Under £10k, manual, rear seats

[greeneggsnsam]

Here's a fun one for you. I might be looking for a new car soon and am wondering if I've thought of everything.

The car must be a manual and have a good engine, plus rear seats and ideally rear doors. No superminis or anything from the VW Group. FWD ok but I already have an Integra so would need to be really different. Under £10k but would go above for the right car, I suppose.

Shortlist so far isn't huge because there aren't many cars that fit into this niche, surprisingly.

E39 530i. E46 330i. E90 330i. Pre-facelift 130i.

Subaru Legacy Spec B, both 3.0 and 2.0 imports. Maybe an older GTB twin-turbo. Impreza WRX Estate.

Mazda 6 MPS. Nissan Stagea RS4S. Alfa 156 2.5 (love Alfas but have had a V6 before so loses points).

Anything I've missed?

[23.7]

Used golf.

[georgeyboy12345]

E90 BMW 335i - seller has tried to hide the reg with a towel, the reg is ST59 JXX. I guess you can spend the grand or two that it's below budget by to fix the rear brake sensor that he's disconnected.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202104061...


This E46 330i clubsport is quite an interesting variant of the 330i, I don't think you see too many of them. It has a minor oil leak which will be a bugger to sort. I guess you could just keep topping it up, that's what I did with my last car and it was fine.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107225...


Some brave pills required for this Maserati Coupe 4.2. MOT history looks pretty good to be fair.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106224...


Renaultsport Megane Cup
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108236...

[greeneggsnsam]

Would love a Maser but just a bit too risky at my budget I think. The Megane is great, I love how they drive, but quite similar to the Honda.

[Rotary Potato]

greeneggsnsam said:

Here's a fun one for you. I might be looking for a new car soon and am wondering if I've thought of everything.

The car must be a manual and have a good engine, plus rear seats and ideally rear doors. No superminis or anything from the VW Group. FWD ok but I already have an Integra so would need to be really different. Under £10k but would go above for the right car, I suppose.

Shortlist so far isn't huge because there aren't many cars that fit into this niche, surprisingly.

E39 530i. E46 330i. E90 330i. Pre-facelift 130i.

Subaru Legacy Spec B, both 3.0 and 2.0 imports. Maybe an older GTB twin-turbo. Impreza WRX Estate.

Mazda 6 MPS. Nissan Stagea RS4S. Alfa 156 2.5 (love Alfas but have had a V6 before so loses points).

Anything I've missed?

This screams RX8 to me.

Interesting engine.
Rear seats.
Rear doors.
Not a supermini.
Not VW.
Manual.
Well under £10k (£10k would either buy you the very best of the late R3s in the country, and have several £££ in the kitty. Or buy a very clean earlier car and take it straight to your specialist of choice for an engine rebuild and also have several £££ spare. Spare £££ can go on the gallons of fuel you will burn! ).

[ZX10R NIN]

greeneggsnsam said:

Here's a fun one for you. I might be looking for a new car soon and am wondering if I've thought of everything.

The car must be a manual and have a good engine, plus rear seats and ideally rear doors. No superminis or anything from the VW Group. FWD ok but I already have an Integra so would need to be really different. Under £10k but would go above for the right car, I suppose.

Shortlist so far isn't huge because there aren't many cars that fit into this niche, surprisingly.

E39 530i. E46 330i. E90 330i. Pre-facelift 130i.

Subaru Legacy Spec B, both 3.0 and 2.0 imports. Maybe an older GTB twin-turbo. Impreza WRX Estate.

Mazda 6 MPS. Nissan Stagea RS4S. Alfa 156 2.5 (love Alfas but have had a V6 before so loses points).

Anything I've missed?

There's a clear omission & that's the Insignia VXR it's a very good steer with a sweet engine & it's also a very good drivers car, the fact that you can get a very nice one for you 10k would put nigh on at the top of the list:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109067...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202105313...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108306...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202102088...

[vaud]

Merc SL around 2004? Small rear seats but they are there.

[greeneggsnsam]

RX8 is a good one, nice to drive, though the engine isn't as exciting as I'd hoped.

Those Insignias are good to drive but I'd rather have a Monaro to be honest. Not really into the SL, and the seats are too small.

[RoVoFob]

greeneggsnsam said:

The car must be a manual and have a good engine, plus rear seats and ideally rear doors. No superminis or anything from the VW Group. FWD ok but I already have an Integra so would need to be really different. Under £10k but would go above for the right car, I suppose.

Shortlist so far isn't huge because there aren't many cars that fit into this niche, surprisingly.

E39 530i. E46 330i. E90 330i. Pre-facelift 130i.

Subaru Legacy Spec B, both 3.0 and 2.0 imports. Maybe an older GTB twin-turbo.

I’ve had a six-pot E46 (a 325ti in this case), three five-door 130is (two pre-facelifts and one facelift) and a Legacy Tourer 3.0R Spec B - all six-speed manuals. What do you want to know?

The 325ti sounded fantastic and was really solid and planted, but ultimately not that exciting as it wasn’t that torquey or revvy. I’m sure a 330i would be better, but still more on the cruiser side than overly sporty and I’d wager that the 130i is substantially more satisfying to drive.

The 130i is lighter than the E46 325ti/330i, has more torque from lower revs and produces more power at higher revs, giving it a really broad spread of power; it’s equally good at effortlessly picking up speed in sixth as letting you change down to second coming out of a village at 30mph and red-lining it to just under 60mph at 7000rpm. The 130i has weighty, precise steering, a decent gear change once the car’s warmed up and great sports seats (standard in M Sports, optional on SEs) that hold you tightly in place thanks to inflatable bolsters. I find it far more engaging than the E46. It’s lighter than the 330i by 55kg or so, too. I wouldn’t write off a facelift car if you find the perfect one, as the steering is still pretty good - nicely weighted and still pretty precise.

The Legacy, meanwhile, has a beautifully smooth flat-six that revs with no effort, really short gearing - 57mph in second and just 75mph in third, so you can absolutely make the most of the lovely engine at legal speeds (unlike that other flat-six car, the Cayman, where second in most models extends to 80mph - madness) and great traction. It’s solidly built, planted on the road and has light but extremely precise steering. Mine was an estate, which offered near-V70 levels of practicality. A lovely thing, but ultimately a little light on torque, steering weight and overall feeling of quality - the speakers were rubbish (my 130is had the optional better speakers, so not a fair comparison), the seats weren’t great and the driving position was odd - annoyingly high.

So…quite different cars and which is best for you depends what you’re after!

[fflump]

You mentioned a 156 but have you considered a 159 or Brera (depending on seat/door preferences)?
Decent poke and traction with the 3.2 V6 Q4 AWD
Both look great

[greeneggsnsam]

RoVoFob said:

I’ve had a six-pot E46 (a 325ti in this case), three five-door 130is (two pre-facelifts and one facelift) and a Legacy Tourer 3.0R Spec B - all six-speed manuals. What do you want to know?

The 325ti sounded fantastic and was really solid and planted, but ultimately not that exciting as it wasn’t that torquey or revvy. I’m sure a 330i would be better, but still more on the cruiser side than overly sporty and I’d wager that the 130i is substantially more satisfying to drive.

The 130i is lighter than the E46 325ti/330i, has more torque from lower revs and produces more power at higher revs, giving it a really broad spread of power; it’s equally good at effortlessly picking up speed in sixth as letting you change down to second coming out of a village at 30mph and red-lining it to just under 60mph at 7000rpm. The 130i has weighty, precise steering, a decent gear change once the car’s warmed up and great sports seats (standard in M Sports, optional on SEs) that hold you tightly in place thanks to inflatable bolsters. I find it far more engaging than the E46. It’s lighter than the 330i by 55kg or so, too. I wouldn’t write off a facelift car if you find the perfect one, as the steering is still pretty good - nicely weighted and still pretty precise.

The Legacy, meanwhile, has a beautifully smooth flat-six that revs with no effort, really short gearing - 57mph in second and just 75mph in third, so you can absolutely make the most of the lovely engine at legal speeds (unlike that other flat-six car, the Cayman, where second in most models extends to 80mph - madness) and great traction. It’s solidly built, planted on the road and has light but extremely precise steering. Mine was an estate, which offered near-V70 levels of practicality. A lovely thing, but ultimately a little light on torque, steering weight and overall feeling of quality - the speakers were rubbish (my 130is had the optional better speakers, so not a fair comparison), the seats weren’t great and the driving position was odd - annoyingly high.

So…quite different cars and which is best for you depends what you’re after!

Great info, thanks! I'm going to test drive them once I've narrowed it down but I think it's going to be either BMW or Subaru at this point.

The thing I need to work out is whether I'll get more use out of the smaller, more fun ones (130i, Impreza) or something that I can take on a longer trip easily (530i, Legacy). The 330i is kind of somewhere in between.

[greeneggsnsam]

fflump said:

You mentioned a 156 but have you considered a 159 or Brera (depending on seat/door preferences)?
Decent poke and traction with the 3.2 V6 Q4 AWD
Both look great

Love how they look but they aren't as good as the older ones to drive.

[fflump]

greeneggsnsam said:

fflump said:

You mentioned a 156 but have you considered a 159 or Brera (depending on seat/door preferences)?
Decent poke and traction with the 3.2 V6 Q4 AWD
Both look great

Love how they look but they aren't as good as the older ones to drive.

Fair enough I’ve owned both. Found the 156 nice and nimble if a bit skittish. My old man had a FWD 159 which wasn’t a great drive but my Q4 handling was so much better

[Mr Tidy]

greeneggsnsam said:

Great info, thanks! I'm going to test drive them once I've narrowed it down but I think it's going to be either BMW or Subaru at this point.

The thing I need to work out is whether I'll get more use out of the smaller, more fun ones (130i, Impreza) or something that I can take on a longer trip easily (530i, Legacy). The 330i is kind of somewhere in between.

Definitely need to work that out!

I had a manual E46 325ti that was great to rag about as a daily, but in some ways that may overlap with your Integra. I thought about a 130i as a replacement but my budget was much lower so I ended up with an early E90 330i I've had for over 2 years now.

It's much more refined despite being a bit quicker, and it has the same N52 engine as the 130i anyway!

I wouldn't bother with E46s now - it's almost impossible to find one that isn't getting rusty. Same seems to be true of E39 5 Series.

As someone said the Electric PAS in the facelift 130i isn't too bad (and it saves a few quid on tax) based on the 6 years I had in my facelift 123d - it was way better than the EPAS in my Z4s!

I don't know about the other options as I try to stick to RWD, but there is something appealing about a 3 litre Legacy.

[RoVoFob]

greeneggsnsam said:

Great info, thanks! I'm going to test drive them once I've narrowed it down but I think it's going to be either BMW or Subaru at this point.

The thing I need to work out is whether I'll get more use out of the smaller, more fun ones (130i, Impreza) or something that I can take on a longer trip easily (530i, Legacy). The 330i is kind of somewhere in between.

No worries. Refinement-wise, I think the 130i is better than the Legacy and its torque makes it feel more responsive on the motorway, too. The 130i has less wind noise than my 04 S60 T5, too, so I wouldn’t think it’s disadvantaged on the longer trip front, though I imagine the 530i would be a notch more comfortable.

My wife and I did 1,800 miles in eight days around France, Germany and Switzerland a few years back and the 130i was more comfortable and stable on the autobahn than the M140i we took on a subsequent trip. Impressive thing…hence why I’m on my third!

[Jamescrs]

Anything BMW with a 6 cylinder engine really would fit the bill, you make your own choice over what size of car you need, probably go for a really nice 130i personally.

[Fastdruid]

greeneggsnsam said:

Here's a fun one for you. I might be looking for a new car soon and am wondering if I've thought of everything.

The car must be a manual and have a good engine, plus rear seats and ideally rear doors.
<snip>

Mazda 6 MPS.

<snip>

Anything I've missed?

Mondeo 2.5T, Mondeo ST220, Focus ST (2.5T)

Having had the Mazda 6 MPS they're rather a rust bucket and the engines have VVT/camchain, oil usage and turbo issues. They don't tune easily (although you can get big power from them) so beware modified ones and buy carefully. Fun though and felt quick due to the way it made its power.

[greeneggsnsam]

Good to know the 130i is good for longer trips. I just need to try one. I really like the M135i/M140i but I've generally preferred the 3 Series overall. I've not driven the E87 or E90 though, only the newer ones, so I definitely need to try both and compare them.

Fastdruid said:

Mondeo 2.5T, Mondeo ST220, Focus ST (2.5T)

Having had the Mazda 6 MPS they're rather a rust bucket and the engines have VVT/camchain, oil usage and turbo issues. They don't tune easily (although you can get big power from them) so beware modified ones and buy carefully. Fun though and felt quick due to the way it made its power.

Similar problem with the Mondeo, there are some really nasty looking ones for sale because they were so worthless for a time. I do like them though. The 6 was on my list just because I love the ordinary Mazdas. Took a new 6 to Italy on holiday a few years ago and loved it.

[Fastdruid]

greeneggsnsam said:

Fastdruid said:

Mondeo 2.5T, Mondeo ST220, Focus ST (2.5T)

Having had the Mazda 6 MPS they're rather a rust bucket and the engines have VVT/camchain, oil usage and turbo issues. They don't tune easily (although you can get big power from them) so beware modified ones and buy carefully. Fun though and felt quick due to the way it made its power.

Similar problem with the Mondeo, there are some really nasty looking ones for sale because they were so worthless for a time. I do like them though. The 6 was on my list just because I love the ordinary Mazdas. Took a new 6 to Italy on holiday a few years ago and loved it.

Having had both, the Mondeo is *MUCH* better than the 6 for rust. At 10 years old and only 62k our MPS was getting advisories for rust, the exhaust had rusted through etc. By the time we sold it we'd had to replace the rear lower arms, patched the sills, spent ages rust treating underneath.

At the same time our Mk4 Mondeo which is now 13 years old hasn't had a single advisory for rust. The worst thing is two hangers had rotted off the exhaust. Still on the original exhaust though.

The older Mk2 Mondeo we had got to 14 years before we sold it and that again had no worrying rust, the returns on the rear arches were *just* starting to get a bit thicker than they should be but that was a car we bought for <£1k and stuck 80k on. Probably had another 5 years before the rust would be an issue.

Other issue with the 6 MPS is tax, only a few pre March-2006 were the lower tax while the Mondeo 2.5T is much cheaper on tax than the later 6 MPS's and far better mpg (about 4mpg better in identical use to the 6 MPS, mid to high 30's on a run).

The ST220 is a bit more special than most Mondeos so doesn't suffer quite the same neglect, the 2.5T is even rarer. Almost all I've seen have been well treated. Obviously not all will be. The 2.5T though is *massively* better on fuel than the ST220, slightly quicker stock and massively quicker if remapped. Not quite the same glorious v6 but still the turbocharged inline-5 is characterful in itself. The 6 MPS was much quicker off the line than the Mondeo 2.5T but almost nothing in it on the move (although the MPS *felt* quicker due to the laggy turbo).

[greeneggsnsam]

The 2.5T is a nice niche choice. Bet loads of them have had old-school owners that look after them properly simply because they never had an ST badge.