Buying a Porsche from indie, service history missing
Discussion
So, the story is I have a 997 C2S lined up, paid my deposit a couple of weeks ago (before some prep at a body shop) on the understanding the service history was there and they were open to a sensible offer.
Arrived today to find whilst the main service book is present (albeit it's a replacement) with stamps (two main dealer, the rest specialists), there is only the last most recent service paperwork present and the rest is missing. They have also decided that the price is now non-negotiable.
Besides that, lovely folks.
It has always been my understanding that a good service history is important with these sorts of cars. If it's a bit of an unknown entity, perhaps the price should reflect this? Having said that, this is my first major outlay above 10k on a car so I am all ears as to your advice.
Arrived today to find whilst the main service book is present (albeit it's a replacement) with stamps (two main dealer, the rest specialists), there is only the last most recent service paperwork present and the rest is missing. They have also decided that the price is now non-negotiable.
Besides that, lovely folks.
It has always been my understanding that a good service history is important with these sorts of cars. If it's a bit of an unknown entity, perhaps the price should reflect this? Having said that, this is my first major outlay above 10k on a car so I am all ears as to your advice.
Histories unfortunately are becoming a thing of the past due to DPL many dealers are binning them if there are links to previous owner(s).
You will find the car very difficult to move on without a proper history and proof.
Having said that I would not buy any car never mind a 911 without at least a confirmed fully stamped up service history which the dealer should be able to confirm at least. If they cannot that would speak volumes and I would walk and find another.
I speak as a serial Porsche owner with extensive trade and retail experience btw.
You will find the car very difficult to move on without a proper history and proof.
Having said that I would not buy any car never mind a 911 without at least a confirmed fully stamped up service history which the dealer should be able to confirm at least. If they cannot that would speak volumes and I would walk and find another.
I speak as a serial Porsche owner with extensive trade and retail experience btw.
Thanks for your help AV185. The service book, whilst a replacement, states to have been issued the same year as manufacture and has service stamps pretty much every year to date. Would you still advise this gets verified?
My concern aside from being mechanically sound is of course resale value. Though by how much it will effect it, I have little idea. Let's say for the sake of argument this particular example is a late 997.1 C2S at £35k. Do you think the lack of paperwork should be detrimental to the asking price?
It irks me that originally they were open to negotiation and the lack of paperwork was not apparent. Now the latter is apparent and they're being sticky on the asking price. I'm more than a little torn to say the least!
My concern aside from being mechanically sound is of course resale value. Though by how much it will effect it, I have little idea. Let's say for the sake of argument this particular example is a late 997.1 C2S at £35k. Do you think the lack of paperwork should be detrimental to the asking price?
It irks me that originally they were open to negotiation and the lack of paperwork was not apparent. Now the latter is apparent and they're being sticky on the asking price. I'm more than a little torn to say the least!
Telestisch said:
Thanks for your help AV185. The service book, whilst a replacement, states to have been issued the same year as manufacture and has service stamps pretty much every year to date. Would you still advise this gets verified?
My concern aside from being mechanically sound is of course resale value. Though by how much it will effect it, I have little idea. Let's say for the sake of argument this particular example is a late 997.1 C2S at £35k. Do you think the lack of paperwork should be detrimental to the asking price?
It irks me that originally they were open to negotiation and the lack of paperwork was not apparent. Now the latter is apparent and they're being sticky on the asking price. I'm more than a little torn to say the least!
Yes it needs verifying no question. Could relate to another car same vintage. You also need to find out whether the car has had an engine rebuild due to the well known common major engine issues affecting the 997.1. What is the warranty situation other than the dealers? These cars are expensive if stuff goes wrong or maintenance has been skimped so be very wary there are alot of dogs out there from unreputable dealers so google them and previous customers comments.My concern aside from being mechanically sound is of course resale value. Though by how much it will effect it, I have little idea. Let's say for the sake of argument this particular example is a late 997.1 C2S at £35k. Do you think the lack of paperwork should be detrimental to the asking price?
It irks me that originally they were open to negotiation and the lack of paperwork was not apparent. Now the latter is apparent and they're being sticky on the asking price. I'm more than a little torn to say the least!
After this if all ok and you are happy I would get the car inspected by an OPC or good indie who knows their stuff.
Telestisch said:
So, the story is I have a 997 C2S lined up, paid my deposit a couple of weeks ago (before some prep at a body shop) on the understanding the service history was there and they were open to a sensible offer.
I may have misunderstood - but you appear to have paid a deposit before agreeing the purchase price? If so I hope its fully refundable.This car is presumably at least 12 years old? And the service intervals on the 997.2 are two years? So there should be a minimum of 6 stamps in the book on collection.
I think you have to be realistic and take a fully stamped book as reasonable. I’d rather have paperwork relating to the latest service than any other. Personally I’d rather have stamps from dealers/specialists than a handful of receipts for bits from Eurocarparts that any well-intentioned fool can fit badly.
However I think the specialist has to be reasonable too. They need to be able to meet your requirements and as a specialist they should be adding some value. Depending on when the last service was are they prepared to supply it with a no advisories MOT and fully serviced including plugs/gearbox oil/brake fluid if due for example?
I think you have to be realistic and take a fully stamped book as reasonable. I’d rather have paperwork relating to the latest service than any other. Personally I’d rather have stamps from dealers/specialists than a handful of receipts for bits from Eurocarparts that any well-intentioned fool can fit badly.
However I think the specialist has to be reasonable too. They need to be able to meet your requirements and as a specialist they should be adding some value. Depending on when the last service was are they prepared to supply it with a no advisories MOT and fully serviced including plugs/gearbox oil/brake fluid if due for example?
georgeyboy12345 said:
Doesn’t this depend on how much the car costs? Maybe the missing service history is reflected in the price and it’s really cheap compared to similar cars?
If the example above of a 997.1 C2S at £35k is taken as being the car in question then it is not cheap.As mentioned above. The .1 and in particular the 3.8S makes people windy for it's bore scoring issues. Proof of on schedule servicing or even above regular scheduled oil changes can make all the difference to the longevity of these engines so I would not be paying what seems a bit of a toppy price for one that has a replacement book and no other records. To me a replacement book just says the car has been through someone that wasn't that careful.
If the car was keenly priced and the OP planned on keeping it a good while with a view to spending on preventative maintenance thus building up their own "recent history" then my view would be that a patchy early history may not matter that much to eventual resale. If they plan on keeping it a year or 2 and only doing routine maintenance then I'd expect it to be a bit of a pain to move on.
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