Replacing one car with two - what cars

[Crispy Pigeon]

Hi guys

I currently drive a leased Peugeot 3008 GT Line Premium, mostly because my wife wants a SUV to ferry her and our two small kids around. I like it well enough: it's comfortable and has all the tech, but it's a bit 'meh' to drive and I have a low attention span. I've wanted something a bit more exciting and sporty, but living in London never felt able to justify it.

I'm starting a new job with better pay in a couple of months and the Peugeot goes back next February, so it's time to review our motoring needs and I'm starting to look at new cars. Inspired by a couple of threads here, I'm thinking of replacing the new 3008 with two used cars and seeing if we enjoy the experience more. The additional tax and insurance is something of an extravagance, but you only live once I guess. My only real criticism of the Peugeot is that it's (1) boring to drive; and (2) we could do with more rear legroom and boot space for longer trips.

I've always wanted a convertible and was thinking of getting a fun 4-seater convertible that we could use for family trips out and I could have as a weekend toy. I was looking at something like a convertible Merc CLK or E series, BMW 420, Mini convertible or similar. 4 seats is essential and preferably something reliable, low-tax, ULEZ-compliant and petrol - performance is a plus, but a secondary criterion. Something relatively safe with Isofix rear seats for the kids is also pretty essential.

To keep my wife happy (essential part of this plan), I was then thinking of buying a 5 or 7-seater SUV / crossover with lots of boot space and legroom for use on family trips overnight. I was thinking of something like an old Volvo XC90 or Jeep Grand Cherokee. Safety and reliability are key, but otherwise not too bothered and it would only be used for boring trips cruising on the motorway, etc.

I'm not actually sure about budget, but was thinking of spending something like £20k total - perhaps £15k on the fun car and £5k on the SUV shed. We only do about 5,000 miles a year, so I find it hard to justify a lot more than that. I'd probably be prepared to go up to about £30k total, but only if the cars came with relatively modest depreciation, tax, insurance and maintenance costs; I don't mind having capital tied up in the vehicles that can be recovered on a sale (especially if we decide we don't like this two-car configuration), but 'spending' lots on dead money in the form of the foregoing is less acceptable to me.

Thanks in advance for any advice on this plan or suggestions on which cars to go for.

[voram]

4-seat convertibles are brilliant for your kind of use but I think when they get as big as, say, an E-class they just look too big and cumbersome. I'd go for one of the more compact ones.

However, you need to check the luggage space very carefully. If it's an only car you may find there isn't a prayer of ever going anywhere with "four people and luggage".

If you need luggage space the Merc estates with "panoramic roof" might be worth a look.

[anonymous-user]

Never underestimate how unpleasant sitting in the back of a convertible with the roof down is. I suspect your children will start to find it uncomfortable within 30 seconds. Also I suspect your wife will hate being a passenger after a similar amount of time once her hair starts to get messed up and blows around her face.

Personally when I had one I only enjoyed it when I was on my own and the weather was the right temperature which was a handful of times a year.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 23 August 16:31

[23.7]

An elderly Volvo or jeep will always need something fixing. Bare that in mind.

As others have said family will hate roof down most of the time. The right day, right weather, right road sublime. But few and far between.

I love my SL, but mostly just me.

I'd spend the lions share of your budget on the family car. Your convertible should be the older cheaper, can spend time off the road being fixed, park up in the winter kinda car.

[TurboHatchback]

I would get a small lightweight two-seater convertible just for you and a big boring luxobarge for the family. An ND MX5 and a Skoda Superb estate for example.

[ZX10R NIN]

Firstly that's a nice healthy budget, secondly do not skimp on the wife's car you will never hear the end of it if you're sitting in 15k's worth of convertible & she has a 5k car.

So with this in mind I'd go down the following route, get yourself an E Coupe with the Pano sunroof, you get all the benefits of having a convertible (with all the windows dropped away & the roof open) with none of the downsides in terms of luggage space, so you wont have to take the SUV when you go out.

E Coupe

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106193...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108216...

If you can live without the roof, all the windows still drop away:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108136...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202101208...

Or an Infiniti G37 Coupe

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108216...

Then I'd put the OH in one of these, they're loaded with spec/kit & you can add a simple bit of kit to add Android Auto/Apple Carplay into the mix so that will keep her happy.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108166...

You can get the bigger FX but it'll be in diesel form & although it's ULEZ compliant you're journey type doesn't seem suited.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202105132...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108075...

The best part is that they're all the options above ULEZ/CAZ compliant

[georgeyboy12345]

Interesting challenge!

Fun 4-seater convertibles

BMW E46 M3 - last chance to buy before these go silly money I reckon, it's a manual with a hard top too
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106234...

Stretching the budget for something a bit newer - BMW 428i
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107054...

BMW 220i - might be a bit tight in the back!
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106103...


Boring SUVs - ULEZ compliant, hopefully reliable, not *too* bad on tax

Nissan Qashqai 1.6 dCi
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202103029...

Lexus RX400h
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108106...

Honda CR-V 2.0 i-VTEC
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108055...

[DKL]

One of the best 4 seat soft tops would be an e500 4.7tt. But they are rare and don't come up often.
Usually around 16k and with 435bhp as stock and an easy 500+ available with minor mods if you are that way inclined. I'd love one.

[georgeyboy12345]

Alternatively, instead of messing about with the expense of having to buy and run two cars, you could have one that is both practical and fun to drive, e.g.

BMW 335d xDrive
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107104...

Audi S6 Avant
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107205...

Volvo V60 T6 Polestar
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107275...


One worry living near London though would be that these cars are very attractive to criminally-inclined types.

[edc]

Isofix is no more safe than a belted child car seat. How old are your children? If they are in extended rear facing seats up to age circa 7 then space will be very tight in a 4 seater convertible. Then you have to contend with the mostly 3 door configuration.

I would just get a £10k Cmax or Touran rather than an SUV.

[Crispy Pigeon]

Thank you all for the collective wisdom, which has been very useful to shape my thinking.

voram said:

4-seat convertibles are brilliant for your kind of use but I think when they get as big as, say, an E-class they just look too big and cumbersome. I'd go for one of the more compact ones.

However, you need to check the luggage space very carefully. If it's an only car you may find there isn't a prayer of ever going anywhere with "four people and luggage".

If you need luggage space the Merc estates with "panoramic roof" might be worth a look.

I was thinking of the E-class size for the leg room really. I also personally quite like the long and sleek look. Any suggestions on a more compact four-seater?

I've got a panoramic roof on the Peugeot 3008 I drive at the moment and love it - partly what tempted me to go for the whole roof off. It might end up being the compromise I go for though...

Joey Deacon said:

Never underestimate how unpleasant sitting in the back of a convertible with the roof down is. I suspect your children will start to find it uncomfortable within 30 seconds. Also I suspect your wife will hate being a passenger after a similar amount of time once her hair starts to get messed up and blows around her face.

Personally when I had one I only enjoyed it when I was on my own and the weather was the right temperature which was a handful of times a year.

Edited by Joey Deacon on Monday 23 August 16:31

Hmm, thanks for the advice and the reality check. I was planning to do a family test drive to see how much everyone enjoyed it in practice anyway. Pre-kids, my wife and I hired a convertible and drove it round Crete for a couple of weeks and had a blast, so I've got a hankering to do this again.

23.7 said:

An elderly Volvo or jeep will always need something fixing. Bare that in mind.

As others have said family will hate roof down most of the time. The right day, right weather, right road sublime. But few and far between.

I love my SL, but mostly just me.

I'd spend the lions share of your budget on the family car. Your convertible should be the older cheaper, can spend time off the road being fixed, park up in the winter kinda car.

TurboHatchback said:

I would get a small lightweight two-seater convertible just for you and a big boring luxobarge for the family. An ND MX5 and a Skoda Superb estate for example.

This was my original thinking; however, I came to the tentative conclusion that if I bought a nice family car and a cheap convertible, we would in reality never use the convertible and always just go with the other one. I see the force in the points about reliability and winter use.

I had discounted a two-seater because it would almost never get driven then. We go out a lot on day trips as a family and I thought the four-seater would be good fun for everyone then. I am unlikely to be able to go out on many jollies on my own in the two-seater for the next few years until the kids are older, except for the occasional work trip or trip to Screwfix or whatever.

Any suggestions on a ~£15k family crossover and a ~£5k convertible to consider would be very welcome though.

ZX10R NIN said:

Firstly that's a nice healthy budget, secondly do not skimp on the wife's car you will never hear the end of it if you're sitting in 15k's worth of convertible & she has a 5k car.

So with this in mind I'd go down the following route, get yourself an E Coupe with the Pano sunroof, you get all the benefits of having a convertible (with all the windows dropped away & the roof open) with none of the downsides in terms of luggage space, so you wont have to take the SUV when you go out.

[...]

Thanks very much for the links and recommendations, as well as the alternative ideas. The idea was not for it to be his and her cars though as, in reality, I would end up doing most of the driving. But she would probably still see the SUV/crossover as being the car bought to appease her and the convertible to appease me, so there is some truth in it still.

In terms of the budget, I hope I'm not overspending and I've been mulling over how much to spend. Happy to spend less because it's not a lot of miles a year because we don't commute in the car, but we do use it quite frequently, albeit generally short trips. Household income is around £175k gross, so it felt like an affordable amount for us to spend, provided the cars don't depreciate too much or require too much in the way of running costs; but if anyone thinks I'm spending a daft amount then please tell me.

georgeyboy12345 said:

Interesting challenge!

Thanks for the suggestions - very useful and I like the look of some of them.

The single car option was also the original plan until I thought of this alternative. The trouble is that the missus is pretty set on having a SUV/crossover, which I think are fine, but a bit over-priced and boring for what they are. I was thinking of getting something like a nearly new XC90 with a panoramic sunroof if we end up going down that route.

DKL said:

One of the best 4 seat soft tops would be an e500 4.7tt. But they are rare and don't come up often.
Usually around 16k and with 435bhp as stock and an easy 500+ available with minor mods if you are that way inclined. I'd love one.

Cool, thanks - I'll check it out.

edc said:

Isofix is no more safe than a belted child car seat. How old are your children? If they are in extended rear facing seats up to age circa 7 then space will be very tight in a 4 seater convertible. Then you have to contend with the mostly 3 door configuration.

I would just get a £10k Cmax or Touran rather than an SUV.

Is that right about isofix? The marketing must have got me then; but, either way, we are in the ecosystem now with two isofix bases, chairs, etc. They are at least fairly idiot-proof to set up, I guess. I have also wondered about the room factor - one child is currently forward-facing and the other is rear; I was planning to do a test with the seats before buying anything to check that the fit is ok. Rear-facing does take up more space.

I would also prefer not to get an SUV, but the wife is pretty adamant that she wants another one. I'm trying to keep all parties happy without running into marital issues...

[spreadsheet monkey]

Crispy Pigeon said:

Joey Deacon said:

Never underestimate how unpleasant sitting in the back of a convertible with the roof down is. I suspect your children will start to find it uncomfortable within 30 seconds. Also I suspect your wife will hate being a passenger after a similar amount of time once her hair starts to get messed up and blows around her face.

Personally when I had one I only enjoyed it when I was on my own and the weather was the right temperature which was a handful of times a year.

Hmm, thanks for the advice and the reality check. I was planning to do a family test drive to see how much everyone enjoyed it in practice anyway. Pre-kids, my wife and I hired a convertible and drove it round Crete for a couple of weeks and had a blast, so I've got a hankering to do this again.

My kids (aged 6 and 9 at the time) loved my convertible when I had one. Try one for yourself and see how they like it. I imagine a modern BMW or Merc 4 seater convertible would be pretty nice, even in the back.

[ZX10R NIN]

[/quote]

Thanks very much for the links and recommendations, as well as the alternative ideas. The idea was not for it to be his and her cars though as, in reality, I would end up doing most of the driving. But she would probably still see the SUV/crossover as being the car bought to appease her and the convertible to appease me, so there is some truth in it still.

In terms of the budget, I hope I'm not overspending and I've been mulling over how much to spend. Happy to spend less because it's not a lot of miles a year because we don't commute in the car, but we do use it quite frequently, albeit generally short trips. Household income is around £175k gross, so it felt like an affordable amount for us to spend, provided the cars don't depreciate too much or require too much in the way of running costs; but if anyone thinks I'm spending a daft amount then please tell me.
[/quote]

With you doing the majority of the driving, I would still put the wife in the EX37 because it ticks the SUV box will feel premium, it won't be depreciating a great deal & it's a very good family car.

EX37

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108166...

For yourself I'd go for something a bit more special admittedly with more miles on the clock (but with your low annual mileage it'll come back to you) & 5k more than the 20k total you'd ear marked but I think it's worth it.

Mercedes E400 with the Pano Sunroof giving you that convertible feel (try one back to back with a convertible) a decent amount of performance too:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107195...

[Crispy Pigeon]

spreadsheet monkey said:

My kids (aged 6 and 9 at the time) loved my convertible when I had one. Try one for yourself and see how they like it. I imagine a modern BMW or Merc 4 seater convertible would be pretty nice, even in the back.

I plan to try taking the family out to do a couple of test drives and see what they make of it, as you suggest...

I have to say I'm leaning towards trying something like the Merc E Class/CLK or this BMW suggested above

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107054...

ZX10R NIN said:

With you doing the majority of the driving, I would still put the wife in the EX37 because it ticks the SUV box will feel premium, it won't be depreciating a great deal & it's a very good family car.

The Infiniti suggestion is interesting and I'll explore it further, but it looks like the boot space is fairly tight at around 410l. The Peugeot 3008 has around 520l and it's a bit tight for overnight trips at the moment, so I was actually thinking of trying something sized like the Peugeot 5008, which has more like 700l+ of boot space.

What do you think of this 5008? The wife likes the Peugeot so I was wondering about trying to find one of those:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107054...

My main concern here is the diesel engine and DPF issues with low mileage, etc., but I was wondering if I did mostly motorway miles (albeit only around 4,000 pa or something) it might be all right. I can't see anything with the equivalent spec and price in petrol at the moment, but no mad rush.

ZX10R NIN said:

For yourself I'd go for something a bit more special admittedly with more miles on the clock (but with your low annual mileage it'll come back to you) & 5k more than the 20k total you'd ear marked but I think it's worth it.

Mercedes E400 with the Pano Sunroof giving you that convertible feel (try one back to back with a convertible) a decent amount of performance too:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107195...

The coupe with pano sunroof idea is interesting and worth considering. I'll try to arrange a test drive of one of those back-to-back as you suggest and see what I think. Thanks for the idea!

[ZX10R NIN]

Crispy Pigeon said:

The Infiniti suggestion is interesting and I'll explore it further, but it looks like the boot space is fairly tight at around 410l. The Peugeot 3008 has around 520l and it's a bit tight for overnight trips at the moment, so I was actually thinking of trying something sized like the Peugeot 5008, which has more like 700l+ of boot space.

What do you think of this 5008? The wife likes the Peugeot so I was wondering about trying to find one of those:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107054...

My main concern here is the diesel engine and DPF issues with low mileage, etc., but I was wondering if I did mostly motorway miles (albeit only around 4,000 pa or something) it might be all right. I can't see anything with the equivalent spec and price in petrol at the moment, but no mad rush.

The coupe with pano sunroof idea is interesting and worth considering. I'll try to arrange a test drive of one of those back-to-back as you suggest and see what I think. Thanks for the idea!

The boot's aren't the biggest on the Infiniti (X3/Q5 sized) so they may not work for you but take a look at one (even if it's a diesel one) if there's one close by.

I like the 5008 it's a very good well built car but in 1.5d form I don't think it'll suit your usage, I would have said the Renault Kadjar 1.2T but that only has 472 litres.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108035...

If you want more boot space then keep an eye for the 3.0 X5's with 650 litres of boot space it may just tick all of your boxes:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108055...

[fflump]

[quote]
In terms of the budget, I hope I'm not overspending and I've been mulling over how much to spend. Happy to spend less because it's not a lot of miles a year because we don't commute in the car, but we do use it quite frequently, albeit generally short trips. Household income is around £175k gross, so it felt like an affordable amount for us to spend, provided the cars don't depreciate too much or require too much in the way of running costs; but if anyone thinks I'm spending a daft amount then please tell me.
[/quote]

So your take-home is pushing £10k per month and you're fretting over a £20k outlay on two cars?

[Crispy Pigeon]

ZX10R NIN said:

The boot's aren't the biggest on the Infiniti (X3/Q5 sized) so they may not work for you but take a look at one (even if it's a diesel one) if there's one close by.

I like the 5008 it's a very good well built car but in 1.5d form I don't think it'll suit your usage, I would have said the Renault Kadjar 1.2T but that only has 472 litres.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108035...

If you want more boot space then keep an eye for the 3.0 X5's with 650 litres of boot space it may just tick all of your boxes:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108055...

By way of update, I test drove a few BMWs today with the family and the X5 is a pretty good shout actually. It ticked a lot of the boxes for my wife, although it's a little larger than she is comfortable driving. The petrol one was not bad to drive and the petrol/hybrid one was a lot of fun actually when I put my foot down.

So I'm currently contemplating getting a more expensive X5 hybrid (or a Volvo XC90 hybrid) as a single car compromise because of its fuel efficiency/low emissions round town plus the fun factor of the acceleration vs getting an older X5 as suggested in your link plus a coupe or convertible. We tried the 4 series convertible today as well and I liked it a lot as well (as did my daughter - "Peppa Pig car"), although my wife was a bit more sceptical...

The trouble is that there are not many older X5s in petrol. I found a couple here, but I'm a bit worried about getting a big bill because there's 10+ years old. Any views on something like one of these:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202105202...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107195...

And any views on their reliability or how much I should set aside for maintenance each year...?

There are a LOT more older X5s in diesel and their running costs (tax and mpg) seem a lot lower. If I were to get one of these for longer trips and keep the second car for knocking around town mostly, would it be a terrible idea to get a diesel? I could probably guarantee doing a couple of motorway runs of 100 miles in it once or twice a month when we visit the in-laws. It does seem like not just the X5, but a lot of non-hybrid full-size older SUVs are diesel, so I am going to be quite limited if I stick to petrol...

Otherwise, I may stick to one of the other makes/models suggested in a petrol...

Edit: The car seats also fit in the back of the 4 series convertible and leg room wasn't all that bad even for an adult actually! And my daughter was fine with the wind, etc., even at 60 mph. So I do feel the plan is viable (if my wife can be persuaded).

fflump said:

So your take-home is pushing £10k per month and you're fretting over a £20k outlay on two cars?

It's looking like it's going to end up being more like £30k now as I have upsold myself, but essentially, "yes"...! The cost of living in London with a couple of kids is quite high and after mortgage, childcare costs and pension we will have about £5,500 per month... we've also depleted savings recently with maternity leave and work on the house. I'm only early thirties and have generally spent a lot less on cars to date, so £30k or what would probably be about £500pm feels like a not-insignificant amount that could otherwise be saved or spent elsewhere and we both hate wasting money.

It sounds like you think it's a reasonable amount anyway (which I find heartening); but my wife certainly thinks it feels like a lot for our relatively limited mileage, especially as we aren't commuting by car. etc. I don't want to get too off-topic as such, but I suppose I am considering the overall 1 vs 2 car ownership plan and the budget is part of that, so any group wisdom on whether this is a proportionate amount to spend is also welcome...

Edited by Crispy Pigeon on Sunday 29th August 17:48

[fflump]

I feel your pain having moved from London to Edinburgh I live like a king in comparison.
Bottom line if you want to get from A to B there are plenty cheaper things than an X5 with similar capacity. It all comes down to how much you value a prestige brand and the associated interior , gearbox, performance etc

[Vee]

30k of cars, which will depreciate and require work at some point, to do 5k mikes a year sounds excessive.
I’d seriously look at something more modern like a 335d/ 340i Touring. Those X5s are very dated now and will feel like it.

[ZX10R NIN]

By way of update, I test drove a few BMWs today with the family and the X5 is a pretty good shout actually. It ticked a lot of the boxes for my wife, although it's a little larger than she is comfortable driving. The petrol one was not bad to drive and the petrol/hybrid one was a lot of fun actually when I put my foot down.

So I'm currently contemplating getting a more expensive X5 hybrid (or a Volvo XC90 hybrid) as a single car compromise because of its fuel efficiency/low emissions round town plus the fun factor of the acceleration vs getting an older X5 as suggested in your link plus a coupe or convertible. We tried the 4 series convertible today as well and I liked it a lot as well (as did my daughter - "Peppa Pig car"), although my wife was a bit more sceptical...

The trouble is that there are not many older X5s in petrol. I found a couple here, but I'm a bit worried about getting a big bill because there's 10+ years old. Any views on something like one of these:


Firstly should any of those older X5's (which at some point they will) it won't be as big as the depreciation on a 30-35k SUV, also as I said lookout for the 3.0 Petrol model as it's the pick.

Now if you can make a diesel work then I'd say get one you'd need 2-3 50+ mile trips a month & you should be fine if you went for a 40d model you'll get one with sensible miles & you'll also enjoy the acceleration:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107315...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108146...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108035...

35d

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107295...

Personally with your new budget I'd say take a look at the Porsche Cayenne, they have a large boot & you can get them in both Petrol & diesel form with the 4.2d being the peach:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107064...

Petrol 4.8S

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106244...

Now with the above in mind you can still get a convertible:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202104071...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108266...

Now if was to spend 30-35k on an SUV then it would be on one of these, with the slower depreciation offsetting the extra cost.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202105032...

Edited by ZX10R NIN on Monday 30th August 12:33