Test Drives? First 'fast' car buying advice needed.
Discussion
Having graduated and secured a half decent job, I'm looking to buy my first 'proper' fast-ish car. After a string of cheap hatchbacks, a Mk1 MX5 and an E36 BMW 318iS. I've decided that I fancy a RenaultSport Clio Cup 197/200, on the basis that I would use it as more of a second car alongside my MK4 Golf and also take it to Anglesey for some track days. The problem is the only comparable car I've actually driven was a Clio 182 which I hated (too small, woeful driving position and cheap interior that was falling apart). The Clio's have appreciated recently and I'm looking at around 6K for a RS200 with the Cup suspension, I would hate to spend that kind of money only to find I hate the car as much as the old 182 I drove. So I would like to test drive one before hand. There is only one RS200/197 for sale within 60 miles of me at a dealership, it's a 2010 'Gordini' edition which I'm not particularly keen on to be honest and is way above my budget at over £10k - would it be very wrong to take this one for a test drive even though I have no intention of buying it? Any advice appreciated.
if its a private sale - dont waste the sellers time by test driving a car you have no intention of buying.
if its a dealer - feel free to waste their time as much as you like. its their job to sell cars, and they charge a mark up over a private sale.
alternatively, get on an owners forum and see if there is someone close by who will let you drive their car in exchange for beer tokens.
if its a dealer - feel free to waste their time as much as you like. its their job to sell cars, and they charge a mark up over a private sale.
alternatively, get on an owners forum and see if there is someone close by who will let you drive their car in exchange for beer tokens.
Trackdayer said:
If you're wanting something trackable but better built and bigger than a 182/197/200 you could go for a Civic Type-R. A much better engine too.
If you liked the feel of your BMW then a 325/328/330 E36/E46 would be within your budget too. That would be my choice.
I still have my E36 and I love the way mine drives. In a perfect world I'd buy a 328/325 and modify it to my tastes, but I'm fed up of the whole E36 'scene' to be honest with you. Parts are now extortionately expensive. Most of the 6cyl cars are rust buckets that have been run on a shoestring budget. Sellers are wanting 5k for a rusty 'SE' 328. They are also old cars which were expensive when new so most of them need a lot of love by now. Good, unmolested ones are so rare nowadays. It's the same story with the Civic's really, but I'm also not a fan of the chavvy image of the EP3. The appeal of the Clio is that it is new enough not to be horrible and falling apart on the inside, and that it's already ready for the track - no need to spend $$ on new suspension components/brakes and effing about with rusty old parts.If you liked the feel of your BMW then a 325/328/330 E36/E46 would be within your budget too. That would be my choice.
brillomaster said:
if its a private sale - dont waste the sellers time by test driving a car you have no intention of buying.
if its a dealer - feel free to waste their time as much as you like. its their job to sell cars, and they charge a mark up over a private sale.
alternatively, get on an owners forum and see if there is someone close by who will let you drive their car in exchange for beer tokens.
It's a dealer - but a small time one, I wouldn't consider doing it otherwise.if its a dealer - feel free to waste their time as much as you like. its their job to sell cars, and they charge a mark up over a private sale.
alternatively, get on an owners forum and see if there is someone close by who will let you drive their car in exchange for beer tokens.
TAHodgson said:
Where are you located?
My RS200 is (coincidentally) for sale, and I'd be happy to let you test drive it regardless.
Im in Redditch, Worcestershire. Or in Edenthorpe, Doncaster relatively often!
West Wales, it's always the same when you want a particular car - you just have to travel.My RS200 is (coincidentally) for sale, and I'd be happy to let you test drive it regardless.
Im in Redditch, Worcestershire. Or in Edenthorpe, Doncaster relatively often!
gj124 said:
I still have my E36 and I love the way mine drives. In a perfect world I'd buy a 328/325 and modify it to my tastes, but I'm fed up of the whole E36 'scene' to be honest with you. Parts are now extortionately expensive. Most of the 6cyl cars are rust buckets that have been run on a shoestring budget. Sellers are wanting 5k for a rusty 'SE' 328. They are also old cars which were expensive when new so most of them need a lot of love by now. Good, unmolested ones are so rare nowadays. It's the same story with the Civic's really, but I'm also not a fan of the chavvy image of the EP3. The appeal of the Clio is that it is new enough not to be horrible and falling apart on the inside, and that it's already ready for the track - no need to spend $$ on new suspension components/brakes and effing about with rusty old parts.
Okay I see your point.Just to bring you up to speed on the 197/200
- Front swivel hubs need replacing regularly with track use (unlike BMW/Honda)
- VVT is actuated via a mechanical dephaser, which needs changing with the cambelt (unlike say BMW/Honda which are chain driven)
- The front calipers are brembo and the slider pins corrode into them. Can be sorted with stainless pins
You'll have to live with the generally "French" vibe of the interior, which might be what put you off the 182.
Could you stretch to a Megane RS250? That gets you a much, much quicker car. LSD as well. Much more solid than a Clio IMHO.
gj124 said:
West Wales, it's always the same when you want a particular car - you just have to travel.
Mine's a 59 plate early 200 factory cup, with air con. 75k miles, properly full history, no gearbox drama, two keys etc.Nimbus grey, black wheels, Michelin PS4's all round, all new brakes.
Standard yellow insert seats/seatbelts/dials, not Recaro's
Completely standard other than the factory red brembo callipers painted yellow to match the rest of the car.
Do give me a shout if it's of interest. Like I said, I don't mind a fellow Peer coming for a test drive regardless if you have no other options.
gj124 said:
Having graduated and secured a half decent job, I'm looking to buy my first 'proper' fast-ish car.
I hate myself for being that guy but...Do you have a plan for what you want to do over the next few years? I'm assuming that you are in your early-20s, I'm assuming that by a half-decent job you haven't found the holy grail of a grad job that pays £100k, doesn't require you to live in central London and gives you time to, y'know, sleep and stuff.
When I graduated and got my first "proper" job, I bought a car because I needed one and I wanted one. Nothing too fancy but I had a loan for 3 years at £248 per month. I regret nothing but... I would have had an easier time of things if I'd bought an old car and a toolbox, because a car loan and a mortgage repayment (on the tiniest, cheapest flat I could find) didn't leave much money after I'd paid the bills. That extra £248 a month would have been very useful indeed.
So, if you haven't already, spend some time considering if you want to take some trips halfway across the world, or if you want to get on the property ladder, or possibly need startup cash for a side hustle. Or all of the above. Then think if you can do those things you want to do and still afford to buy and run something a bit more special.
If you can, then you could do a lot worse than any of the sporty Clios. The 172 and 182 were the tools of choice for chaps who'd decided the car came above all else. So much fun, quick enough, and so much heartache for a couple who ended up parking them into hedges when they ran out of talent
donkmeister said:
I hate myself for being that guy but...
Do you have a plan for what you want to do over the next few years? I'm assuming that you are in your early-20s, I'm assuming that by a half-decent job you haven't found the holy grail of a grad job that pays £100k, doesn't require you to live in central London and gives you time to, y'know, sleep and stuff.
When I graduated and got my first "proper" job, I bought a car because I needed one and I wanted one. Nothing too fancy but I had a loan for 3 years at £248 per month. I regret nothing but... I would have had an easier time of things if I'd bought an old car and a toolbox, because a car loan and a mortgage repayment (on the tiniest, cheapest flat I could find) didn't leave much money after I'd paid the bills. That extra £248 a month would have been very useful indeed.
So, if you haven't already, spend some time considering if you want to take some trips halfway across the world, or if you want to get on the property ladder, or possibly need startup cash for a side hustle. Or all of the above. Then think if you can do those things you want to do and still afford to buy and run something a bit more special.
If you can, then you could do a lot worse than any of the sporty Clios. The 172 and 182 were the tools of choice for chaps who'd decided the car came above all else. So much fun, quick enough, and so much heartache for a couple who ended up parking them into hedges when they ran out of talent
Thanks for the sound advice, I do get where you're coming from. I will be living at home for the next few years though and could afford to buy one outright, completely agree about monthly payments - there's no chance I will burden myself with them. Most of my cars up until now have been cheap old snotters that I've been able to fix myself and sell on later, I suppose I'm a little fed up with the old stuff by now. An R27 Clio or a 'Cup' version would surely hold it's value quite well in the next few years so I don't think I'd be throwing money away.Do you have a plan for what you want to do over the next few years? I'm assuming that you are in your early-20s, I'm assuming that by a half-decent job you haven't found the holy grail of a grad job that pays £100k, doesn't require you to live in central London and gives you time to, y'know, sleep and stuff.
When I graduated and got my first "proper" job, I bought a car because I needed one and I wanted one. Nothing too fancy but I had a loan for 3 years at £248 per month. I regret nothing but... I would have had an easier time of things if I'd bought an old car and a toolbox, because a car loan and a mortgage repayment (on the tiniest, cheapest flat I could find) didn't leave much money after I'd paid the bills. That extra £248 a month would have been very useful indeed.
So, if you haven't already, spend some time considering if you want to take some trips halfway across the world, or if you want to get on the property ladder, or possibly need startup cash for a side hustle. Or all of the above. Then think if you can do those things you want to do and still afford to buy and run something a bit more special.
If you can, then you could do a lot worse than any of the sporty Clios. The 172 and 182 were the tools of choice for chaps who'd decided the car came above all else. So much fun, quick enough, and so much heartache for a couple who ended up parking them into hedges when they ran out of talent
brillomaster said:
if its a private sale - dont waste the sellers time by test driving a car you have no intention of buying.
if its a dealer - feel free to waste their time as much as you like. its their job to sell cars, and they charge a mark up over a private sale.
alternatively, get on an owners forum and see if there is someone close by who will let you drive their car in exchange for beer tokens.
Feel free to waste a dealers time.... whys that then seems a bit unfair if hes not buying from a dealer why waste their time as well ? if its a dealer - feel free to waste their time as much as you like. its their job to sell cars, and they charge a mark up over a private sale.
alternatively, get on an owners forum and see if there is someone close by who will let you drive their car in exchange for beer tokens.
Dan W. said:
Feel free to waste a dealers time.... whys that then seems a bit unfair if hes not buying from a dealer why waste their time as well ?
I guess it's because a salesperson is paid to sell cars while a private seller is giving up their free time to entertain a buyer. Still, I'd rather not 'waste' anyone's time.Dan W. said:
Feel free to waste a dealers time.... whys that then seems a bit unfair if hes not buying from a dealer why waste their time as well ?
I’m not advocating wasting anyone’s time, but dealers should be offering something private sellers can’t. Insured test drives might be one of those things.I guess the question is whether the salesperson in question would want the opportunity to use their professional skills to convert the test drive into a sale.
You view a car, sit in it, poke around it etc. If you’re not put off by something you see or how it feels ask the dealer if you can take it for a short test drive.
They can only say no, at which point they lose a possible sale.
You don’t waste someone’s time trying to decide whether or not to give them £6000 of your money. Time wasting is going out to test drive cars without any intention of buying anything at all.
The last time I test drove a car it was a 320d from a main dealer. I was pretty sure I wanted the car, but the test drive told me I didn’t actually like it. I’d have been annoyed handing over money for something I hadn’t driven.
They can only say no, at which point they lose a possible sale.
You don’t waste someone’s time trying to decide whether or not to give them £6000 of your money. Time wasting is going out to test drive cars without any intention of buying anything at all.
The last time I test drove a car it was a 320d from a main dealer. I was pretty sure I wanted the car, but the test drive told me I didn’t actually like it. I’d have been annoyed handing over money for something I hadn’t driven.
I remember in my 20s driving something like 239 odd miles to look at a 200sx. (mid 00s: they were not stupidly priced then but reasonbley rare, though it was about 20% more than I wanted to pay)
Got there, it was buried in the middle of a car lot
Sat in it. Fiddled a bit. Sales guy came up. I asked for a test ride and he basically said he'd be forever moving cars round if everyone had a test drive ( in other words fro)
I drove home. Bought a cheap MR2 turbo privately a few weeks later and spent probably the balance of the purchase price of the 200sx fixing it (bit that's of topic)
Lessons
1 phone first, maybe get them to move it to the front? or ask about their view of test drives
2 if you're genuinely serious, push for it (I wasn't, but could have shown cash etc)
3 private sellers tend to be freer with test drives, but expect to take proof of insurance (ie driving other vehicles). Just don't take them at night, and if you do, look very carefully for smoke on acceleration
I bought the cheapest one in autotrader in Southern England, and should have realised the seller was keen to see it gone.
4 it is something that gets easier as you get older I'm afraid, but I can't believe everyone under 30 buys without a test drive
Hth
Ian
Got there, it was buried in the middle of a car lot
Sat in it. Fiddled a bit. Sales guy came up. I asked for a test ride and he basically said he'd be forever moving cars round if everyone had a test drive ( in other words fro)
I drove home. Bought a cheap MR2 turbo privately a few weeks later and spent probably the balance of the purchase price of the 200sx fixing it (bit that's of topic)
Lessons
1 phone first, maybe get them to move it to the front? or ask about their view of test drives
2 if you're genuinely serious, push for it (I wasn't, but could have shown cash etc)
3 private sellers tend to be freer with test drives, but expect to take proof of insurance (ie driving other vehicles). Just don't take them at night, and if you do, look very carefully for smoke on acceleration
I bought the cheapest one in autotrader in Southern England, and should have realised the seller was keen to see it gone.
4 it is something that gets easier as you get older I'm afraid, but I can't believe everyone under 30 buys without a test drive
Hth
Ian
You will notice that the Clio 197/200 is better built than the 172/182. Cup's come with LSD.
Good cars, however Megane 250 would be a no brainer if you can manage in budget. R26 is also a good steer.
As rightly pointed out, be mindful of cambelt/dephaser service (circa £5-600 at an indy) every 5 or so years, and swivel hubs along with other consumables.
I would be swaying towards an EP3 Type R if your budget isn't enough for a Megane, but that is just my 2p.
Good cars, however Megane 250 would be a no brainer if you can manage in budget. R26 is also a good steer.
As rightly pointed out, be mindful of cambelt/dephaser service (circa £5-600 at an indy) every 5 or so years, and swivel hubs along with other consumables.
I would be swaying towards an EP3 Type R if your budget isn't enough for a Megane, but that is just my 2p.
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