Dealership "sold as seen" type comments

[mjf1]

I am currently looking at the cheaper end of the market as I basically need 4 wheels and 5 doors until I decide which car I actually want. This has resulted in finding various cars advertised by dealerships which state something like

"This is a customer part exchange to clear vehicle - Trade sale only - No warranty implied - Sold as seen - No returns"

The type of dealers that have these comments usually also have various negative reviews from people who bought faulty cars and then found that the dealer would take absolutely no responsiblity. I don't know how much thought to give the dealer reviews on Autotrader but they must come from somewhere.

Now forgive me if I am missing something but I was under the impression that a dealership had to abide by things such as the Consumer Rights Act or Sale of Goods Act, as per https://www.themotorombudsman.org/knowledge-base/c...

"Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, if the vehicle is found to be defective, based on your first tier of rights, you may request within the first 30 days of purchase;

The rejection of the vehicle in return for a full purchase refund; or
For the trader to repair the vehicle; or
For the trader to replace the car like-for-like."

Is it legal for them to advertise cars and completely contravene government legislation by making statements like "no warranty" or "sold as seen"?

This is pushing me towards buying privately to get a cheaper car, which may go wrong, but at least I won't have to try and convince some dodgy backstreet dealership to fix it for me. Thoughts?

[PistonRings]

You will still have your rights, however the dealer is likely to be a pita and not worth giving your money to for a potential runaround afterwards if there is a fault.

Use your noggin, find a trustworthy dealer with a clean, mechanically decent car etc

[CarCrazyDad]

mjf1 said:

Is it legal for them to advertise cars and completely contravene government legislation by making statements like "no warranty" or "sold as seen"?

No.

[Piersman2]

The replies above are true enough, but ask yourself... are you a Trader? Why would you be looking at cars being sold as "Trade Only" if not a trader yourself or willing to accept that as a condition as sale?

An advert saying Trade Sale only tells you everything you need to know, the car probably has multiple issues and is being sold off cheap for that reason. The seller is not going to 'honour' any kind of post sale come back and is being upfront and telling you in the advert.

If you're not looking for that kind of deal, move on the the other thousands of cars being sold.

[Save Ferris]

There’s no legal requirement to provide a warranty on a used car, so advertising a car without one is fine.

[The Rotrex Kid]

Piersman2 said:

The replies above are true enough, but ask yourself... are you a Trader? Why would you be looking at cars being sold as "Trade Only" if not a trader yourself or willing to accept that as a condition as sale?

An advert saying Trade Sale only tells you everything you need to know, the car probably has multiple issues and is being sold off cheap for that reason. The seller is not going to 'honour' any kind of post sale come back and is being upfront and telling you in the advert.

If you're not looking for that kind of deal, move on the the other thousands of cars being sold.

Absolutely this. Buying from these people then moaning when something goes wrong is akin to complaining a tiger bit too after climbing into the cage, over the barbed wire past the ‘stay away from the tigers, they will bite you’ sign.

Buy privately and do your research if you have a limited budget.

[Ian Geary]

Save Ferris said:

There’s no legal requirement to provide a warranty on a used car, so advertising a car without one is fine.

I think sellers often conflate and confuse warranty with the CRA obligations.

In this case, the poster is referring to their statutory rights from the CRA 2015.

As a non lawyer, I didn't think it was possible to sign away your consumer rights as part of a transaction. But that is exactly what the sellers are proposing you do, and I can see their point.

They're basically expecting the car to be sold on a trade to trade basis, not a trade to private basis.

It does seem odd for a private buyer to expect CRA / private buyer protection when paying trade prices though, and presumably a magistrate would take account of this were a private buyer of a car advertised as trade ever try and recoup losses via small claims

[steveo3002]

buy private if you want a cheapie

the dealer experience and extra costs should make it somewhat carefree if something goes wrong , these low end places that are putting up sold as seen wont play ball if it blows up , law might say they have to but chances are they wont , so dont pay the extra % for no extra service

[Matt_E_Mulsion]

Unfortunately the same legislation applies to the trader punting out bangers at a few hundred quid exactly the same as the glass palace selling cars at tens of thousands.

This in itself is not a problem until Karen buys a £500 Corsa and expects it to be as good as the one elsewhere at £12,000.

She thinks that her consumer rights allow her to demand that every tiny indiscretion and bit of wear and tear is fixed regardless of the fact that the car is worth maybe 10% of what it was new.

Although it's wrong, I can see why traders at the bottom end of the market try to pass vehicles off as sold as seen with no comeback. Where the bottom end finishes and the 'better' cars start, well that's a bit blurry.

[Jasandjules]

I would avoid any dealership that said any such thing, it is just not worth the hassle.

[CarCrazyDad]

Save Ferris said:

There’s no legal requirement to provide a warranty on a used car, so advertising a car without one is fine.

Not as such, but if you are familiar with various consumer protection laws, any fault within 6 months is deemed to be present at time of sale on a car that's sold by a trader to a member of the public, as such, you could theoretically and very legally at 5 months , 3 weeks and 6 days have your engine blow up and that would then be the dealers responsibility

Of course, that doesn't mean the dealer will (or should) help, but that is the law

So EFFECTIVELY cars have a 6 month warranty

Traders have been constantly dodging this by supplying typically 3 month warranties (via a 3rd-party company such as AA or WarrantyWise) and after 6 weeks when your gearbox blows up, they simply refer you to the warranty company who won't cover it because it wasn't serviced / it's too old / too many miles / a previously reported problem etc

[anonymous-user]

it is greed, the dealership could sell trade, auction etc, but know they will get more selling as ''trade'' to the public.

[Pica-Pica]

Only buy like that for (visibly OK) spares.

[Sheepshanks]

CarCrazyDad said:

Not as such, but if you are familiar with various consumer protection laws, any fault within 6 months is deemed to be present at time of sale on a car that's sold by a trader to a member of the public, as such, you could theoretically and very legally at 5 months , 3 weeks and 6 days have your engine blow up and that would then be the dealers responsibility

Of course, that doesn't mean the dealer will (or should) help, but that is the law

So EFFECTIVELY cars have a 6 month warranty

It's a common misconception, but doesn't mean that at all.

Dealer 'just' has to prove the fault wasn't present at the time of sale. Dealer should have a check list to show it was fine, and the fact that the buyer was able to drive it without problem for some period would indicate that it was fine at the time of sale.

[CarCrazyDad]

Sheepshanks said:

CarCrazyDad said:

Not as such, but if you are familiar with various consumer protection laws, any fault within 6 months is deemed to be present at time of sale on a car that's sold by a trader to a member of the public, as such, you could theoretically and very legally at 5 months , 3 weeks and 6 days have your engine blow up and that would then be the dealers responsibility

Of course, that doesn't mean the dealer will (or should) help, but that is the law

So EFFECTIVELY cars have a 6 month warranty

It's a common misconception, but doesn't mean that at all.

Dealer 'just' has to prove the fault wasn't present at the time of sale. Dealer should have a check list to show it was fine, and the fact that the buyer was able to drive it without problem for some period would indicate that it was fine at the time of sale.

Doesn't quite work like that, a part could be working but failing

[Sheepshanks]

CarCrazyDad said:

Doesn't quite work like that, a part could be working but failing

Yes. Note that failing isn't failed.

[voram]

A dealer can't make a trade sale to the general public.

A dealer CAN make a trade sale to your local second hand car lot because they are in the trade.

If a member of the public turns up to buy the car and the sale contract contains a term saying "buyer warrants that he's a trader" then don't assume you've got consumer rights!

[voram]

Just to add - if a car is advertised "no MOT, sold for spares and repairs only" you'll struggle to get any consumer rights. Essentially the seller is saying "here's a bucket of old parts" not "here's a car".

[Save Ferris]

CarCrazyDad said:

Save Ferris said:

There’s no legal requirement to provide a warranty on a used car, so advertising a car without one is fine.

Not as such, but if you are familiar with various consumer protection laws, any fault within 6 months is deemed to be present at time of sale on a car that's sold by a trader to a member of the public, as such, you could theoretically and very legally at 5 months , 3 weeks and 6 days have your engine blow up and that would then be the dealers responsibility

Of course, that doesn't mean the dealer will (or should) help, but that is the law

So EFFECTIVELY cars have a 6 month warranty

Traders have been constantly dodging this by supplying typically 3 month warranties (via a 3rd-party company such as AA or WarrantyWise) and after 6 weeks when your gearbox blows up, they simply refer you to the warranty company who won't cover it because it wasn't serviced / it's too old / too many miles / a previously reported problem etc

Yes it is as such, and Yes I am aware of the appropriate legislation.

It doesn’t change the fact that a dealer is under no obligation to provide a warranty on a car.

[Deep Thought]

Save Ferris said:

There’s no legal requirement to provide a warranty on a used car, so advertising a car without one is fine.

I dont think thats the issue in question - its the "sold as seen", "trade sale only" and "no returns" thats questionable.