Electric vs Diesel Dilemma

[jacko198]

Hi Guys,

Im wondering what to do car wise. I have a R53 Mini Cooper S at the moment, I used to do maybe 8k miles a year and it was a great little run around. I can squeeze 40mpg out of it.

I have just moved further north and so Im calculating I potentially will be doing up to 18k a year now.

It is 200 miles to my base, although I can drive anywhere in the country for work.

Originally I thought, simple, an electric car! But they are so bloody expensive I'm not sure it makes sense.

I want to put down around £2k and want to keep the monthly as low as possible. For a Hyundai Kona it would be £490 a month! It seems to be the cheapest electric option which can do over 200 miles on a charge.

My other option is a diesel with mad MPG. I have had 1.5 Clio's and Meganes before and can easily get 80mpg out of them, I can get one with 40k miles for less than 10k. A little boring but Im not sure much can compete with the MPG!

I would say the following would apply:-
Electric car - £490/Month + £150 charging (As a wild guess)
Clio 1.5 - £150/Month + £130 Diesel


Am I missing a trick with the electric cars, is there any in particular I have missed? I know that the actual cost to charge them will be less but I cant see that combined with a high monthly price would be worth it.

Maybe I have answered my own question!

[Canon_Fodder]

can't say I'd fancy 1800 miles p.a. in an old Clio, let alone 18000

The Megane would be much better

[ToastMan76]

At 40mpg you would be saving pretty much whatever you do by not changing. I do between 40-50mpg in a 2.0l petrol Mazda3 and used to do 25k per year.

[SWoll]

Buy the used diesel. You aren't comparing apples with apples so an EV is always going to end up being considerably more expensive and for your use case you have limited options anyway.

Give it a couple of years and things may well have changed.

[anonymous-user]

For six months I did 2500 miles a month in a MK2 Diesel Megane with the five speed gearbox and it was fine. I am sure a much more modern Clio or Megane would be fine for 1500 miles a month.

I personally would go diesel all day long.

[kurokawa]

1.5 diesel on a motorway journey? Coming from R53 S? It will be very dreadful.

I used to drive a MK5 GTi then move to a 1.6D when I need to drive 160miles a day. Save me about £1500 fuel a year but the driving experience was hell.

I think the MG5 LR is cheaper but not too sure about 200mile on a charge.

If you are going to get a new car then I would pick a EV over diesel. If you going used 1.5 diesel, I would just keep using the R53 and wait for more EV come to the market

[ChrisH72]

What would your cash budget be if you sold your mini plus the 2k deposit you have planned?

I'm thinking spend less on a more interesting diesel which may not be so great economy wise but have no monthly payments?

[ZX10R NIN]

Go for something with a decent amount of go because they'll be geared longer & therefore be more relaxing when you're covering 18k a year so a 2.0d Megane/Giulietta etc would be my pick.

[georgeyboy12345]

In your scenario, I'd be getting something like this BMW 320d ED+
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202202242...

Get an unsecured personal loan of £9000 over 5 years, that should cost around £160 a month at 2.8 % APR, add your £2k deposit and you have the asking price.

These cars are zero tax and are capable of 85 mpg and 1000 miles to a tank on a steady run, at the same time being a nicer place to be, a nicer drive and faster than a Clio.

Yes it has 100,000 miles on it, but it has a full dealership history and 6 month warranty. There is one of these 320 EDs on sale on autotrader with over 250,000 miles on it, so they can do the miles. After 5 years of your ownership, this car would be at 190,000 miles.

[ZX10R NIN]

If you were going to spend 9k these are where I'd be looking.

Insignia Elite Nav it's an obvious answer but also a sensible one that'll see you right for a long time:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202110238...

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202203013...

SRI Nav:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202201271...

V40 D3 SE Lux

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202201211...

D3 R Design:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202110309...

[volvos60s60]

I have a similar quandary. I should add that I only buy cars outright to avoid monthly costs/high mileage penalties/damage penalties/being trapped into a PCP type ongoing cycle

We have a 2014 diesel Evoque, 50000 miles, perfect condition. We live just a few miles outside Greater London - at the end of next year ULEZ will be rolled out to all of Greater London & many of our journeys are into the London outer suburbs, so £12.50 to be paid 3 or 4 times a week from late 2023 onwards. The reality is that the engine suits the car so well, but is rapidly being seen as running on the Devil's fuel

If I hold off for another 12 months, the Evoque, currently worth about £14K, will be a very hard car to sell with presumably significant depreciation

SUV type body style is ideal for us for family use.

Simiiar quality all electric cars are £50K ish new, not much cheaper used, so not really an option. Also really concerned about the fact that the more EVs are sold, the charging infrastructure is going to be shown up to be wholly inadequate. Although I can charge at home which means that only impacts long, infrequent journeys. I also think EV charging will attract a future tax levy in lieu of lost fuel duty, but that is a whole other argument that is probably not for this thread

Another newer diesel SUV is not a great move for us considering ULEZ, & Khan's constant moving of the goalposts, so all diesels are at risk of being caught soon. Petrol SUVs are too uneconomical & may also be caught out by near future rule changes.

So what to do, options i see are:

1. Do nothing, keep the Evoque, see value plummet, cough up the ULEZ charges at say £50/week
2. Look at all electric SUV - too expensive
3. Petrol SUV - Too thirsty
4. Hybrid SUV - maybe something like a used a hybrid Toyota CHR at about £18K as a short term get out of jail fix until better alternatives are available - the thing is the Evoque is a much nicer thing to drive & sit in than a CHR - so a definite case of paying more for a lesser car
5. PHEV Hybrid - As option 4 but just more expensive

What would you guys do?

Edited by volvos60s60 on Wednesday 9th March 11:57

Edited by volvos60s60 on Wednesday 9th March 12:03

Edited by volvos60s60 on Wednesday 9th March 12:05

[SWoll]

volvos60s60 said:

I have a similar quandary. I should add that I only buy cars outright to avoid monthly costs/high mileage penalties/damage penalties/being trapped into a PCP type ongoing cycle

We have a 2014 diesel Evoque, 50000 miles, perfect condition. we live just a few miles outside Greater London - at the end of next year ULEZ will be rolled out & many of our journeys are into the London outer suburbs, so £12.50 to be paid 3 or 4 times a week from late 2023 onwards.

If I hold off for another 12 months, the Evoque, currently worth about £14K, will be a very hard car to sell with presumably significant depreciation

SUV type body style is ideal for us for family use. Similiar quality all electric car are £50K ish new, not much cheaper used, so not really an option.

Another newer diesel SUV is not a great move for us considering ULEZ, & Khan's constant moving of the goalposts, so all diesels are at risk of being caught soon. Petrol SUVs are too uneconomical & may also be caught out by near future rule changes.

So what to do, options i see are:

1. Do nothing, keep the Evoque, see value plummet, cough up the ULEZ charges at say £50/week
2. Look at all electric SUV - too expensive
3. Petrol SUV - Too thirsty
4. Hybrid SUV - maybe used a hybrid Toyota CHR at about £18K as a short term get out of jail fix until better alternatives are available - the thing is the Evoque is a much nicer thing to drive & sit in than a CHR - so a definite case of paying more for a lesser car
5. PHEV Hybrid - As option 4 but just more expensive

What would you guys do?

You say too expensive when comparing an EV SUV, but have you done a TCO comparison between what you have and what a suitable EV would actually cost you?

ULEZ, VED, fuel, maintenance, depreciation etc. all have to be factored into the comparison so what do you calculate the monthly cost of that lot will average out at over the next 3 years for example if you keep the Evoque?

[andyalan10]

volvos60s60 said:

So what to do, options i see are:

1. Do nothing, keep the Evoque, see value plummet, cough up the ULEZ charges at say £50/week
2. Look at all electric SUV - too expensive
3. Petrol SUV - Too thirsty
4. Hybrid SUV - maybe something like a used a hybrid Toyota CHR at about £18K as a short term get out of jail fix until better alternatives are available - the thing is the Evoque is a much nicer thing to drive & sit in than a CHR - so a definite case of paying more for a lesser car
5. PHEV Hybrid - As option 4 but just more expensive

What would you guys do?

Without knowing your access to home charging, or mix of journey lengths I'm not certain. But a quick look on Autotrader up to £20k, PHEV shows quite a few options, so not much dearer than your quoted CHR example.

Mini Countryman, BMW 2 series, as well as a huge choice of Mitsubishi Outlanders, yes the Mitsubishi is "not as nice to sit in", but you have to decide if that's worth £40-50/week to you. Personally in your shoes I'd be leaning towards a Passat Estate PHEV if I did many long journeys, Mitsubishi, then Mini if I didn't.

[oilslick]

volvos60s60 said:

I have a similar quandary. I should add that I only buy cars outright to avoid monthly costs/high mileage penalties/damage penalties/being trapped into a PCP type ongoing cycle

We have a 2014 diesel Evoque, 50000 miles, perfect condition. We live just a few miles outside Greater London - at the end of next year ULEZ will be rolled out to all of Greater London & many of our journeys are into the London outer suburbs, so £12.50 to be paid 3 or 4 times a week from late 2023 onwards. The reality is that the engine suits the car so well, but is rapidly being seen as running on the Devil's fuel

If I hold off for another 12 months, the Evoque, currently worth about £14K, will be a very hard car to sell with presumably significant depreciation

SUV type body style is ideal for us for family use.

Simiiar quality all electric cars are £50K ish new, not much cheaper used, so not really an option. Also really concerned about the fact that the more EVs are sold, the charging infrastructure is going to be shown up to be wholly inadequate. Although I can charge at home which means that only impacts long, infrequent journeys. I also think EV charging will attract a future tax levy in lieu of lost fuel duty, but that is a whole other argument that is probably not for this thread

Another newer diesel SUV is not a great move for us considering ULEZ, & Khan's constant moving of the goalposts, so all diesels are at risk of being caught soon. Petrol SUVs are too uneconomical & may also be caught out by near future rule changes.

So what to do, options i see are:

1. Do nothing, keep the Evoque, see value plummet, cough up the ULEZ charges at say £50/week
2. Look at all electric SUV - too expensive
3. Petrol SUV - Too thirsty
4. Hybrid SUV - maybe something like a used a hybrid Toyota CHR at about £18K as a short term get out of jail fix until better alternatives are available - the thing is the Evoque is a much nicer thing to drive & sit in than a CHR - so a definite case of paying more for a lesser car
5. PHEV Hybrid - As option 4 but just more expensive

What would you guys do?

Start my own thread instead of hijacking someone else's!

[SWoll]

oilslick said:

Start my own thread instead of hijacking someone else's!

[kurokawa]

georgeyboy12345 said:

In your scenario, I'd be getting something like this BMW 320d ED+
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202202242...

Get an unsecured personal loan of £9000 over 5 years, that should cost around £160 a month at 2.8 % APR, add your £2k deposit and you have the asking price.

These cars are zero tax and are capable of 85 mpg and 1000 miles to a tank on a steady run, at the same time being a nicer place to be, a nicer drive and faster than a Clio.

Yes it has 100,000 miles on it, but it has a full dealership history and 6 month warranty. There is one of these 320 EDs on sale on autotrader with over 250,000 miles on it, so they can do the miles. After 5 years of your ownership, this car would be at 190,000 miles.

you will be lucky to get more than 65mpg on that
I had one, done B'ham to Oxford round trip for 3 months, almost entirely motorway and dual carriageway, I get about 61mpg by doing 60mph behind lorry

[andburg]

I think the problem you will have with electric is charging rate......

if your doing 200+ miles per day you're going to be on a 7kw home charger for 10hours every day,

• *MY VERY ROUGH AND LIKELY WRONG COST COMPARISONS***

cost of fuel at 80+mpg is probably not far from the cost of EV charging at 28p/kw so to make it work you need a proper off-peak EV electricity rate ~9p is available and would be really beneficial.

70kwh battery for 250+ claimed miles

Lets rough that up at £6(£19 non EV tarriff) per charge (230 miles as a guide at low 3's mpkw) vs £18 in diesel at 80mpg

30 days use - £180 electric vs £540 in diesel

then its the other bits, lower cost servicing on an EV, no VED or LEZ fees.

[Alfa Pete]

kurokawa said:

georgeyboy12345 said:

In your scenario, I'd be getting something like this BMW 320d ED+
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202202242...

Get an unsecured personal loan of £9000 over 5 years, that should cost around £160 a month at 2.8 % APR, add your £2k deposit and you have the asking price.

These cars are zero tax and are capable of 85 mpg and 1000 miles to a tank on a steady run, at the same time being a nicer place to be, a nicer drive and faster than a Clio.

Yes it has 100,000 miles on it, but it has a full dealership history and 6 month warranty. There is one of these 320 EDs on sale on autotrader with over 250,000 miles on it, so they can do the miles. After 5 years of your ownership, this car would be at 190,000 miles.

you will be lucky to get more than 65mpg on that
I had one, done B'ham to Oxford round trip for 3 months, almost entirely motorway and dual carriageway, I get about 61mpg by doing 60mph behind lorry

Indeed . I ran a 320ed as a company car. My real world long term average over 2 years use was 57mpg 50/50 urban / motorway . I could easily get mid 60s average on mostly motorway runs.
Still hugely impressive for the size of car and performance though.
I’ve since had several 2.0 litre diesels an Insignia 2.0Cdti Elite , Merc A200d , Golf GTD and Mini Clubman 2.0Cooper SD and none of them got near the 320ed, for fuel economy.
Those all returned high 40s, average.

[Alfa Pete]

volvos60s60 said:

I have a similar quandary. I should add that I only buy cars outright to avoid monthly costs/high mileage penalties/damage penalties/being trapped into a PCP type ongoing cycle

We have a 2014 diesel Evoque, 50000 miles, perfect condition. We live just a few miles outside Greater London - at the end of next year ULEZ will be rolled out to all of Greater London & many of our journeys are into the London outer suburbs, so £12.50 to be paid 3 or 4 times a week from late 2023 onwards. The reality is that the engine suits the car so well, but is rapidly being seen as running on the Devil's fuel

If I hold off for another 12 months, the Evoque, currently worth about £14K, will be a very hard car to sell with presumably significant depreciation

SUV type body style is ideal for us for family use.

Simiiar quality all electric cars are £50K ish new, not much cheaper used, so not really an option. Also really concerned about the fact that the more EVs are sold, the charging infrastructure is going to be shown up to be wholly inadequate. Although I can charge at home which means that only impacts long, infrequent journeys. I also think EV charging will attract a future tax levy in lieu of lost fuel duty, but that is a whole other argument that is probably not for this thread

Another newer diesel SUV is not a great move for us considering ULEZ, & Khan's constant moving of the goalposts, so all diesels are at risk of being caught soon. Petrol SUVs are too uneconomical & may also be caught out by near future rule changes.

So what to do, options i see are:

1. Do nothing, keep the Evoque, see value plummet, cough up the ULEZ charges at say £50/week
2. Look at all electric SUV - too expensive
3. Petrol SUV - Too thirsty
4. Hybrid SUV - maybe something like a used a hybrid Toyota CHR at about £18K as a short term get out of jail fix until better alternatives are available - the thing is the Evoque is a much nicer thing to drive & sit in than a CHR - so a definite case of paying more for a lesser car
5. PHEV Hybrid - As option 4 but just more expensive

What would you guys do?

Edited by volvos60s60 on Wednesday 9th March 11:57

Edited by volvos60s60 on Wednesday 9th March 12:03

Edited by volvos60s60 on Wednesday 9th March 12:05

Worth mentioning, that any diesel that meets Euro 6 , so generally post 2015 is ULEZ compliant. (At the moment….)

[Alfa Pete]

Canon_Fodder said:

can't say I'd fancy 1800 miles p.a. in an old Clio, let alone 18000

The Megane would be much better

But the current Clio would be quite happy. I recently had a Clio 1.0 petrol for a few weeks while my car was in for warranty work and whilst not the last word in refinement I did a few 150 mile trips in it just fine.