I think I may be giving son wrong car advice...

[Anastie]

My mid-twenties son wants to replace his 10-year-old Mazda 3 Takua (think thats the right spelling)

He has a budget up to £17,000, Wants the car to have a bit of oomph, be reliable, and "look good". He has a few cars shortlisted but he is leaning towards a 2019 ex Motability Honda Civic with 51,000 miles. He wants to keep the car for 5 years as thats the term he wants a loan for.

My view on cars at my 50 years plus age was always that things start to go wrong on higher mileage cars. Based on my own experience in my 20's of large repair bills on Minis, Fords etc. So my advice I think is biased!! This Civic would have over 100,000 miles on it by 5 years.

Whats the advice from the PH community? Am I wrong to steer him away from high mileage cars? Does mileage still matter?

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111189...

On another note I know the used car market pricing is crazy at present and i wonder if waiting for used prices to settle would be good advice?

Appreciate any thoughts?

[Walshenham]

Of the 15 or so cars I have owned, only one has been sub 100k miles. My current daily driver has 173k miles on it, I’ve put about 10k if those on in the last year, only costs being tyres and an oil change. In my view, the idea that cars fall to bits at 100k is a bit old fashioned now, well looked after motors will keep going well past 200, especially Japanese stuff like a civic.

Personally a low mileage car actually raised more flags than a high one. I’d rather have a car which has been run up and down a motorway than one which has been cold started eleventy million times and driven to the shops with no oil temp.

[steveo3002]

id be telling him to not get into 17k for 5yrs for a used car

[mholt1995]

At that budget I'd definitely go older and quicker if he's earning enough to keep on top of maintenance.

For 17k you've got a decent selection of Mk7 Golf GTIs

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108025...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202110309...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111099...

Can scrape into an M135i for ultimate price/performance/reliability, I've had one since Sep '20 so happy to talk running costs

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202110118...

Alternatively, stay "warm" like the Civic and save some money for more fun/grown-up things

Peugot 308 GT
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111249...

Ceed GT
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202112130...

Astra GTC 1.6t
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202110208...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202112130...

Focus 1.5t 182 Titanium X
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111079...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109067...

[wyson]

The semi conductor shortage has to end and a whole bunch of new cars have to be made for used car prices to calm down.

Tech blogs are saying new chip fabs will start coming online in 2 to 3 years time and they envisage a shortage until then.

Honda’s own extended warranty scheme is a good place to look for data about expected longevity.

https://www.honda.co.uk/cars/owners/extended-guara...

I haven’t read the small print, but seeing they will warranty a car that is upto 11 years old, says a lot about how durable they expect their cars to be.

VW for instance has gone on record saying they develop a lot of their components to last 8 to 10 years at average miles and their extended warranty, reflects this, covering cars upto 8 years old.

So the question is, how many miles does he expect to do in those 5 years? If he is going to do 5k miles a year, a 50k mile car is likely to be fine. If he is going to do 15k miles a year, does he mind doing maintenance, which is going to be increasingly likely near the end, even if, as Honda’s extended warranty would attest, he wouldn’t expect anything major to fail during this time?

Edited by wyson on Thursday 16th December 10:54

[Anastie]

Thanks for all the comments very helpful. Maintenance wise he won't do it himself so he needs to account for that in his budget which he is aware of. Mileage each year will be between 10-12000.

I too was concerned at the time he is looking to repay the loan as I too think 5 years is too long. When he was leasing through the NHS he got bored after two years and changed the car after paying an early settlement on the lease. Ended up paying almost £500 a month for an A3! As he has left home he no longer has that level of disposable income.

[InitialDave]

On the mileage thing, I wouldn't even consider it as a factor, look at the car and buy based on condition.

The car itself? No idea, it depends, for example, on what his experience of performance stuff is for what will count as having the performance he wants.

Normally once you're spending that sort of money on something fairly normal, I'd say to consider if there are any good lease or PCP deals that may get you a new car for a reasonable total expense vs the depreciation on a purchased car, but I have no idea where we're currently at regarding availability and pricing of stuff right now.

[georgeyboy12345]

Anastie said:

My mid-twenties son wants to replace his 10-year-old Mazda 3 Takua (think thats the right spelling)

He has a budget up to £17,000, Wants the car to have a bit of oomph, be reliable, and "look good". He has a few cars shortlisted but he is leaning towards a 2019 ex Motability Honda Civic with 51,000 miles. He wants to keep the car for 5 years as thats the term he wants a loan for.

My view on cars at my 50 years plus age was always that things start to go wrong on higher mileage cars. Based on my own experience in my 20's of large repair bills on Minis, Fords etc. So my advice I think is biased!! This Civic would have over 100,000 miles on it by 5 years.

Whats the advice from the PH community? Am I wrong to steer him away from high mileage cars? Does mileage still matter?

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111189...

On another note I know the used car market pricing is crazy at present and i wonder if waiting for used prices to settle would be good advice?

Appreciate any thoughts?

It's a good question and it really depends on the car. The 1.5 VTEC Turbo engine in that Civic does actually have several small issues. The major issue it has is that it's so efficient that it takes an age to warm up, very much like a diesel, so is not suited to short journeys. They are also direct injection engines and start to suffer from carbon deposits on the intake valves, which leads to poor fuel consumption from as little as 50,000 miles. It's also very important to keep on top of oil changes, doing them at least every 9000 miles or annually, preferably even more frequently as running cold can lead to condensation and also oil dilution with petrol.

On the other hand, some other engines can go for 300,000 miles without needing anything other than standard consumables.

[montyjohn]

Anastie said:

My mid-twenties son wants to replace his 10-year-old Mazda 3 Takua (think thats the right spelling)

He has a budget up to £17,000, Wants the car to have a bit of oomph, be reliable, and "look good". He has a few cars shortlisted but he is leaning towards a 2019 ex Motability Honda Civic with 51,000 miles. He wants to keep the car for 5 years as thats the term he wants a loan for.

What's the reason for replacing the Mazda 3?
I'm not really clear what the £17k spent will achieve.

If he's just wanting a change (which I get) then why not swap for something else that's 10 years old. Like this.

Lexus IS 250

Really nice looking car, very very reliable. There's a very good chance it will want for nothing over 5 years.
It's quick.
And your son will have almost £10k burning a hole in his pocket (or at least less debt I guess in reality).

With newer cars the depreciation almost always costs more than the maintenance over the same period.
As for mileage, most cars will do 300k these days. Yes things start going, especially diesels at the 100k mark with EGRs, DPFs etc but if you've saved a fortune on the purchase of the car, what's the issue.

Only problem in my view with older cars is the rubbish infotainment in them. But is it worth £10k to resolve? Especially when old much nicer cars are available.

[anonymous-user]

£17k will buy you a hell of lot of brand new Dacia Sandero/Jogger/Duster (with money left over), either that or the newest lowest mileage KIA he can afford

[ilikejam]

Does he need 4/5 doors / hatch type car? Does he have a specific age limit in mind?

Go for something a bit more 'unfashionable' like an Infiniti Q60 and get a ridiculous amount of car for the money:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202110138...


4 series GC

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202112110...


Peugeot 508 - lacking in the "oomph" factor, but looks the part!

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202112080...

[Decky_Q]

Speaking from my own experience at that age, 5 years is too long for a finance agreement. I took out a 4 year loan at 23, it was great paying £350 a month when the car was new to me but a few years down the line I was still paying the same for what was now an older more worn car and I resented it. 5 years is a long time to stay with a car in my opinion.

Better to borrow a bit less and limit himself to 3 or 4 years maximum repayment for a happy life.

I wouldn't worry about mileage as long as he has money left to maintain and repair the car properly.

[georgeyboy12345]

Just had a quick look on autotrader, if you are worried about high miles, there are plenty of good cars with low mileage available for around £17,000

Kia Proceed GT with a couple of years left on the warranty with 18000 miles
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202110288...


Seat Leon FRs

1.8 TSI 5800 miles
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202112040...

2.0 TDI 11,600 miles
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111269...


Audi A3s

1.8 TFSI S-Line 25,000 miles
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111039...

2.0 TDI S-Line 23,000 miles
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111129...


BMW 1 Series

125i M Sport 22,000 miles
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109247...

120d M Sport 29,000 miles
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111039...


VW Golfs

GTI 28,000 miles
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202108025...

GTD 30,000 miles
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202112130...


Skoda Octavia vRS

2.0 TFSI 33,000 miles
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111199...

2.0 TDI 44,000 miles
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202112030...


Mercedes A-Class

A250 45,000 miles
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202109177...

A220d 4-Matic 86,000 miles, but these OM651 engines can run for 500,000 miles if you keep up on basic maintenance
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202110148...


Renault Megane GT 29,000 miles
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111039...


Higher powered stuff, insurance might still be an issue in his mid-20s - depends how much he is prepared to spend

Alfa Romeo Giulietta TBi - solid engines as long as the cambelt gets done and a lack of oil changes will kill the turbo, so FSH is important. Here are two nice ones

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202112030...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202104091...


Ford Focus ST
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202110078...


Peugeot 308 GTi - forged motors on these so they are solid, but the brakes are pretty expensive!
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111159...

[Anastie]

Again thanks all. The links to options are really helpful including some cars I would not have thought of. I'll show him this tonight. Clearly, I was overthinking the mileage issue. I do need to persuade him to reduce the loan term IMO.

[georgeyboy12345]

Anastie said:

Again thanks all. The links to options are really helpful including some cars I would not have thought of. I'll show him this tonight. Clearly, I was overthinking the mileage issue. I do need to persuade him to reduce the loan term IMO.

A 5 year loan term is ok as long as you can afford the monthly payments. I am financing a £11,475 car on a 5 year loan - £2700 cash, £2500 trade in on my old car, then £6275 financed over 5 years at 2.8 % APR is £112 a month. Once I get to 3 years I might decide to settle and get a new car, or I'll just continue for another 2 if I want to keep the car longer.

[Zwei Bier bitte]

Anastie said:

Again thanks all. The links to options are really helpful including some cars I would not have thought of. I'll show him this tonight. Clearly, I was overthinking the mileage issue. I do need to persuade him to reduce the loan term IMO.

I wouldn't worry about the long term, you can overpay most loans. One issue he might have is APR...they advertise a decent rate however once he whacks his details in it will differ from the headline rate.

For example my daughter wanted a £12k loan. Decent job, mortgage etc but she couldn't get anywhere near the 2.8% my wife could, result was the missus took the loan out and she pays us back.

[CG2020UK]

I’m 26 myself so can relate to your son.

From personal experience if your son is already wanting oomph the civic might not last 4 years. This has happened to friends of mine who locked themselves into STs for 5 years then 18months later guys with less interest in cars where buying faster m135is, S3s and GTI/Rs.

Maybe I could make a different suggestion you could run the numbers on and decide.

£17K loan is going to be over £320 a month most likely for mid twenties. This is buying him what is in my opinion a really nice car but it isn’t anything unique as most people will just see a civic and not a Type-R.

Alternatively sell his car and use the money to lease a new Cupra Leon VZ2 for 4 years which would be a different level of car for the same price monthly and without the worry of maintenance.

Problem is used cars are massively over inflated now it ridiculous.

[Pothole]

Anastie said:

My mid-twenties son wants to replace his 10-year-old Mazda 3 Takua (think thats the right spelling)

He has a budget up to £17,000, Wants the car to have a bit of oomph, be reliable, and "look good". He has a few cars shortlisted but he is leaning towards a 2019 ex Motability Honda Civic with 51,000 miles. He wants to keep the car for 5 years as thats the term he wants a loan for.

My view on cars at my 50 years plus age was always that things start to go wrong on higher mileage cars. Based on my own experience in my 20's of large repair bills on Minis, Fords etc. So my advice I think is biased!! This Civic would have over 100,000 miles on it by 5 years.

Whats the advice from the PH community? Am I wrong to steer him away from high mileage cars? Does mileage still matter?

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202111189...

On another note I know the used car market pricing is crazy at present and i wonder if waiting for used prices to settle would be good advice?

Appreciate any thoughts?

Take a step back and think hard about you experiences. This was 20+ years ago. Were those cars 5 years old? Were they built like a modern Honda? Reliability has gone through the roof. If my opinion is worth anything to you, steer him away from borrowing that much money for a vehicle unless it'll be his main hobby. Why on earth would he have paid £500 a month before for a car? Madness. If you can't do that, as others have said, mileage doesn't matter as much as condition and service/maintenance history these days.

[covmutley]

Pothole said:

Take a step back and think hard about you experiences. This was 20+ years ago. Were those cars 5 years old? Were they built like a modern Honda? Reliability has gone through the roof. If my opinion is worth anything to you, steer him away from borrowing that much money for a vehicle unless it'll be his main hobby. Why on earth would he have paid £500 a month before for a car? Madness. If you can't do that, as others have said, mileage doesn't matter as much as condition and service/maintenance history these days.

I agree with this. Its a lot of money for a car with not that much oomph, and doesnt look very good. Does he actually want to keep it for 5 years, or is he just telling himself that because he is stretching the loan out to make it affordable?

Perhaps stick to a 3 year loan (£10k?) and something around 2013/2014 year? Moving to someting less nice looking quicker would generally get him something newer I guess.

[Anastie]

As ever PH has raised excellent points. I'm also trying to steer him away from my bad habits in my 20's, 30's and even 40's if I'm honest when I would some years change my car twice a year and regret the increased expenditure.

Discussed the points raised with him last night and may have steered him in the direction of a lower budget and a lower repayment term but who knows

IMO leasing again through the NHS for a couple of years would be his best option but he refuses to do that.