What massive jeep?
Discussion
We are on our second XC90 - first was the 185 then we moved to the 200, we've had it 4 years now but the wife wants to change. She uses it daily while I have an i3. We need the 7 seets unfortunately for football / school / family journeys. There are 5 of us plus a golden retriever so the boot space is essential. I don't see the need to change as used prices are crazy at the moment but in order to keep the peace I've started looking at a replacement.
Budget is around £25-£30k, I'm at £25k and the wife is at £30k.
GL350 - a beast of a thing
Discovery 4
Another newer XC90 - hopefully slightly better driving experience than the current one
X5 - boot is small, a nice drive though
Am I missing anything out? I like the GL350 but only recently seen one and not sure about reliability / running costs.
Budget is around £25-£30k, I'm at £25k and the wife is at £30k.
GL350 - a beast of a thing
Discovery 4
Another newer XC90 - hopefully slightly better driving experience than the current one
X5 - boot is small, a nice drive though
Am I missing anything out? I like the GL350 but only recently seen one and not sure about reliability / running costs.
I vote for the GL. I've had one for over 4 years. When it comes to change it, I'll likely buy another one.
I have experience of an earlier V8 petrol XC90, an ML 320CDI, a Disco 3 diesel, a Disco 4 diesel, a slightly modified V8 supercharged L322 RR, three 3-litre diesel Q7s, an X5 4.0D, and an X5 V8 petrol. I haven't owned all of these but I have spent time enough with them to compare and contrast.
They all have their pros and cons but for size, the GL wins. Also for the 4WD system, the Mercs are almost the equal of the Land Rovers.. in terms of strength definitely but even capability in low grip conditions, the Mercs only lose out to the computer control that the Land Rovers have. The Landies are supernatural on ice.
Most powerful engines go to the BMWs but both the Audi and Merc V6 diesels are good.
I like the Land Rovers but they're not as big as the GL. To be fair I only saw a 7-seater Disco 3 and I don't know if they do 7-seats in the D4. The engine in the D3 isn't nearly as good as the D4 in both power or longevity. In fact it's quite underwhelming considering the weight of the car. The Disco 4 is everything the D3 should have been.
I think all GLs have air springs which may need replacing at 80-100K however if you're handy it's completely possible to do it on the drive in one day. You need no specialist tools and you'll save yourself £2K unless you can find a friendly indi garage.
Some GLs have the off road kit which involves under body protection plates and height adjustable springs. I think they all come with diff lockers for the centre and rear, and one American forum member believes there is some sort of LSD in the front diff but I've not been able to confirm that.
For towing, only the Landies and Mercs can pull 3.5 tonnes (legally). Mine pulled a 26 foot twin axle caravan, and (another time) a two horse twin axle trailer without really even noticing they were there.
Overall I love the D4 but the ever-present question of reliability always worries me however the Mercs are not trouble free, BUT they have never stopped me from getting home or to a garage. They don't just die. All three of the Landies here have caused their owners to call for help whilst out.
Finally the Volvo... they're just too small for me but they are nicely built and the V8 was really nice to drive. The rear seats aren't really big enough for adults but then apart from the GL (into which most adults can sit comfortably) and the sideways positioned D3 seats, none of the others have terribly useful third rows. Only one of the X5s had a 3rd row and it was small. The Q7 3rd row is for children only.
With the 3rd row "deployed", none of them have much of a boot to speak of but you can usefully mingle legs and soft luggage with the sideways positioned seats of the D3 and X5. The Q7 loses all but enough space for an envelope with the 3rd row in use, and the GL has about 12-14 inches of boot depth which narrows upwards because of the rake of the seats and the rear tailgate. The GL probably has the most room behind the forward facing 3rd row cars.
Problems with my GL have been:
Exhaust may have been damaged by a former owner. It rattled on idle. Replaced both rear boxes. Then the bracket at the front broke (at 100K miles) but that was actually fixed for free by the Merc dealership.
Injector seals go. A £3 part costs £300 to fit. I've had two done now so the next time one goes, I'll have them do the lot for a combined price of £350. I wish I'd known there was a volume saving the first time and I'd have instructed the dealership accordingly.
Since the 350CDI replaced the 320 the problems with turbos at 120K miles should have been resolved. The 320CDI turbos need replacing but an exchange unit can be had for about £1800 so it's not horrible.
Air springs as said above - about £1500 for parts only (all four) and a day of your life to fit them.
Air con condenser replaced. That may have just been bad luck because our older ML never had such problems.
Now mine does NOT chew through tyres but it's worth noting because I have excessively huge wheels which, on the Q7, eats tyres in about 10K miles. All of the Q7s in my experience did this. One owner even took my advice about deviating from the standard settings to reduce the amount of negative camber on the front yet it still ate the tyres in about the same time (just more evenly rather that just the inner shoulder). I have been left wondering whether there's something wrong with the Ackerman on them (all three are earlier versions).
The BMWs and Audi's drive like cars - the Mercs and Landies like heavy trucks. There's an agility to the former but a sense of solidity about the latter. The wife of one of the X5 owners said my car was like being in a gentleman's country club... it's all leather and wood. It makes them a little old fashioned though. Newer ones are better in this regard and lighter interiors better still although I personally prefer black interiors.
The newer GLs have a vastly improved infotainment system from the older COMAND that mine has. All of the other manufacturers introduced better systems than the Mercs earlier in their model lives.
I can't think of anything else but if you have any questions, fire away.
I have experience of an earlier V8 petrol XC90, an ML 320CDI, a Disco 3 diesel, a Disco 4 diesel, a slightly modified V8 supercharged L322 RR, three 3-litre diesel Q7s, an X5 4.0D, and an X5 V8 petrol. I haven't owned all of these but I have spent time enough with them to compare and contrast.
They all have their pros and cons but for size, the GL wins. Also for the 4WD system, the Mercs are almost the equal of the Land Rovers.. in terms of strength definitely but even capability in low grip conditions, the Mercs only lose out to the computer control that the Land Rovers have. The Landies are supernatural on ice.
Most powerful engines go to the BMWs but both the Audi and Merc V6 diesels are good.
I like the Land Rovers but they're not as big as the GL. To be fair I only saw a 7-seater Disco 3 and I don't know if they do 7-seats in the D4. The engine in the D3 isn't nearly as good as the D4 in both power or longevity. In fact it's quite underwhelming considering the weight of the car. The Disco 4 is everything the D3 should have been.
I think all GLs have air springs which may need replacing at 80-100K however if you're handy it's completely possible to do it on the drive in one day. You need no specialist tools and you'll save yourself £2K unless you can find a friendly indi garage.
Some GLs have the off road kit which involves under body protection plates and height adjustable springs. I think they all come with diff lockers for the centre and rear, and one American forum member believes there is some sort of LSD in the front diff but I've not been able to confirm that.
For towing, only the Landies and Mercs can pull 3.5 tonnes (legally). Mine pulled a 26 foot twin axle caravan, and (another time) a two horse twin axle trailer without really even noticing they were there.
Overall I love the D4 but the ever-present question of reliability always worries me however the Mercs are not trouble free, BUT they have never stopped me from getting home or to a garage. They don't just die. All three of the Landies here have caused their owners to call for help whilst out.
Finally the Volvo... they're just too small for me but they are nicely built and the V8 was really nice to drive. The rear seats aren't really big enough for adults but then apart from the GL (into which most adults can sit comfortably) and the sideways positioned D3 seats, none of the others have terribly useful third rows. Only one of the X5s had a 3rd row and it was small. The Q7 3rd row is for children only.
With the 3rd row "deployed", none of them have much of a boot to speak of but you can usefully mingle legs and soft luggage with the sideways positioned seats of the D3 and X5. The Q7 loses all but enough space for an envelope with the 3rd row in use, and the GL has about 12-14 inches of boot depth which narrows upwards because of the rake of the seats and the rear tailgate. The GL probably has the most room behind the forward facing 3rd row cars.
Problems with my GL have been:
Exhaust may have been damaged by a former owner. It rattled on idle. Replaced both rear boxes. Then the bracket at the front broke (at 100K miles) but that was actually fixed for free by the Merc dealership.
Injector seals go. A £3 part costs £300 to fit. I've had two done now so the next time one goes, I'll have them do the lot for a combined price of £350. I wish I'd known there was a volume saving the first time and I'd have instructed the dealership accordingly.
Since the 350CDI replaced the 320 the problems with turbos at 120K miles should have been resolved. The 320CDI turbos need replacing but an exchange unit can be had for about £1800 so it's not horrible.
Air springs as said above - about £1500 for parts only (all four) and a day of your life to fit them.
Air con condenser replaced. That may have just been bad luck because our older ML never had such problems.
Now mine does NOT chew through tyres but it's worth noting because I have excessively huge wheels which, on the Q7, eats tyres in about 10K miles. All of the Q7s in my experience did this. One owner even took my advice about deviating from the standard settings to reduce the amount of negative camber on the front yet it still ate the tyres in about the same time (just more evenly rather that just the inner shoulder). I have been left wondering whether there's something wrong with the Ackerman on them (all three are earlier versions).
The BMWs and Audi's drive like cars - the Mercs and Landies like heavy trucks. There's an agility to the former but a sense of solidity about the latter. The wife of one of the X5 owners said my car was like being in a gentleman's country club... it's all leather and wood. It makes them a little old fashioned though. Newer ones are better in this regard and lighter interiors better still although I personally prefer black interiors.
The newer GLs have a vastly improved infotainment system from the older COMAND that mine has. All of the other manufacturers introduced better systems than the Mercs earlier in their model lives.
I can't think of anything else but if you have any questions, fire away.
I’d go Disco 4 and I have one. More reliable than the D3 I had before and a better engine and gearbox. Mistake people make is in thinking they should cost the same as a Fiesta to run. They don’t, they are heavy, complex cars but service them regularly and they are fine, all the weaknesses are known and can be fixed. E.g the plastic intake manifolds are weak and can split, the new ones are made of thicker material, cost to replace them is about £750 per side. Lower arms need replacing at 100k, same as the cam and fuel pump belt. Gearboxes are strong but you need to replace the oil at 70k to keep them that way. Electronics on the D4 are pretty good and the air compressor that plagued the D3 was redesigned. For that money you should get a nice 8 speed HSE.
Both D3 and D4 are proper 7 seaters but the luggage space is small with all of the seats up. Put all the seats down and it turns into a van.
Both D3 and D4 are proper 7 seaters but the luggage space is small with all of the seats up. Put all the seats down and it turns into a van.
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 19th July 19:54
I take it that you've got a Gen 1 XC90. The Gen 2 (SPA) is lovely thing if you can live with 4 cylinder only power.
If you're only doing short distances you can get petrol or hybrid versions for your money.
E.g. a Twin engined version with electric only for around time, and 400 bhp for when you want to get places.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106264...
If you're only doing short distances you can get petrol or hybrid versions for your money.
E.g. a Twin engined version with electric only for around time, and 400 bhp for when you want to get places.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106264...
GL for me, but hunt out a 450 V8 diesel rather than the V6. You'll be paying the full Tax either way so might as well go for it. Possibly loose 1 or 2 mpg with the V8 but never ever feels underpowered.
Also generally better spec'd inside with real leather rather than Mercedes "leather". H&K logic 7 sound system is also worth getting if you can.
Had mine 3 years now and other than having to replace the Air springs as said above and the rear diff lock motor failing (£600 part. ouch) it's been very reliable.
Also generally better spec'd inside with real leather rather than Mercedes "leather". H&K logic 7 sound system is also worth getting if you can.
Had mine 3 years now and other than having to replace the Air springs as said above and the rear diff lock motor failing (£600 part. ouch) it's been very reliable.
Here's my tuppence worth........
We leased a D4 Landmark - the final run-out edition for a couple of years, it was excellent, never put a foot wrong and came fully loaded with everything anyone could wish for really, including head rest mounted rear screens, TV etc. We chose it due to its huge boot space ( in 5 seat mode) as we have a 15 stone ( 93Kg) St Bernard, he had plenty of space both on the floor and height wise. The split tailgate, air suspension and huge rear window were great - he particularly liked window shape as he could lie down and just lift his head slightly to see out, without having to exert to much effort - The wife loved it too!
To be fair though, due to having fingers burned by landcover dealers customer service/reliability in previously owned land rovers I spent those 2 years just waiting for something to go wrong - nothing did, well part from the servicing dealer still being crap that is.
The D4 was replaced by an XC90 R-Design Pro which again was excellent, it was our first Volvo and I was very well impressed, dog loved it too, despite the boot height not being as high as D4 but overall space was plenty - wife wasn't token on it though, didn't like the gizmos like adaptive steering thing and radar controlled braking/cruise control
After 2 years the XC90 was replaced by a new 110 defender, car's great but boot space is not anywhere near as good as D4 or XC90 - we wanted to try the Mercedes GLS but was impossible as all our nearest dealers didn't open on a Sunday then, the wife didn't fancy the X7 - I thought it was really good
The Defender was best priced, and the dealership was excellent
We leased a D4 Landmark - the final run-out edition for a couple of years, it was excellent, never put a foot wrong and came fully loaded with everything anyone could wish for really, including head rest mounted rear screens, TV etc. We chose it due to its huge boot space ( in 5 seat mode) as we have a 15 stone ( 93Kg) St Bernard, he had plenty of space both on the floor and height wise. The split tailgate, air suspension and huge rear window were great - he particularly liked window shape as he could lie down and just lift his head slightly to see out, without having to exert to much effort - The wife loved it too!
To be fair though, due to having fingers burned by landcover dealers customer service/reliability in previously owned land rovers I spent those 2 years just waiting for something to go wrong - nothing did, well part from the servicing dealer still being crap that is.
The D4 was replaced by an XC90 R-Design Pro which again was excellent, it was our first Volvo and I was very well impressed, dog loved it too, despite the boot height not being as high as D4 but overall space was plenty - wife wasn't token on it though, didn't like the gizmos like adaptive steering thing and radar controlled braking/cruise control
After 2 years the XC90 was replaced by a new 110 defender, car's great but boot space is not anywhere near as good as D4 or XC90 - we wanted to try the Mercedes GLS but was impossible as all our nearest dealers didn't open on a Sunday then, the wife didn't fancy the X7 - I thought it was really good
The Defender was best priced, and the dealership was excellent
I’d probably pick the GL, really great cars if a little huge!, XC90 is also really nice.
Cayenne S diesel maybe but it’s not as big as a D4 or GL.
L405 Range Rover?, it’s got the GL beaten on interior imo and will be a fair bit better if you need to go off road but in honesty who’s going to take a huge £30k SUV off road, and reliability would be more of a worry than the Merc.
Cayenne S diesel maybe but it’s not as big as a D4 or GL.
L405 Range Rover?, it’s got the GL beaten on interior imo and will be a fair bit better if you need to go off road but in honesty who’s going to take a huge £30k SUV off road, and reliability would be more of a worry than the Merc.
Thread resurrection alert!!
Just bought a Gl350 after having my Viano written off.
I wanted to keep to the same budget so a x166 was too much of a stretch without moon mileage. Therefore I have a 2011 x164 AMG styling pack.
I did consider a LR of some description but seeing as the other half fancies a Velar I decided to go Merc.
Only had a couple of days. It s a good spec with off-road pack and extended leather inside plus the AMG bits of course.
Really happpy with interior quality. Looks almost like new. The leather is very good supple but thick. Not cheap feeling at all.
No worn buttons etc
Sunroof control seems a bit flaky both in feel and operation. Seems to go from one extreme to the other without stopping in the closed position. Unless I intervene.
Slight knock from drivers front. Was Mot d on day of collecting so Im hoping just a drop link or similar.
Main point of note is the vague steering just off centre. It has the variable rack but does feel unresponsive until some lock is applied.
I m think (hoping)it s just a relaxed set up
Needs a very good polish but that’s fine. Already started on the headlights!
Anyway fingers crossed it doesn t bite me too soon
Just bought a Gl350 after having my Viano written off.
I wanted to keep to the same budget so a x166 was too much of a stretch without moon mileage. Therefore I have a 2011 x164 AMG styling pack.
I did consider a LR of some description but seeing as the other half fancies a Velar I decided to go Merc.
Only had a couple of days. It s a good spec with off-road pack and extended leather inside plus the AMG bits of course.
Really happpy with interior quality. Looks almost like new. The leather is very good supple but thick. Not cheap feeling at all.
No worn buttons etc
Sunroof control seems a bit flaky both in feel and operation. Seems to go from one extreme to the other without stopping in the closed position. Unless I intervene.
Slight knock from drivers front. Was Mot d on day of collecting so Im hoping just a drop link or similar.
Main point of note is the vague steering just off centre. It has the variable rack but does feel unresponsive until some lock is applied.
I m think (hoping)it s just a relaxed set up
Needs a very good polish but that’s fine. Already started on the headlights!
Anyway fingers crossed it doesn t bite me too soon
Edited by milu on Friday 1st May 07:05
I've had a 2010 GL450 for almost 8 years now. When I was first looking I test drove a few GLs and most had really vague steering, test drove mine and it felt so much better but did only have about 60k on it. Over the years that feel gradually deteriorated to the point it started to feel like the others I test drove the car is still only on 80k but any heavy car will wear the suspension bushes.
Last year I set about a full frontend refresh, every suspension bush replaced with genuine Mercedes bushes, apart for the rear one on the lower arm which I went aftermarket as Mercedes only sell it with the lower arm at about £400 each. Less than £500 of parts and a steady weekends work, all done without the need for a press, just a cheep Ebay bush removal kit and a large vice. Car is totally transformed and drives like new again.
Last year I set about a full frontend refresh, every suspension bush replaced with genuine Mercedes bushes, apart for the rear one on the lower arm which I went aftermarket as Mercedes only sell it with the lower arm at about £400 each. Less than £500 of parts and a steady weekends work, all done without the need for a press, just a cheep Ebay bush removal kit and a large vice. Car is totally transformed and drives like new again.
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