Warranty dispute
Discussion
Evening all,
A couple of months ago I bought a 2005 Defender 90 from a dealer, viewed virtually with videos and photos etc and delivered within the price. I was happy to do this for 2 reasons, 1. I have had a few Land Rovers so aware of the common issues and bugbears, 2. it came with 3 months of warranty.
For a 16 year old landy it was over priced but I was happy to spend a couple of grand more for peace of mind with it coming from a dealer.
Sure enough, it turned up (a few days late due to them struggling to find someone to deliver it within their budget it turns out) and straight away there were some disappointing issues. The presentation was very poor; fuel cap missing and replaced with an push fit temporary one, ripped mud flap, rusted trim, missing accelerator pedal grip etc etc. I added up the replacement parts and they "kindly" refunded £100 towards putting the defects right. In reality I spent a lot more to make it right.
After filling the tank for the first time it leaked diesel everywhere and the level sensor didn't read right. Spoke to the aftermarket warranty company and took it to the local landy specialist, long story short they replaced the sender unit and pump, various perished hoses and rear windscreen for the heater element. £1300 later it is fixed. Still massive play in rear halfshafts but as they haven't actually failed they aren't covered by the warranty.
After this, the warranty company refunded me around £680. I forwarded all info to the dealer to say that the definition of a warranty was that I was not supposed to be out of pocket etc, they have offered me £200 on a take it or leave it basis.
With hindsight after seeing how the vehicle was presented I should have turned it away knowing there would be more issues, but I didn't- it is a lovely looking motor now I've sorted all the tatty bits and I plan to keep it.
It's clear the dealer has no pride, do I fight for reimbursement, cut my losses and take the £200 and leave a truthful review to help the next person or is there another option that doesn't involve tonnes of wasted time and court etc? If they had prepped it properly none of this would have happened.
Thanks,
TC
A couple of months ago I bought a 2005 Defender 90 from a dealer, viewed virtually with videos and photos etc and delivered within the price. I was happy to do this for 2 reasons, 1. I have had a few Land Rovers so aware of the common issues and bugbears, 2. it came with 3 months of warranty.
For a 16 year old landy it was over priced but I was happy to spend a couple of grand more for peace of mind with it coming from a dealer.
Sure enough, it turned up (a few days late due to them struggling to find someone to deliver it within their budget it turns out) and straight away there were some disappointing issues. The presentation was very poor; fuel cap missing and replaced with an push fit temporary one, ripped mud flap, rusted trim, missing accelerator pedal grip etc etc. I added up the replacement parts and they "kindly" refunded £100 towards putting the defects right. In reality I spent a lot more to make it right.
After filling the tank for the first time it leaked diesel everywhere and the level sensor didn't read right. Spoke to the aftermarket warranty company and took it to the local landy specialist, long story short they replaced the sender unit and pump, various perished hoses and rear windscreen for the heater element. £1300 later it is fixed. Still massive play in rear halfshafts but as they haven't actually failed they aren't covered by the warranty.
After this, the warranty company refunded me around £680. I forwarded all info to the dealer to say that the definition of a warranty was that I was not supposed to be out of pocket etc, they have offered me £200 on a take it or leave it basis.
With hindsight after seeing how the vehicle was presented I should have turned it away knowing there would be more issues, but I didn't- it is a lovely looking motor now I've sorted all the tatty bits and I plan to keep it.
It's clear the dealer has no pride, do I fight for reimbursement, cut my losses and take the £200 and leave a truthful review to help the next person or is there another option that doesn't involve tonnes of wasted time and court etc? If they had prepped it properly none of this would have happened.
Thanks,
TC
I don't think the prep would have picked up the fuel tank issue but yes it should have picked up the fuel cap and accelerator, personally I would take the £200 and then leave them an honest review, they may contact you to amend you review for a financial reward, you can then decide if you really want the money or leave the review up.
Actually the £1300 bill was to fix a major fuel leak, sort a broken sender unit and replace a non-working heated screen, and they only actually refunded me half of that. If I'd got anything towards a "refurb" I'd have had the 4 worn out half shafts and drive flanges replaced.
I didn't think it was unreasonable to expect a car to show the fuel level and not pee several litres of diesel over your driveway..?
Based on principles I want to fight it as I would never treat a customer like that, but in reality I don't want to waste too much time claiming a couple of hundred back- hence wondering if there is an easy avenue or not.
I didn't think it was unreasonable to expect a car to show the fuel level and not pee several litres of diesel over your driveway..?
Based on principles I want to fight it as I would never treat a customer like that, but in reality I don't want to waste too much time claiming a couple of hundred back- hence wondering if there is an easy avenue or not.
You're right I couldn't be bothered to view it- that's why I paid over the odds for a car from a dealer with a warranty for peace of mind- obviously that makes me a complete idiot!
How would I have noticed a shagged fuel pipe and seal on the top of the tank by viewing the car in your opinion?
I guess I'm the only person who has ever bought a car without viewing it and carrying out a full overalls on inspection.
How would I have noticed a shagged fuel pipe and seal on the top of the tank by viewing the car in your opinion?
I guess I'm the only person who has ever bought a car without viewing it and carrying out a full overalls on inspection.
stevemcs said:
you can try, you can go to court, you can win in court but they can still drag their heals and not pay you. Personally go with a honest review, it may not give you any cash but it may cost them a couple of sales.
That's the way I see it going, I've never taken anyone to court and don't want to- just frustrating when you've bought based on trust and warranted back up that proves to be rubbish. Next time I'll buy from a private seller and put the difference into my own warranty fund!ClaphamGT3 said:
So, you bought a sixteen year-old Landrover without bothering to inspect it and now you’re whining that Its got things wrong with it?
Rearrange these words into a well known phrase or saying: blame to yourself got only you’ve
Whilst 9/10 of times i would echo this. At the moment. With COVID, i know plenty of dealers that were not allowing inspections. They didn't want people to come view the cars or take them elsewhere. So not out of realms of possibility that over the last 12 months they'd have sold cars and not allowed you to inspect even if you had wanted too. Rearrange these words into a well known phrase or saying: blame to yourself got only you’ve
The distance seller regs are there to protect you in this situation and the dealer should have been very clear to you about what those were. If they don't make it abundantly clear the regs say that you can return a vehicle up to 12 months after sale.
https://www.themotorombudsman.org/distance-sales-f... - quote -
If the retailer doesn’t give you information about your rights under a distance sale at the time of delivery, including your right to cancel the purchase within 14 days, then you’ll have up to 12 months to cancel your order and receive a refund.
So there is possible avenues of recourse if that wasn't the case?
Where 3rd Party warranties are concerned again, 9/10 times i wouldn't say they are worth the paper they are printed on. I had one on an car i bought from a dealer. On the drive home from collecting the car the engine failed. The warranty company was my first call to dig into what would be covered and they said they'd look at the engine but that had to entail me having it removed and delivered to them to be inspected and if they deemed it was due to poor maintenance and age etc. Then it wouldn't be covered - its fundamentally always a loop hole for them to not pay. So luckily you got something out of them. (that was a warranty from a well known TV car personality endorsed company btw). I had a similar issue on a turbo on another car and it was the same thing.
So for my two penneth worth. If they did make the distance regs clear and it was your choice which it could have been, you live and learn. Write and leave your review and i guess just be happy you've got the car sorted and enjoy it going forwards. As annoying as it is, you sometimes just have to be pragmatic about it, not matter how much it gets your goat.
stevekoz said:
Whilst 9/10 of times i would echo this. At the moment. With COVID, i know plenty of dealers that were not allowing inspections. They didn't want people to come view the cars or take them elsewhere. So not out of realms of possibility that over the last 12 months they'd have sold cars and not allowed you to inspect even if you had wanted too.
The distance seller regs are there to protect you in this situation and the dealer should have been very clear to you about what those were. If they don't make it abundantly clear the regs say that you can return a vehicle up to 12 months after sale.
https://www.themotorombudsman.org/distance-sales-f... - quote -
If the retailer doesn’t give you information about your rights under a distance sale at the time of delivery, including your right to cancel the purchase within 14 days, then you’ll have up to 12 months to cancel your order and receive a refund.
So there is possible avenues of recourse if that wasn't the case?
Where 3rd Party warranties are concerned again, 9/10 times i wouldn't say they are worth the paper they are printed on. I had one on an car i bought from a dealer. On the drive home from collecting the car the engine failed. The warranty company was my first call to dig into what would be covered and they said they'd look at the engine but that had to entail me having it removed and delivered to them to be inspected and if they deemed it was due to poor maintenance and age etc. Then it wouldn't be covered - its fundamentally always a loop hole for them to not pay. So luckily you got something out of them. (that was a warranty from a well known TV car personality endorsed company btw). I had a similar issue on a turbo on another car and it was the same thing.
So for my two penneth worth. If they did make the distance regs clear and it was your choice which it could have been, you live and learn. Write and leave your review and i guess just be happy you've got the car sorted and enjoy it going forwards. As annoying as it is, you sometimes just have to be pragmatic about it, not matter how much it gets your goat.
That's very interesting thanks- I had no idea about the 12 month distance regs- they told me about the two week period but typically the issues happened outside that time, and I have since bought several bits of trim etc to tidy it right up. If I knew better I'd have probably not spent a penny on it and considered a return but I'm too far down the "ownership road" now and enjoying using it.The distance seller regs are there to protect you in this situation and the dealer should have been very clear to you about what those were. If they don't make it abundantly clear the regs say that you can return a vehicle up to 12 months after sale.
https://www.themotorombudsman.org/distance-sales-f... - quote -
If the retailer doesn’t give you information about your rights under a distance sale at the time of delivery, including your right to cancel the purchase within 14 days, then you’ll have up to 12 months to cancel your order and receive a refund.
So there is possible avenues of recourse if that wasn't the case?
Where 3rd Party warranties are concerned again, 9/10 times i wouldn't say they are worth the paper they are printed on. I had one on an car i bought from a dealer. On the drive home from collecting the car the engine failed. The warranty company was my first call to dig into what would be covered and they said they'd look at the engine but that had to entail me having it removed and delivered to them to be inspected and if they deemed it was due to poor maintenance and age etc. Then it wouldn't be covered - its fundamentally always a loop hole for them to not pay. So luckily you got something out of them. (that was a warranty from a well known TV car personality endorsed company btw). I had a similar issue on a turbo on another car and it was the same thing.
So for my two penneth worth. If they did make the distance regs clear and it was your choice which it could have been, you live and learn. Write and leave your review and i guess just be happy you've got the car sorted and enjoy it going forwards. As annoying as it is, you sometimes just have to be pragmatic about it, not matter how much it gets your goat.
I always expected to have costs- I've owned 5 Land Rovers previously and am not naive enough to think it would be like owning a modern vehicle, but these "warranty" issues are more than the routine repairs usually considered with Defender ownership.
When I made the purchase the garage was indeed closed to the public, I didn't hound them about an exception for viewing but they made it very clear that remote sales were perfectly normal at least in the current climate.
Far too often people pay over the odds for a car because it's from a dealer with a warranty.
In reality the warranty is often a 2 bob waste of paper and dealers often don't give a stuff.
The average buyer isn't a motoring expert and most don't have an expert mate to go with them either, so we go by what we can see and assume we are covered if things go badly wrong. In most walks of life goods have to be up to scratch from a dealer. In my business for example, boat repairs and sales.
It annoys me how so often car buyers are made to feel like it's their fault. I remember buying one of my first cars, a Suzuki Vitara from a dealer with a £350 (25 years ago) 6 month guarantee, parts and labour. Coolant leaked, oil leaked and the driver's electric window would often stay shut. 5 times the dealer had the car back and said he'd already by the 3rd time lost all profit in it and could help no more. I realise it's not ideal but myself and a friend ''persuaded'' him to refund the money so we could all move on. He did.
In reality the warranty is often a 2 bob waste of paper and dealers often don't give a stuff.
The average buyer isn't a motoring expert and most don't have an expert mate to go with them either, so we go by what we can see and assume we are covered if things go badly wrong. In most walks of life goods have to be up to scratch from a dealer. In my business for example, boat repairs and sales.
It annoys me how so often car buyers are made to feel like it's their fault. I remember buying one of my first cars, a Suzuki Vitara from a dealer with a £350 (25 years ago) 6 month guarantee, parts and labour. Coolant leaked, oil leaked and the driver's electric window would often stay shut. 5 times the dealer had the car back and said he'd already by the 3rd time lost all profit in it and could help no more. I realise it's not ideal but myself and a friend ''persuaded'' him to refund the money so we could all move on. He did.
BroadsRS6 said:
Far too often people pay over the odds for a car because it's from a dealer with a warranty.
In reality the warranty is often a 2 bob waste of paper and dealers often don't give a stuff.
The average buyer isn't a motoring expert and most don't have an expert mate to go with them either, so we go by what we can see and assume we are covered if things go badly wrong. In most walks of life goods have to be up to scratch from a dealer. In my business for example, boat repairs and sales.
It annoys me how so often car buyers are made to feel like it's their fault. I remember buying one of my first cars, a Suzuki Vitara from a dealer with a £350 (25 years ago) 6 month guarantee, parts and labour. Coolant leaked, oil leaked and the driver's electric window would often stay shut. 5 times the dealer had the car back and said he'd already by the 3rd time lost all profit in it and could help no more. I realise it's not ideal but myself and a friend ''persuaded'' him to refund the money so we could all move on. He did.
Similar situation I guess, I buy and sell a fair bit of specific plant equipment and over the years have found that virtually everyone in our industry will stand by their warranty terms or even go beyond for good faith, and this is always self funded- not palmed off to a so called warranty firm.In reality the warranty is often a 2 bob waste of paper and dealers often don't give a stuff.
The average buyer isn't a motoring expert and most don't have an expert mate to go with them either, so we go by what we can see and assume we are covered if things go badly wrong. In most walks of life goods have to be up to scratch from a dealer. In my business for example, boat repairs and sales.
It annoys me how so often car buyers are made to feel like it's their fault. I remember buying one of my first cars, a Suzuki Vitara from a dealer with a £350 (25 years ago) 6 month guarantee, parts and labour. Coolant leaked, oil leaked and the driver's electric window would often stay shut. 5 times the dealer had the car back and said he'd already by the 3rd time lost all profit in it and could help no more. I realise it's not ideal but myself and a friend ''persuaded'' him to refund the money so we could all move on. He did.
I think my generally good experiences over the last 15 years in my industry gave me optimistic expectations when it came to buying this vehicle, I guess that's why the motor trade has a reputation for homing so many unscrupulous dealers!
I just urge people who buy from a dealer with a warranty to check what is actually covered.
Often virtually nothing is, because they rule out anything to do with normal wear and tear (that can be anything from wheel bearings to a turbo) and they aren't interested in anything that was already weak (that can be anything at all virtually as they will say it was a gradual failure over time not a sudden break).
Warranties unless they are factory are generally crap in my experience. Far more bad experiences in this family than good i am afraid.
Often virtually nothing is, because they rule out anything to do with normal wear and tear (that can be anything from wheel bearings to a turbo) and they aren't interested in anything that was already weak (that can be anything at all virtually as they will say it was a gradual failure over time not a sudden break).
Warranties unless they are factory are generally crap in my experience. Far more bad experiences in this family than good i am afraid.
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