict requirement but good performance)
-Capable of road tripping and the occasional office commute, so cruise control and a stereo
-Could survive the occasional track day (2-3 a year)
-ULEZ compliant (think E46 just squeaks into this)
I have pretty much decided that an M2 is what I'm after, it seems to tick the boxes and they've appealed since release, but wanted to put the options to PH.
1) OG M2 c.£30-35k bought with cash + loan. Annoyingly and as I'm sure everyone has noticed, prices have really crept up, I remember seeing similar pre-covid in the £20s, but nevertheless doable
2) E46/E92 M3 £20k ish cash. Again prices are strong but crucially these are in budget without a loan. I like both models a lot but they are getting on a bit now and aware that they will require a bit of money to run. Not too many manual coupes either. £600 tax on the E92 a bit annoying, however both most likely depreciation proof
3) Something else/cheaper? 987.2 Cayman S keeps coming into mind but there aren't many around, and have similarly exploded in price
Or 4) Hold off a little until the market maybe cools? Though I'm not counting on this in the short term
Which would you pick?
Dilemma is in the title but just to outline the requirements I'm trying to fulfil:
-RWD
-Manual (and manual handbrake)
-Preferably coupe
-5s 0-60 (not a strict requirement but good performance)
-Capable of road tripping and the occasional office commute, so cruise control and a stereo
-Could survive the occasional track day (2-3 a year)
-ULEZ compliant (think E46 just squeaks into this)
I have pretty much decided that an M2 is what I'm after, it seems to tick the boxes and they've appealed since release, but wanted to put the options to PH.
1) OG M2 c.£30-35k bought with cash + loan. Annoyingly and as I'm sure everyone has noticed, prices have really crept up, I remember seeing similar pre-covid in the £20s, but nevertheless doable
2) E46/E92 M3 £20k ish cash. Again prices are strong but crucially these are in budget without a loan. I like both models a lot but they are getting on a bit now and aware that they will require a bit of money to run. Not too many manual coupes either. £600 tax on the E92 a bit annoying, however both most likely depreciation proof
3) Something else/cheaper? 987.2 Cayman S keeps coming into mind but there aren't many around, and have similarly exploded in price
Or 4) Hold off a little until the market maybe cools? Though I'm not counting on this in the short term
Which would you pick?
Thanks, they have been considered! I test drove an M140i manual a couple of weeks ago thinking it would be the one but came back a bit disappointed. The engine was incredible but found the steering and chassis very woolly, and the clutch like an on/off switch, though maybe that was just that car. I currently have an RS Meg Cup so I think stepping out of that into the BMW didn't help. The M cars seem to offer the extra edge like the RS. Though I understand some suspension mods on a 40i can make a lot of difference.
I would look at an M240i manual and give it another chance maybe
I would look at an M240i manual and give it another chance maybe
orangeaddikt said:
Thanks, they have been considered! I test drove an M140i manual a couple of weeks ago thinking it would be the one but came back a bit disappointed. The engine was incredible but found the steering and chassis very woolly, and the clutch like an on/off switch, though maybe that was just that car. I currently have an RS Meg Cup so I think stepping out of that into the BMW didn't help. The M cars seem to offer the extra edge like the RS. Though I understand some suspension mods on a 40i can make a lot of difference.
I would look at an M240i manual and give it another chance maybe
I have a 240i and I think it's a phenominal car, mine is completely standard and I have no plans to modify it personally, I'm sure the M2 is a better car though personally if I was to move to one it would have to be the M2 Competition which is even more money and then I start thinking what else I could get and would likely go for a 911 instead. I would look at an M240i manual and give it another chance maybe
I also looked at the E92 M3 prior to buying my car and whilst I did really enjoy it I felt the 240i was a better daily car prospect.
If you are looking at tracking it the Bilstein B8 setup is very popular, try to test one without run flat tyres, mine has them and I don't rate them, i'm just running them down so I can replace them with Michellin Pilot Sports which are the popular choice.
Long time lurker also! Getting involved as I have almost the exact same requirements as you (apart from ULEZ)
I had also pretty much decided on an OG M2 near the bottom of the market at the beginning of the year. This was after driving an early M135i and it feeling like something was missing (chassis wise) and thinking i would regret not going full M. Nearly got an E92 M3 at a great price that was local, but someone paid a deposit over the phone without even seeing it....
Personally, given the crazy price rises, i am going to wait a year and see what the markets like, unlike you however i don't have a RS Megane to help pass the time so will be selling my diesel commuter which no longer gets used and getting some cheap fun (RS Clio, 130i etc)
Think it depends how much you are itching to change!
I had also pretty much decided on an OG M2 near the bottom of the market at the beginning of the year. This was after driving an early M135i and it feeling like something was missing (chassis wise) and thinking i would regret not going full M. Nearly got an E92 M3 at a great price that was local, but someone paid a deposit over the phone without even seeing it....
Personally, given the crazy price rises, i am going to wait a year and see what the markets like, unlike you however i don't have a RS Megane to help pass the time so will be selling my diesel commuter which no longer gets used and getting some cheap fun (RS Clio, 130i etc)
Think it depends how much you are itching to change!
Edited by Mac One on Friday 18th June 11:09
Out of the BMW choices, mine would be E92 M3 if having to daily it or an E46 M3 if it was more of a weekend/occasional use car. Not sure why but the M2 just doesn't do it for me and if it was a case of getting into an M3 and saving myself £15k instead, thats the route I'd be going...
orangeaddikt said:
Thanks, they have been considered! I test drove an M140i manual a couple of weeks ago thinking it would be the one but came back a bit disappointed. The engine was incredible but found the steering and chassis very woolly, and the clutch like an on/off switch, though maybe that was just that car. I currently have an RS Meg Cup so I think stepping out of that into the BMW didn't help. The M cars seem to offer the extra edge like the RS. Though I understand some suspension mods on a 40i can make a lot of difference.
I would look at an M240i manual and give it another chance maybe
The chassis is better in the early M2 but the steering is just as sI would look at an M240i manual and give it another chance maybe
te as in the M135i/140i. You'll notice these weaknesses in BMWs game even more coming from something as good as an RS Megane.I'd hold out for a Cayman. There is a notable difference between a car that has been designed as a sports car from day one compared to a saloon or hatch that's been fettled by a factory tuning department.
Pistonheader101 said:
C63?
OP wants a manual with a manual handbrake, C63 has neither.OP are you up for a project car? Engine swapping the V8 lump from the E92 into a E82 135i Coupe has been done a couple of times. Check out the video I've linked below, most the parts are just bolt on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msuLtEYwHRk&lc...
Edited by Mo28 on Friday 18th June 14:35
Edited by Mo28 on Friday 18th June 14:36
It sounds to me like an M4 ticks more of your boxes but you won't be getting a manual, a remap sorts out the spikey power delivery whilst adding a few nice extra ponies.
You can get a nice one for around 25-27k
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106143...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106133...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202104111...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202103200...
If it has to be a manual, have you considered a Mustang?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106173...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284286008348?hash=item4...
They handle well (& can be made sharper) have a great soundtrack & are simple to maintain.
At 35k I'd want something more special, which is where the Evora comes in with it's great handling it'll devour track days & still daily with ease.
You can get a nice N/A for the same money as the M4:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202105112...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106083...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202105172...
You can get a nice one for around 25-27k
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106143...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106133...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202104111...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202103200...
If it has to be a manual, have you considered a Mustang?
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106173...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284286008348?hash=item4...
They handle well (& can be made sharper) have a great soundtrack & are simple to maintain.
At 35k I'd want something more special, which is where the Evora comes in with it's great handling it'll devour track days & still daily with ease.
You can get a nice N/A for the same money as the M4:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202105112...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106083...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202105172...
I was in a similar position to yourself and ended up with a Porsche 997.1 C2S which you can get for £25kish - matches all your criteria.
Or you could get a 996 C4S for similar or stretching to £35k, a 996 turbo which doesn't have any engine issues to worry about.
There is also the Z4M Coupe for £20k to consider
Or you could get a 996 C4S for similar or stretching to £35k, a 996 turbo which doesn't have any engine issues to worry about.
There is also the Z4M Coupe for £20k to consider
Bias opinion admittedly, but with a similar budget, I went for an S550 Mustang.
I had originally planned to buy an M5 but after trying the M5 and M6 and being left cold, tried the M2, M3 and M4 I could not part with my money for any of them. I was properly gutted because I'd dreamt of an M5 for years but just found it (along with the others) extremely profficient but a little dull at regular driving speeds.
I'd completely written the Mustang off at the time, but my girlfriend had convinced me to just test drive one, which I did.
3 months later I owned one.
It's dynamically worse in every way but has more character and a truly wonderful V8 mated to a surprisingly nice manual box.
For what it's worth, running costs will be substantially less than an M car too.
I pay £255 for a service, £145 VED and have averaged 25mpg over 16k miles - though have achieved 40mpg average on some 300 mile runs before.
I had originally planned to buy an M5 but after trying the M5 and M6 and being left cold, tried the M2, M3 and M4 I could not part with my money for any of them. I was properly gutted because I'd dreamt of an M5 for years but just found it (along with the others) extremely profficient but a little dull at regular driving speeds.
I'd completely written the Mustang off at the time, but my girlfriend had convinced me to just test drive one, which I did.
3 months later I owned one.
It's dynamically worse in every way but has more character and a truly wonderful V8 mated to a surprisingly nice manual box.
For what it's worth, running costs will be substantially less than an M car too.
I pay £255 for a service, £145 VED and have averaged 25mpg over 16k miles - though have achieved 40mpg average on some 300 mile runs before.
I had a e46 m3 for 6 years and loved it. I then replaced it with a 135i coupe with a n55 engine. The 135i was lovely and very fast but didn't quite replace my m3. I am now in a rs megane 250cup, i have only had it a week but instantly know its right up there with my old m3!
So i would imagine that if you are going the other way from a rs to bmw then stick to a proper m car. If your mileage is relatively low, the odd commute and weekend use, i would personally go e92 m3. A e46 is great but getting quite old now so can be heavy on maintenance, i suppose it depends on the example, although always be careful with rust. If you are doing a decent mileage it makes sense to take the loan and get a m2.
RS meganes are fantastic fun though😁!
So i would imagine that if you are going the other way from a rs to bmw then stick to a proper m car. If your mileage is relatively low, the odd commute and weekend use, i would personally go e92 m3. A e46 is great but getting quite old now so can be heavy on maintenance, i suppose it depends on the example, although always be careful with rust. If you are doing a decent mileage it makes sense to take the loan and get a m2.
RS meganes are fantastic fun though😁!
E46 m3 brilliant car but a labour of love and in my opinion a few years ago they were the go to buy for 15k. Now they're closer to 20k for a decent example which will still need maintenence like you've never known I'd strongly advise against it. But I have to say, it's a brilliant car and a noise you will never replicate. The whine up to 8k is something to experience in itself.
The e92 is a better buy now, especially for the full package and if used as a daily is definitely the way to go however I wouldn't sing home about bmw manuals, they're very poor and need some modifications to make them feel a lot nicer.
Both cars above are much better suited to their auto counterparts.
My advice would be a dct e92 with a gts map. One its a v8, two it's the last v8 m3 and I think as a package they're bang for buck.
However if its weekend car only territory I'd also considered an offering from lotus and potentially stretch the budget to an s2. Or if you fancy a project then buy an s1 elise and do the Honda conversion.
I've not mentioned the m2 because the n55 although has no engine issues such as crank hubs, leaking turbos seals etc like the s55, just doesn't feel special enough. If you go look at the e46 and e92 and then get in an m2 you'll know what I mean. The interior is a step down in my opinion and for similar money an m4 is night and day a better car than the original m2.
Or as others have pointed out you have the option to take an m240 and make it better than an m2 by having a trip to birds and adding the diff and suspension upgrades. M240 is very capable and you also enjoy the fact it doesn't have M tax on parts and servicing. Also the 240 and m2 share the same interior which is why it doesn't feel special to me. An M car should always be a big step up everywhere and this is what is lacking with the m2 and m2c to a point.
The e92 is a better buy now, especially for the full package and if used as a daily is definitely the way to go however I wouldn't sing home about bmw manuals, they're very poor and need some modifications to make them feel a lot nicer.
Both cars above are much better suited to their auto counterparts.
My advice would be a dct e92 with a gts map. One its a v8, two it's the last v8 m3 and I think as a package they're bang for buck.
However if its weekend car only territory I'd also considered an offering from lotus and potentially stretch the budget to an s2. Or if you fancy a project then buy an s1 elise and do the Honda conversion.
I've not mentioned the m2 because the n55 although has no engine issues such as crank hubs, leaking turbos seals etc like the s55, just doesn't feel special enough. If you go look at the e46 and e92 and then get in an m2 you'll know what I mean. The interior is a step down in my opinion and for similar money an m4 is night and day a better car than the original m2.
Or as others have pointed out you have the option to take an m240 and make it better than an m2 by having a trip to birds and adding the diff and suspension upgrades. M240 is very capable and you also enjoy the fact it doesn't have M tax on parts and servicing. Also the 240 and m2 share the same interior which is why it doesn't feel special to me. An M car should always be a big step up everywhere and this is what is lacking with the m2 and m2c to a point.
Thanks all, a lot to think about
C63 - Amazing cars but don't fancy an auto
M4 DCT/manual - Something about the M4 just doesn't appeal quite as much but I would test a manual one
Mustang - These appeal a lot... my only concern is how they would hold up on a track day? I know the M3/M2 aren't particularly lightweight but these seem to be on another level? Though if anyone has tracked one then I'm curious to hear about it!
Porsche 997.1 - Engine issues scare me (probably unfounded now) and similar age to the M3s but seem to be a lot more money to buy, leaving a bit less for running costs
996 Turbo - Love these but pretty old and expensive now particularly for a manual with okay mileage!
Lotus Evora/Elise - I have driven an Evora, it handled very well but with a crap gearchange, Elise S2 felt good too but also suffered the same horrible gearchange - something that can be fixed?
135i/V8 - I'm sure it would be mega, but not up for a project unfortunately
This is a probably a cop out answer but I think I'm going to keep a similar plan which is keep searching for an M2/e92/M240i/e46, in that order, and if a good example of either comes up then will go for it.
A very nice looking 2006 e46 with 78k popped up in the classifieds but I think was hoovered up by a dealer before I could get there. Up for £18k privately, now £28k at the dealer, madness!
C63 - Amazing cars but don't fancy an auto
M4 DCT/manual - Something about the M4 just doesn't appeal quite as much but I would test a manual one
Mustang - These appeal a lot... my only concern is how they would hold up on a track day? I know the M3/M2 aren't particularly lightweight but these seem to be on another level? Though if anyone has tracked one then I'm curious to hear about it!
Porsche 997.1 - Engine issues scare me (probably unfounded now) and similar age to the M3s but seem to be a lot more money to buy, leaving a bit less for running costs
996 Turbo - Love these but pretty old and expensive now particularly for a manual with okay mileage!
Lotus Evora/Elise - I have driven an Evora, it handled very well but with a crap gearchange, Elise S2 felt good too but also suffered the same horrible gearchange - something that can be fixed?
135i/V8 - I'm sure it would be mega, but not up for a project unfortunately
This is a probably a cop out answer but I think I'm going to keep a similar plan which is keep searching for an M2/e92/M240i/e46, in that order, and if a good example of either comes up then will go for it.
A very nice looking 2006 e46 with 78k popped up in the classifieds but I think was hoovered up by a dealer before I could get there. Up for £18k privately, now £28k at the dealer, madness!
To add to your thoughts OP, I had a manual E92 M3 for a couple of years, including a road trip around Germany and took it on the Nürburgring.
It takes work to enjoy the performance in every day driving, as the engine lacks torque low down and needs to be extended before it feels special. Also, the car is pretty heavy.
If I was looking for another BMW performance coupe now it would be the M2 - nice and compact, turbo torque providing readily accessible performance, and they look great!
It takes work to enjoy the performance in every day driving, as the engine lacks torque low down and needs to be extended before it feels special. Also, the car is pretty heavy.
If I was looking for another BMW performance coupe now it would be the M2 - nice and compact, turbo torque providing readily accessible performance, and they look great!
Yes you can improve the Evora gearchange, new cables from the 2012 onwards are loads better or if you wanted you could spend a fair chunk more and have the open gate from the latest GT models
Worth noting that the Evora is loads comfier than any M car & has better residuals that a M4
Ive recntly bought a NA Evora and really enjoy it, id rather track my Elise but for a useable sports/GT car its amazing
Worth noting that the Evora is loads comfier than any M car & has better residuals that a M4
Ive recntly bought a NA Evora and really enjoy it, id rather track my Elise but for a useable sports/GT car its amazing
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