Most pleasure, least pain: A6 4.2 V8 or 545i or E350 CGI?

[RoVoFob]

I seem to have become a serial car swapper and am looking to change my car again. I’ve very much enjoyed the torque and comfort of my current 54-plate S60 T5 and it drives far better than I expected, but I do miss having an estate and I’m not a fan of turbocharged engines - as impressed as I am with the T5’s 2.4-litre…

So, the wish list is:

• Big engine that is enjoyable to use (no four-pots, preferably no turbos)
• Big boot with hatchback (I’m thinking estate unless anyone can suggest a non-estate that ticks the other boxes)
• Ideally manual, but realise I will probably have to settle for an auto. If so, it has to be good - smooth and responsive
• Ideally tax of £340 or less (so pre April 06 and/or sub-225g/km CO2 emissions), unless the car is phenomenal
• Decent speakers/optional speakers
• Ideally AWD or rear-wheel drive
• Ideally would have standard-fit rear Isofix
• Ideally sub-£5k. Maybe up to £6k…

What I really want is a manual B8 Audi S4 Avant with B&O speakers and sports diff, but that’s out of budget for now. Also tempted by the B7 S4 4.2 V8, but most of these are out of budget, too.

So the main things that are jumping out to me are:

• BMW 545i Touring (2004-2006 E61)
• Audi A6 Avant 4.2 V8 (2005-2006 C6, non-FSI engine)
• Mercedes E350/E350 CGI Estate (S211)

Which of these is likely to be the most enjoyable (comfy, satisfying to drive with a nice sounding engine, if not sporty), with the least chance of numerous four-figure bills?

The B7 S4 has timing chain issues, as does the A6 (I think they have identical engines, though I’m not sure) and the E350 (does this affect the CGI versions, too?). I know the 545i has its issues too. Does anyone have a feel for which is likely to be the most enjoyable to live with and offers the lowest chance of big bills? Also, is there any particular kit to avoid - like air suspension?

I’ve done the sensible V70 and Legacy Spec B options, and while I’d happily have both again, I fancy something different this time…

Thanks!

[Magikarp]

Try an S211 E500. I’ve had nothing but simple guffaws of pleasure with mine. No issues, or problems with air suspension, tracking, or brakes in any way at all.

Oh, hold on.

[RoVoFob]

Magikarp said:

Try an S211 E500. I’ve had nothing but simple guffaws of pleasure with mine. No issues, or problems with air suspension, tracking, or brakes in any way at all.

Oh, hold on.

‘Guffaws of pleasure’ sound like fun.

How big were the issues? My understanding is the 2006-on versions are much more reliable…

[iacabu]

I'll be following this, as these exact cars are all on my list. I thought the S4 would be comfortably within budget now but they seem to have firmed up a bit.

My perfect car right now (at least this week) is an x5 4.8is. There's a lovely one on eBay but unfortunately it's too heavy for me to tow with on my licence and the bills scare me.

A bit of a left field choice for you, there's quite a nice (some might say chavvy) Skoda Superb 3.6 for sale at the moment.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Skoda-Superb-3-6-V6-Ele...

[daveco]

As much as I like the BMW E60 545, I'd steer clear of that engine.

If you can find one, try test driving a 530i - it's not much slower, more reliable, and an absolute peach of an engine.

[greenarrow]

daveco said:

As much as I like the BMW E60 545, I'd steer clear of that engine.

If you can find one, try test driving a 530i - it's not much slower, more reliable, and an absolute peach of an engine.

100% agree, a very good friend of mine spent about £7,000 on repairs to his 645CI. Was an absolutely nightmare of a car - avoid like the plague! The 530i from 2007? onwards makes 270BHP I think so as you say, not really that much slower.

[J4CKO]

When you are into that realm, try not to get hung up on the VED aspect too much, as these cars can throw up bills that make a 200 quid saving over the year negligible.

[Deranged Rover]

Magikarp said:

Try an S211 E500. I’ve had nothing but simple guffaws of pleasure with mine. No issues, or problems with air suspension, tracking, or brakes in any way at all.

Oh, hold on.

Yeah right. My W211 was a lowly E200K and that still threw up some pretty impressive bills for just standard maintenance!

Ironically, though, I'd still pick the Merc from the OP's list. At least the later E Class doesn't have a feckin' SBC pump...

[mikes2w]

For a left field choice

VW Passat W8 estate.

Ticks most of the boxes except the gearbox which is auto

[FNG]

I'd been in a similar quandary but on a lower budget (3 grand, E38 v8 or A8 D2 v8 or W140 S-Class) and concluded that a VW Phaeton was worth a look. FWD though I believe? Honda Legend is in the same bracket. A lot cheaper for FWD but I felt that if you're in a barge of a car, the drivetrain is very much secondary to the comfort level and engine noise as that's what they all major on. You're not buying anything bigger than an S4 for its agility or handling or steering finesse, really.

Dunno if that's any use whatsoever - probably not

[g3org3y]

As has been mentioned, you need to go into buying an N62 V8 BMW with your eyes open. Regular oil changes in the SH important. Budget for valve stem seals as a 'when' rather than 'if'. That's not to mention the various leaky bits that can haemorrhage money on a regular basis. Otherwise decent enough engine.

E60/1 is fairly robust and most issues are known about. Some owners have suffered with electrical issues. I have an E63 630i (E60 in drag basically) and that has been fine and quite problem free. Watch the spec on the E60s, when compared to equivalent E63s, they are a bit miserly and a lot of the decent stuff was optional.

iacabu said:

My perfect car right now (at least this week) is an x5 4.8is. There's a lovely one on eBay but unfortunately it's too heavy for me to tow with on my licence and the bills scare me.

Good choice Have that engine in my E70.


[/biased]

greenarrow said:

daveco said:

As much as I like the BMW E60 545, I'd steer clear of that engine.

If you can find one, try test driving a 530i - it's not much slower, more reliable, and an absolute peach of an engine.

100% agree, a very good friend of mine spent about £7,000 on repairs to his 645CI. Was an absolutely nightmare of a car - avoid like the plague! The 530i from 2007? onwards makes 270BHP I think so as you say, not really that much slower.

An E61 530i is a very decent car but not very common (especially with a good spec).

Early engines = N52 which is reliable, watch out for expensive waterpumps. Later engines = N53 which have niggles with HPFP and the injectors.

J4CKO said:

When you are into that realm, try not to get hung up on the VED aspect too much, as these cars can throw up bills that make a 200 quid saving over the year negligible.

Agreed.

Edited by g3org3y on Wednesday 18th August 10:52

[Monkeylegend]

The earlier Merc 3.5 litre engines have balancer shaft issues up to mid 2007 I think. The Merc forums have this well documented and you can get a list of engine nos affected and the various issues relating to this.

A small part cost with much labour cost so be careful if you buy one of the earlier engines with no evidence of it being addressed.

[RoVoFob]

iacabu said:

I'll be following this, as these exact cars are all on my list. I thought the S4 would be comfortably within budget now but they seem to have firmed up a bit.

My perfect car right now (at least this week) is an x5 4.8is. There's a lovely one on eBay but unfortunately it's too heavy for me to tow with on my licence and the bills scare me.

A bit of a left field choice for you, there's quite a nice (some might say chavvy) Skoda Superb 3.6 for sale at the moment.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Skoda-Superb-3-6-V6-Ele...

Yes, it’s annoying how S4 prices have gone up this year! Especially when I’d want to budget for potential chain issues, too, which could be £3k+.

Had daydreamed about the X5 previously, but the fact it has even more to go wrong and weighs about 450kg more than a V8 A6 Avant is sheer madness!

Thanks. I had thought about the Superb - and that specific one. Like the idea of it, but the reviews make it sound like it’s not that comfy or sporty, and £600 tax for something that is the sensible choice would sting!

[RoVoFob]

daveco said:

As much as I like the BMW E60 545, I'd steer clear of that engine.

If you can find one, try test driving a 530i - it's not much slower, more reliable, and an absolute peach of an engine.

I had read that the 545i engine is problematic, which put me off previously. The only reason I’ve been mulling it over is that there’s a £3,500 one up for sale at the moment, which seems like very good value. Think it was listed previously and had some mechanical issues at the time. Can’t for the life of me remember what they were, though…

Your logic makes perfect sense, but as I also have a 130i, I can’t bring myself to have a 400kg heavier car with the same engine! Maybe an E61 isn’t for me…

[RoVoFob]

greenarrow said:

100% agree, a very good friend of mine spent about £7,000 on repairs to his 645CI. Was an absolutely nightmare of a car - avoid like the plague! The 530i from 2007? onwards makes 270BHP I think so as you say, not really that much slower.

Thanks. It’s off the list. I don’t mind paying a premium for a decent car/well looked after model, but big, unexpected bills - no thanks.

I have a RWD 3.0-litre N52-engined BMW already, so another N52/N53 would seem like overkill! Hence why I’m tempted by V6/V8 Audis with AWD for a different driving experience…

[RoVoFob]

J4CKO said:

When you are into that realm, try not to get hung up on the VED aspect too much, as these cars can throw up bills that make a 200 quid saving over the year negligible.

Very good point.

Call me paranoid, but apart from not wanting to pay more tax than is needed, I fear that the government could dramatically increase road tax and it would be the top band that is penalised most…I would worry a little about spiralling road tax costs or being stuck with a car that’s impossible to sell.

If a car is interesting enough to warrant the cost, however, I may just choose to ignore that concern!

[J4CKO]

RoVoFob said:

J4CKO said:

When you are into that realm, try not to get hung up on the VED aspect too much, as these cars can throw up bills that make a 200 quid saving over the year negligible.

Very good point.

Call me paranoid, but apart from not wanting to pay more tax than is needed, I fear that the government could dramatically increase road tax and it would be the top band that is penalised most…I would worry a little about spiralling road tax costs or being stuck with a car that’s impossible to sell.

If a car is interesting enough to warrant the cost, however, I may just choose to ignore that concern!

Yeah, may as well get caught for a sheep as a lamb, that's the spirit !

I do appreciate what you mean, but it can be like going for a Burger Eating challenge and having a Diet Coke

That said, I had a CLS 500 and it really wasn't that ruinous, 540 the VED was at the time but don't regret a penny of it, had it for a couple of years, enjoyed it and moved on having done the big wafty barge thing.

[RoVoFob]

Deranged Rover said:

Yeah right. My W211 was a lowly E200K and that still threw up some pretty impressive bills for just standard maintenance!

Ironically, though, I'd still pick the Merc from the OP's list. At least the later E Class doesn't have a feckin' SBC pump...

Hmm, that doesn’t bode well. Why do you rate the E-Class so much if you had hassle with yours?

[RoVoFob]

mikes2w said:

For a left field choice

VW Passat W8 estate.

Ticks most of the boxes except the gearbox which is auto

Discovered this a week back and that sound is enormously appealing! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOyJhG9WzdE

Would be worried about parts availability and I think Merc or Audi alternatives make more sense on performance, handling and interior fronts. Would love to try a manual one, though…

[RoVoFob]

FNG said:

I'd been in a similar quandary but on a lower budget (3 grand, E38 v8 or A8 D2 v8 or W140 S-Class) and concluded that a VW Phaeton was worth a look. FWD though I believe? Honda Legend is in the same bracket. A lot cheaper for FWD but I felt that if you're in a barge of a car, the drivetrain is very much secondary to the comfort level and engine noise as that's what they all major on. You're not buying anything bigger than an S4 for its agility or handling or steering finesse, really.

Dunno if that's any use whatsoever - probably not

Are you using ‘FWD’ to mean four-wheel drive? The Phaeton was available in front-wheel drive form as well, I think. Was only something like the 3.2 V6 that didn’t get all-wheel drive.

Big cars don’t have to be agile, but that doesn’t mean they can’t be. Drove a Bentayga W12 a few years back and was amazed at how drivable that was. Great fun whizzing between and around Milton Keynes roundabouts. Managed 32mpg from it on a 50-mile trip, too.

[Goes to check how many Bentayga W12s are available for less than £5k…]