E92 M3 or 996 c2? (Or Z4m?)
Discussion
This forum is littered with these comparisons, but I havent seen any recently, so thought I'd ask again
This year I'm in the market for a £25k (tops) mostly weekend / very occasional trackday car / manual / fast (obvs) / RWD / a bit special (so m140's etc dont appeal) are the criteria. 4 seats would be a boon so can go on family trips, but prob not essential. Browsing the classifieds these 2/3 cars fit the bill. As I see it the pros and cons are the below, but these are not based on driving them. SO i'd love to hear from people who own either or have made this choice:
e92
+ fits the critera perfectly
+ v fast and great chassis.
- Is it only all about that engine?
- Heavy and quite big (not a huge garage)
- Its still just a 3 series - not got the cache of the porsche (highly subjective I know)
996 gen2
+ smaller and ligher than M3
+ 315bhp still fast enough for road, a better driving experience than the bmw (opinions on this welcome)
- budget older + prob higher mileage than bmw - ok if good service history
- THOSE reliability stories
Z4M
+ That engine (carbon airbox is the best sound ever)
+ certainly fast enough
+ great price seeing e46 m3 prices
- obvs 2 seat only
- notriously stiff - would prob need new suspension all round which is a cost
any other ideas? E46 are now too expensive, 997 i'd want a Carrera s which I think it a bit out of budget, Maybe just find a 996 C4S. Maybe Elise, but prob a bit too raw for what I want.
Let me know your thoughts!
This year I'm in the market for a £25k (tops) mostly weekend / very occasional trackday car / manual / fast (obvs) / RWD / a bit special (so m140's etc dont appeal) are the criteria. 4 seats would be a boon so can go on family trips, but prob not essential. Browsing the classifieds these 2/3 cars fit the bill. As I see it the pros and cons are the below, but these are not based on driving them. SO i'd love to hear from people who own either or have made this choice:
e92
+ fits the critera perfectly
+ v fast and great chassis.
- Is it only all about that engine?
- Heavy and quite big (not a huge garage)
- Its still just a 3 series - not got the cache of the porsche (highly subjective I know)
996 gen2
+ smaller and ligher than M3
+ 315bhp still fast enough for road, a better driving experience than the bmw (opinions on this welcome)
- budget older + prob higher mileage than bmw - ok if good service history
- THOSE reliability stories
Z4M
+ That engine (carbon airbox is the best sound ever)
+ certainly fast enough
+ great price seeing e46 m3 prices
- obvs 2 seat only
- notriously stiff - would prob need new suspension all round which is a cost
any other ideas? E46 are now too expensive, 997 i'd want a Carrera s which I think it a bit out of budget, Maybe just find a 996 C4S. Maybe Elise, but prob a bit too raw for what I want.
Let me know your thoughts!
Out of those three, the Z4M is the only one that I would see driving down the road and think ooo nice.
I wouldn't bother tracking it though, I'd just get it looking as immaculate as I could, maybe change the suspension if it bothered me and just have something nice to take for a spin of a weekend.
I wouldn't bother tracking it though, I'd just get it looking as immaculate as I could, maybe change the suspension if it bothered me and just have something nice to take for a spin of a weekend.
I went through a similar process myself 18 months ago and all these cars were on my list:
E92 M3- I decided not special enough to just ify the potential bork factor, as much as I love an M3 the consensus I found was that it feels like a normal 3 series unless pushing it hard.
996- I love these, bore scoring is always in the back of my mind and I felt probably not really appropriate as a daily driver in the end, still a big fan though.
Z4M- Again I love these too, lack of rear seats in the end made me look elsewhere, I also considered a Cayman S and came to the same conclusion.
In the end I bought a BMW M240i which in itself is not the perfect car but as a daily drive for me working on a 20k budget as I was at the time was the best all round choice, I still lvoe the car now 18 months on, I should caveat it though that I also have a Porsche 986 Boxster now which is my toy and the Porsche feels more of an event when I drive it in the way that I don't think any of the BMW's can really match.
E92 M3- I decided not special enough to just ify the potential bork factor, as much as I love an M3 the consensus I found was that it feels like a normal 3 series unless pushing it hard.
996- I love these, bore scoring is always in the back of my mind and I felt probably not really appropriate as a daily driver in the end, still a big fan though.
Z4M- Again I love these too, lack of rear seats in the end made me look elsewhere, I also considered a Cayman S and came to the same conclusion.
In the end I bought a BMW M240i which in itself is not the perfect car but as a daily drive for me working on a 20k budget as I was at the time was the best all round choice, I still lvoe the car now 18 months on, I should caveat it though that I also have a Porsche 986 Boxster now which is my toy and the Porsche feels more of an event when I drive it in the way that I don't think any of the BMW's can really match.
Al U said:
Out of those three, the Z4M is the only one that I would see driving down the road and think ooo nice.
I wouldn't bother tracking it though, I'd just get it looking as immaculate as I could, maybe change the suspension if it bothered me and just have something nice to take for a spin of a weekend.
For me, I think the Z4M, if i saw it driving down the road, I'd think 'dont see them that often', but strangely not much more. If i saw a z3m clown shoe, I would do a full ooo nice though. I wouldn't bother tracking it though, I'd just get it looking as immaculate as I could, maybe change the suspension if it bothered me and just have something nice to take for a spin of a weekend.
SWoll said:
I did think these, but i'm not sure how relaxed i'd be in a high milage lotus. Also i remember a 5th gear review saying these were a bit underpowered, the Evora S or 400 I like, but cannot afford. Jamescrs said:
I went through a similar process myself 18 months ago and all these cars were on my list:
E92 M3- I decided not special enough to just ify the potential bork factor, as much as I love an M3 the consensus I found was that it feels like a normal 3 series unless pushing it hard.
996- I love these, bore scoring is always in the back of my mind and I felt probably not really appropriate as a daily driver in the end, still a big fan though.
Z4M- Again I love these too, lack of rear seats in the end made me look elsewhere, I also considered a Cayman S and came to the same conclusion.
In the end I bought a BMW M240i which in itself is not the perfect car but as a daily drive for me working on a 20k budget as I was at the time was the best all round choice, I still lvoe the car now 18 months on, I should caveat it though that I also have a Porsche 986 Boxster now which is my toy and the Porsche feels more of an event when I drive it in the way that I don't think any of the BMW's can really match.
I'm not in the market for a daily, so that does work in the porsche's favour. I like your point on the porsche feels a bit more like an event to drive - I have a nagging feeling that if I got a M3, an saw a 996 coming the other way, id feel like i might have made the wrong decision. E92 M3- I decided not special enough to just ify the potential bork factor, as much as I love an M3 the consensus I found was that it feels like a normal 3 series unless pushing it hard.
996- I love these, bore scoring is always in the back of my mind and I felt probably not really appropriate as a daily driver in the end, still a big fan though.
Z4M- Again I love these too, lack of rear seats in the end made me look elsewhere, I also considered a Cayman S and came to the same conclusion.
In the end I bought a BMW M240i which in itself is not the perfect car but as a daily drive for me working on a 20k budget as I was at the time was the best all round choice, I still lvoe the car now 18 months on, I should caveat it though that I also have a Porsche 986 Boxster now which is my toy and the Porsche feels more of an event when I drive it in the way that I don't think any of the BMW's can really match.
jwbc1984 said:
SWoll said:
I did think these, but i'm not sure how relaxed i'd be in a high milage lotus. Also i remember a 5th gear review saying these were a bit underpowered, the Evora S or 400 I like, but cannot afford. At < 5 to 60 it'll be as quick as anything else on your list in a straight line, and quicker around track or on a B road I'd suggest.
jwbc1984 said:
I'm not in the market for a daily, so that does work in the porsche's favour. I like your point on the porsche feels a bit more like an event to drive - I have a nagging feeling that if I got a M3, an saw a 996 coming the other way, id feel like i might have made the wrong decision.
I doubt it, especially with an induction kit from evolve. That V8 is a beauty.Edited by SWoll on Monday 11th April 15:58
SWoll said:
That's been for sale ages! Remember seeing it when browsing, in fact the URL confirms it '2021101'Looks awesome though.
SWoll said:
jwbc1984 said:
SWoll said:
I did think these, but i'm not sure how relaxed i'd be in a high milage lotus. Also i remember a 5th gear review saying these were a bit underpowered, the Evora S or 400 I like, but cannot afford. At < 5 to 60 it'll be as quick as anything else on your list in a straight line, and quicker around track or on a B road I'd suggest.
SWoll said:
I doubt it, especially with an induction kit from evolve. That V8 is a beauty.
I spend an unhealthy amount of time watching yt vids of evolve induction kits on e46 / e92 m3s. I think its prob one of the main reasons the m3 and z4m is on the shortlistEdited by SWoll on Monday 11th April 15:58
I recently moved on an E92 M3 for a 996 C2 as I wasn't needing the car for everyday use. The M3 is great and the engine is a work of art but it feels just like a normal 3 series unless you're going for it, also I don't think it is special enough for a "weekend car". The 996 feels special every time I drive it and doesn't feel slower than the M3 on the road, in fact it feels more willing as you don't have to thrash it to get the power. Your budget is enough to get a really good example. Get a proper inspection and borescope done before purchase and enjoy. I can't speak for the Z4M as I've never even sat in one, although they do look like they'd be a better weekend car than the M3.
I had a Z4M roadster for a few years and I’ve got an early 997 C2S now. Z4M was a halo car for me as i love the way they look and the engine is subliminal.
Personally I found the Z4 ride and overall handling not to my taste with the “sat over rear wheels” feeling. That’s with fresh springs etc. so it’s more a problem with me than car issue. The M3 probably a better fit for me to be honest but finding one that wasn’t rough as hell when I was buying was a pain.
I was daily driving the Z4M which wasn’t its natural place whereas the 911 is used sparingly. Maybe I got these cars in the wrong order?!
997 drives very differently and feels great on the road. Well suited to my probably rubbish/conservative driving style. Quite composed but I do miss some of the craziness from the S54 engine! The torque and balance of the 997 makes it very usable and fast in the real world I’ve found.
They are old cars now though (both are to be fair). I think both will throw bills for bits and pieces regularly and I think the Porsche a little more so. Parts and DIY guides are readily available and with an indi or local garage labour is the same on both for general work. 997 more supported online with Rennlist and tons of YouTube content.
M3 / Z4M regular costs were quite high - servicing and tax stood out for me as I didn’t do much mileage so the 2yr service interval and £550ish road tax added up. Affordable and budgeted for - but value for money can niggle.
Both have engine issues that are quite specialist to fix or prevent. I personally went with a rebuilt 997, but my Z4 hadn’t had the bearings done.
£25k I would have thought would get you a 997 if you prefer it - the Carrera and CS were not too far apart price wise when I bought but market might have moved on. The main thing is the spec of the S seemed to be generally better when I was looking so hard to compare like for like.
After the Z4 I looked at a 996 C4S. I just preferred the 997 appearance and interior to be totally honest so that swung it for me.
I am getting access to a garage to put the car in soon - it has crossed my mind to sell the 997 and get another Z4M (coupe this time!) and SORN it over winter to half the road tax making it more of a high days and holidays car which it would suit well - so both can get under your skin if you use them right!
If you’re local you are welcome to have a look around the car if it helps.
Personally I found the Z4 ride and overall handling not to my taste with the “sat over rear wheels” feeling. That’s with fresh springs etc. so it’s more a problem with me than car issue. The M3 probably a better fit for me to be honest but finding one that wasn’t rough as hell when I was buying was a pain.
I was daily driving the Z4M which wasn’t its natural place whereas the 911 is used sparingly. Maybe I got these cars in the wrong order?!
997 drives very differently and feels great on the road. Well suited to my probably rubbish/conservative driving style. Quite composed but I do miss some of the craziness from the S54 engine! The torque and balance of the 997 makes it very usable and fast in the real world I’ve found.
They are old cars now though (both are to be fair). I think both will throw bills for bits and pieces regularly and I think the Porsche a little more so. Parts and DIY guides are readily available and with an indi or local garage labour is the same on both for general work. 997 more supported online with Rennlist and tons of YouTube content.
M3 / Z4M regular costs were quite high - servicing and tax stood out for me as I didn’t do much mileage so the 2yr service interval and £550ish road tax added up. Affordable and budgeted for - but value for money can niggle.
Both have engine issues that are quite specialist to fix or prevent. I personally went with a rebuilt 997, but my Z4 hadn’t had the bearings done.
£25k I would have thought would get you a 997 if you prefer it - the Carrera and CS were not too far apart price wise when I bought but market might have moved on. The main thing is the spec of the S seemed to be generally better when I was looking so hard to compare like for like.
After the Z4 I looked at a 996 C4S. I just preferred the 997 appearance and interior to be totally honest so that swung it for me.
I am getting access to a garage to put the car in soon - it has crossed my mind to sell the 997 and get another Z4M (coupe this time!) and SORN it over winter to half the road tax making it more of a high days and holidays car which it would suit well - so both can get under your skin if you use them right!
If you’re local you are welcome to have a look around the car if it helps.
They're hard to find but keep an eye out for a manual C6 Corvette as they're a very good steer & will do a trackday with ease as well as feeling special:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125209362369?hash=item1...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125209362369?hash=item1...
I've had both a Z4M Roadster and a E92 M3(manual). For me the M3 was head and shoulders the better car to drive, because its suspension/ride/chassis were miles better than the Z4Ms.
I did however like the 2 seat set up in the Z4M which helped make it feel special I thought. Neither have great manual gearboxes, but the M3s gearbox was far better than the Z4Ms for me.
The Z4Ms suspension doesn't have any give in it, so it feels very nervy to drive when you are pushing on down a bumpy B road. The M3 is controlled and very compliant in comparison.
I did however like the 2 seat set up in the Z4M which helped make it feel special I thought. Neither have great manual gearboxes, but the M3s gearbox was far better than the Z4Ms for me.
The Z4Ms suspension doesn't have any give in it, so it feels very nervy to drive when you are pushing on down a bumpy B road. The M3 is controlled and very compliant in comparison.
ZX10R NIN said:
They're hard to find but keep an eye out for a manual C6 Corvette as they're a very good steer & will do a trackday with ease as well as feeling special:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125209362369?hash=item1...
Fantastic left field choice. I hired one of these a few years back on holiday in florida. Lasting memories were: 1) monster engine and noise 2) even though it was a bog standard hertz rental vette, people just loved it where ever we went 3) it had done just over 1k miles and 4 bits of trim fell off in our week. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/125209362369?hash=item1...
Lhd only would make make it a non starter for me.
CrouchingWayne said:
I had a Z4M roadster for a few years and I’ve got an early 997 C2S now. Z4M was a halo car for me as i love the way they look and the engine is subliminal.
Personally I found the Z4 ride and overall handling not to my taste with the “sat over rear wheels” feeling. That’s with fresh springs etc. so it’s more a problem with me than car issue. The M3 probably a better fit for me to be honest but finding one that wasn’t rough as hell when I was buying was a pain.
I was daily driving the Z4M which wasn’t its natural place whereas the 911 is used sparingly. Maybe I got these cars in the wrong order?!
997 drives very differently and feels great on the road. Well suited to my probably rubbish/conservative driving style. Quite composed but I do miss some of the craziness from the S54 engine! The torque and balance of the 997 makes it very usable and fast in the real world I’ve found.
They are old cars now though (both are to be fair). I think both will throw bills for bits and pieces regularly and I think the Porsche a little more so. Parts and DIY guides are readily available and with an indi or local garage labour is the same on both for general work. 997 more supported online with Rennlist and tons of YouTube content.
M3 / Z4M regular costs were quite high - servicing and tax stood out for me as I didn’t do much mileage so the 2yr service interval and £550ish road tax added up. Affordable and budgeted for - but value for money can niggle.
Both have engine issues that are quite specialist to fix or prevent. I personally went with a rebuilt 997, but my Z4 hadn’t had the bearings done.
£25k I would have thought would get you a 997 if you prefer it - the Carrera and CS were not too far apart price wise when I bought but market might have moved on. The main thing is the spec of the S seemed to be generally better when I was looking so hard to compare like for like.
After the Z4 I looked at a 996 C4S. I just preferred the 997 appearance and interior to be totally honest so that swung it for me.
I am getting access to a garage to put the car in soon - it has crossed my mind to sell the 997 and get another Z4M (coupe this time!) and SORN it over winter to half the road tax making it more of a high days and holidays car which it would suit well - so both can get under your skin if you use them right!
If you’re local you are welcome to have a look around the car if it helps.
This is fantastic, thankyou. Personally I found the Z4 ride and overall handling not to my taste with the “sat over rear wheels” feeling. That’s with fresh springs etc. so it’s more a problem with me than car issue. The M3 probably a better fit for me to be honest but finding one that wasn’t rough as hell when I was buying was a pain.
I was daily driving the Z4M which wasn’t its natural place whereas the 911 is used sparingly. Maybe I got these cars in the wrong order?!
997 drives very differently and feels great on the road. Well suited to my probably rubbish/conservative driving style. Quite composed but I do miss some of the craziness from the S54 engine! The torque and balance of the 997 makes it very usable and fast in the real world I’ve found.
They are old cars now though (both are to be fair). I think both will throw bills for bits and pieces regularly and I think the Porsche a little more so. Parts and DIY guides are readily available and with an indi or local garage labour is the same on both for general work. 997 more supported online with Rennlist and tons of YouTube content.
M3 / Z4M regular costs were quite high - servicing and tax stood out for me as I didn’t do much mileage so the 2yr service interval and £550ish road tax added up. Affordable and budgeted for - but value for money can niggle.
Both have engine issues that are quite specialist to fix or prevent. I personally went with a rebuilt 997, but my Z4 hadn’t had the bearings done.
£25k I would have thought would get you a 997 if you prefer it - the Carrera and CS were not too far apart price wise when I bought but market might have moved on. The main thing is the spec of the S seemed to be generally better when I was looking so hard to compare like for like.
After the Z4 I looked at a 996 C4S. I just preferred the 997 appearance and interior to be totally honest so that swung it for me.
I am getting access to a garage to put the car in soon - it has crossed my mind to sell the 997 and get another Z4M (coupe this time!) and SORN it over winter to half the road tax making it more of a high days and holidays car which it would suit well - so both can get under your skin if you use them right!
If you’re local you are welcome to have a look around the car if it helps.
If I could afford it I would go for a 997 c2s but I think £25k is now higher mileage or private sales only. A bit of advice I see over and over is spend a bit more for one from a dealer that knows their stuff, so £25k puts me back in 996 territory. In saying that I’ve seen a few 70k miles, Hartech engine rebuilds for that price so hopefully i could get a solid one. As you say all these cars are getting on a bit in the years so it’s worth biding my time and waiting for a good one - if thats a 997 that would be even better!
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