Moving from manual to automatic
Discussion
Hi all,
Very, very long time lurker - first time poster. I will sincerely appreciate any advice/experiences you can offer.
I've been researching my next car obsessively for over 2 years at this point.
Context -
Not a director, but I earn £80k+. 1 x 10 months old baby. Work from home these days.
I was rear-ended by a Galaxy MPV in 2019 and my back has been struggling with my Octavia II's 1.6 CR TDI estate seats ever since. I installed S3 seats, but they are also horrendously uncomfortable this last year especially (my back may have gotten worse).
I've therefore been looking for a premium estate with pano roof, comfy seats, and modern, top-class performance for over a year. I don't like SUVs and I'm trying to move away from diesel, for several reasons (mostly the noise they make, partly the costs/smell mine now possesses. I want to hear a nice engine noise when I accelerate, for my sins).
My actual dream car is the E63S 4matic+ estate (in black, with carbon interior, pano roof, pre-facelift) but I can't afford that currently - neither the initial purchase, nor the maintenance to keep it going. I'd want to own it outright, for say 10 years, and I'd have to save for 2 or 3 years to afford it. I don't want to endure these seats for another 3 years - I want a solution ASAP.
After probably 300+ hours researching - I landed on the S4 Avant 2017 354 ps petrol as "the car".
Current prices range £30 to £36k for the options I want. There are no active dampers/LSD/auto-cruise cars out there sadly.
I therefore recently took out a loan to buy one [well, have just been approved for - I haven't signed the docs yet - which I'm unlikely to do now - unless I can find a solution here], hoping to be ready to sign on the dotted line this week. (2.8% loan: £771/month for 4 years). Used prices for these are around £32k to £36k depending on options. I can afford it, basically, though it is a lot of money to me. But I figure that's what these things cost, and I would like to own the thing for 5 or 10+ years if possible.
Ok so - current status:
I test drove one yesterday - expectations running high - surely this is the car for me - after all this time....... BUT
DRUMROLL
I found it completely underwhelming and unengaging.
The need to change a gear; gone. The ability to coast (based on road conditions making it worthwhile); gone. And the digital speedo updates so slowly that you don't even see whether you're doing 50 or 55 in that instant, so you have no idea how much to brake to slow down again. It just seemed like I wasn't driving it - it was driving itself? If that makes any sense.
What I think has happened -
Moving from my 2012; manual, 1350kg approx, hydraulic steering, analogue speedo, slow, 45mpg even when ragging it, FWD [Octavia II Greenline] diesel estate car (that I could use all of, without breaking any laws) -
To a very fast - automatic AWD estate car where you just point it down the road, and press the accelerator [and the car does everything for you] - and time and space seems to blur - I just found it pointless/massively disappointing. It sounded like a rocket ship - but I didn't feel part of the experience. It wasn't my driving causing the situation, it was like clicking a button in a game or something. But paying through the nose for the priviledge.
Can I ask (I appreciate this might be contentious, for which I apologise, but this is a genuine question I have) - but have you all "just gotten used to it - that's how it is these days"? (To anyone with an auto estate 3.0L+ engine, 300+ bhp, primarily).
Must I just learn how to use an automatic, and lower my expectations to be content with that? Did/do you share my disillusionment, or am I unusual in this feeling?
I also found the seats quite uncomfortable - I got out the car stiffer/more achy than I got in, that's for sure. I spent about 10 of the 30 mins fiddling with settings in total. Do any owners think I need to spend more time [or have you already - and they really are just not great, even with massage as standard?].
I also definitely think I'd want the radar/auto-cruise function, to allow me to disconnect more on long runs.
To pre-empt some pushback on this stuff -
I know a 30 minute test drive isn't long enough - I had asked Audi for a 2 hour test drive, but the agent on the day didn't seem to want to give me more (might have been my scruffy shoes), so I didn't argue. My counter-argument here is: where else can I get an S4 Avant 2017 for any length of time? I tried to rent something similar, but the hire companies don't seem to offer specific models/anything close.
AWD could be a factor here: If I floor the accelerator in a RWD drive (e.g. M6 Grand Coupe, which was on the list for while, and sort of still is), then the car isn't going to keep my facing forwards - I'd have to moderate the throttle etc - but with an auto - surely that's really difficult? Much easier/more engaging (and more fun) with a manual, no? I want the AWD for winters with my family in the car - so I guess I have to put up with less excitement. Unless you guys can think of a car with more excitement within my budget, that is safe in winter?
My current questions include:
Very, very long time lurker - first time poster. I will sincerely appreciate any advice/experiences you can offer.
I've been researching my next car obsessively for over 2 years at this point.
Context -
Not a director, but I earn £80k+. 1 x 10 months old baby. Work from home these days.
I was rear-ended by a Galaxy MPV in 2019 and my back has been struggling with my Octavia II's 1.6 CR TDI estate seats ever since. I installed S3 seats, but they are also horrendously uncomfortable this last year especially (my back may have gotten worse).
I've therefore been looking for a premium estate with pano roof, comfy seats, and modern, top-class performance for over a year. I don't like SUVs and I'm trying to move away from diesel, for several reasons (mostly the noise they make, partly the costs/smell mine now possesses. I want to hear a nice engine noise when I accelerate, for my sins).
My actual dream car is the E63S 4matic+ estate (in black, with carbon interior, pano roof, pre-facelift) but I can't afford that currently - neither the initial purchase, nor the maintenance to keep it going. I'd want to own it outright, for say 10 years, and I'd have to save for 2 or 3 years to afford it. I don't want to endure these seats for another 3 years - I want a solution ASAP.
After probably 300+ hours researching - I landed on the S4 Avant 2017 354 ps petrol as "the car".
Current prices range £30 to £36k for the options I want. There are no active dampers/LSD/auto-cruise cars out there sadly.
I therefore recently took out a loan to buy one [well, have just been approved for - I haven't signed the docs yet - which I'm unlikely to do now - unless I can find a solution here], hoping to be ready to sign on the dotted line this week. (2.8% loan: £771/month for 4 years). Used prices for these are around £32k to £36k depending on options. I can afford it, basically, though it is a lot of money to me. But I figure that's what these things cost, and I would like to own the thing for 5 or 10+ years if possible.
Ok so - current status:
I test drove one yesterday - expectations running high - surely this is the car for me - after all this time....... BUT
DRUMROLL
I found it completely underwhelming and unengaging.
The need to change a gear; gone. The ability to coast (based on road conditions making it worthwhile); gone. And the digital speedo updates so slowly that you don't even see whether you're doing 50 or 55 in that instant, so you have no idea how much to brake to slow down again. It just seemed like I wasn't driving it - it was driving itself? If that makes any sense.
What I think has happened -
Moving from my 2012; manual, 1350kg approx, hydraulic steering, analogue speedo, slow, 45mpg even when ragging it, FWD [Octavia II Greenline] diesel estate car (that I could use all of, without breaking any laws) -
To a very fast - automatic AWD estate car where you just point it down the road, and press the accelerator [and the car does everything for you] - and time and space seems to blur - I just found it pointless/massively disappointing. It sounded like a rocket ship - but I didn't feel part of the experience. It wasn't my driving causing the situation, it was like clicking a button in a game or something. But paying through the nose for the priviledge.
Can I ask (I appreciate this might be contentious, for which I apologise, but this is a genuine question I have) - but have you all "just gotten used to it - that's how it is these days"? (To anyone with an auto estate 3.0L+ engine, 300+ bhp, primarily).
Must I just learn how to use an automatic, and lower my expectations to be content with that? Did/do you share my disillusionment, or am I unusual in this feeling?
I also found the seats quite uncomfortable - I got out the car stiffer/more achy than I got in, that's for sure. I spent about 10 of the 30 mins fiddling with settings in total. Do any owners think I need to spend more time [or have you already - and they really are just not great, even with massage as standard?].
I also definitely think I'd want the radar/auto-cruise function, to allow me to disconnect more on long runs.
To pre-empt some pushback on this stuff -
I know a 30 minute test drive isn't long enough - I had asked Audi for a 2 hour test drive, but the agent on the day didn't seem to want to give me more (might have been my scruffy shoes), so I didn't argue. My counter-argument here is: where else can I get an S4 Avant 2017 for any length of time? I tried to rent something similar, but the hire companies don't seem to offer specific models/anything close.
AWD could be a factor here: If I floor the accelerator in a RWD drive (e.g. M6 Grand Coupe, which was on the list for while, and sort of still is), then the car isn't going to keep my facing forwards - I'd have to moderate the throttle etc - but with an auto - surely that's really difficult? Much easier/more engaging (and more fun) with a manual, no? I want the AWD for winters with my family in the car - so I guess I have to put up with less excitement. Unless you guys can think of a car with more excitement within my budget, that is safe in winter?
My current questions include:
- Is learning how to use a modern automatic gearbox part of my automotive learning journey - and I just need to suck it up, and get learning? i.e. buy the S4 Avant and just hope for the best? Or buy an auto petrol estate perhaps (with comfy seats); maybe a 530i or 330i and live with it for a few years, to get my head around paddles etc?
- Do you think in time I would come to love the S4 Avant - I just need like 3 months to get used to it? Do I need to use manual to make it feel more involving? Do any of you use manual in your auto cars regularly? Is that what I did wrong? (tbh using manual paddles for the first time in someone else's car that costs a lot of money scares me - should I try a BMW M car track day, to get some instruction perhaps?)
- I'm now looking at a stage 2 2007 RS4 Avant manual B7 with good history but could go bang any day potentially - prices for these are around £30k - do you think that's madness? 74k miles - £30k. I'd keep £5k for repairs. If it exploded the loan payments would really annoy me. The benefit of the 2017 S4 avant is the 2 year extended approved used dealer-based warranty (though dealers near me are badly reviewed tbh - south west). Are there any other used manual sporty cars you'd recommend? Needs a large enough boot to swallow pram and luggage, ideally - we'll be holidaying in UK for next 3 to 4 years while nipper grows up.
- Keeping with the comfy seats theme - I'm now basically filtering a search down to - Multi Contour seats or comfort seats (and finding S class, 540i, etc etc) - but almost all cars in this bracket were £80k - £100k+ cars - so repairs could be ruinous - is this just par for the course, and I need to spend big in order to have comfortable seats? I guess I could budget £10k for repairs, but then budget for car is £25k, which doesn't get me into the top-end stuff.
- I'm also looking into Recaro Ergomed ES replacement seats (having found them recommended on Pistonheads thread https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&... from DaveCWK's post) and simply installing these in my Octavia. They're £2.5k PER SEAT approx. It'd be £5k (some on ebay currently new for £4k a pair, actually) and then I'd have probably the most comfortable car on the market, for a fraction of the cost - and I could take them to future cars too - meaning I could buy indefinite cheap-to-run estate cars and be comfortable in all of them... Has anyone done this?
I made the switch from manual to DCT/DSG style transmission in 2019.
You do need to drive a little differently but you adapt and get used to it. Yes its point and squirt and a lot less involved.
I cant see me going back manual unless its a car on an unreal deal or a polished metal gate.....
My car is a 240bhp diesel Arteon.
You do need to drive a little differently but you adapt and get used to it. Yes its point and squirt and a lot less involved.
I cant see me going back manual unless its a car on an unreal deal or a polished metal gate.....
My car is a 240bhp diesel Arteon.
I drove the manual and automatic versions of my car (M140i) back to back and loved the manual. I bought the auto.
I think part of the reason is that the test drive is ideal conditions whereas the reality is 95% of my driving is traffic, driving through town, etc, and with the auto being more desirable second hand, I figured I didn't have much to lose. 5 years later, I am not regretting the decision one bit and for the daily grind in Comfort, the auto seamlessly gets on with the task and then on the right road, flip it into sport or full manual mode and have fun.
Chris
I think part of the reason is that the test drive is ideal conditions whereas the reality is 95% of my driving is traffic, driving through town, etc, and with the auto being more desirable second hand, I figured I didn't have much to lose. 5 years later, I am not regretting the decision one bit and for the daily grind in Comfort, the auto seamlessly gets on with the task and then on the right road, flip it into sport or full manual mode and have fun.
Chris
You will get use to auto after a few days. Then wonder why you were fussing.
If a 30 minute drive leaves you stiff, then that really sounds like a nightmare and something you should prioritise over anything else. No 'good' experience is going to be had if you are in pain!
How about this- best seats in the business and not a diesel, pano roof, not SUV:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202204124...
If a 30 minute drive leaves you stiff, then that really sounds like a nightmare and something you should prioritise over anything else. No 'good' experience is going to be had if you are in pain!
How about this- best seats in the business and not a diesel, pano roof, not SUV:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202204124...
I couldn't go back to a manual now unless it was something totally focused like a Yaris GR. Besides, there's always paddles if you really want more control.
Small point to note, re. DSG boxes. If you are stuck in slow moving traffic a lot then they may not be the most ideal auto box and a torque convertor type would probably be the better option if doing a lot of crawling.
Small point to note, re. DSG boxes. If you are stuck in slow moving traffic a lot then they may not be the most ideal auto box and a torque convertor type would probably be the better option if doing a lot of crawling.
There are very few cars that will transport a family in comfort and be entertaining/engaging to drive. Personally I'd wind back the budget for the main car and get something well built, nicely equipped and comfortable (big volvo?) And then get something entertaining for the weekend and solo journeys.
CooperS said:
In for the popcorn!
anddundarach said:
Haha. Indeed.charltjr said:
Don't leave it in auto mode, use the paddles.
Thanks - I know it's obvious but I think I needed to be told this.covmutley said:
You will get use to auto after a few days. Then wonder why you were fussing.
If a 30 minute drive leaves you stiff, then that really sounds like a nightmare and something you should prioritise over anything else. No 'good' experience is going to be had if you are in pain!
How about this- best seats in the business and not a diesel, pano roof, not SUV:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202204124...
Thanks - or even https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202112230... and then £18k available for a sports car, per other sensible suggestions. I actually started this whole saga looking for a sports car to complement the diesel estate for trips. It seems my original plan was wise - but the seat comfort has over-taken the desire for the sportcar - and Mrs/nipper don't get a look-in in an Elise, really. I wanted us all to go and have fun together (/awww /cheesy)...If a 30 minute drive leaves you stiff, then that really sounds like a nightmare and something you should prioritise over anything else. No 'good' experience is going to be had if you are in pain!
How about this- best seats in the business and not a diesel, pano roof, not SUV:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202204124...
Cambs_Stuart said:
There are very few cars that will transport a family in comfort and be entertaining/engaging to drive. Personally I'd wind back the budget for the main car and get something well built, nicely equipped and comfortable (big volvo?) And then get something entertaining for the weekend and solo journeys.
I think you might be right, sadly.I was wondering if this comfy-looking C63 might be manageable - https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202202212... - but PH threads indicate 200 mile range and 18 mpg average. My current car (even driving as spiritedly as you can in a 1.6 CR diesel) does 400 - 600 miles on a tank depending on how silly I'm being.
A tank of diesel is more expensive than it once was - but big range is so helpful when you want to drive to e.g. Scotland or Ireland etc.
(I'm not even sure we'd do long car journeys now I think about it (God this is difficult!). Perhaps flying makes more sense when he's so little - and 1.5 hours in a car is a struggle for him. Scotland would be a 6 hour drive or 3 stops en-route
which doesn't sound realistic - surely flying and hiring something up there would make more sense - or just taxis/walk out from the accommodation into the nearby hills....)
I'd like to thank you all for your input - it is genuinely helping me.
Edited by onecarquandry on Monday 25th April 12:20
mickyh7 said:
It's the first time you go for the clutch in your new Automatic car you'll never forget.
The perfect emergency stop, with your left foot !
This. Went from a manual 330i to our first auto (530D) back in about 2005, nearly put the wife through the windscreen the first time I pulled up somewhere. The perfect emergency stop, with your left foot !
To the OP, I wouldn't have a daily car that wasn't automatic now. You'll get used to it in a couple of days and wonder how you ever managed without it IME. Not that you won't miss the manual at certain times, but they'll be far outweighed by the scenarios where your left leg will be thanking you.
Life is so short. Why spend 300+ hours researching only to find the car doesn't suit you?
Regarding comfy seats, you don't need to spend £100k on a car to get comfortable seats! Lots of cheaper priced cars offer comfy seats and seat comfort/driving position is very subjective anyway. What's uncomfortable for you may be very comfortable to many other people.
Might be worth getting an idea of which brand's seats you prefer before devoting another 300+ hours on research.
Regarding comfy seats, you don't need to spend £100k on a car to get comfortable seats! Lots of cheaper priced cars offer comfy seats and seat comfort/driving position is very subjective anyway. What's uncomfortable for you may be very comfortable to many other people.
Might be worth getting an idea of which brand's seats you prefer before devoting another 300+ hours on research.
mickyh7 said:
It's the first time you go for the clutch in your new Automatic car you'll never forget.
The perfect emergency stop, with your left foot !
Ha ha, I did that leaving LA airport in a rental Ford Thunderbird back in 1994 (first time driving an auto) and the chap at the manned car park exit just shook his head and said 'remember there's no clutch pedal sir'. I guess he saw a lot of folk doing the same thing day in day out.The perfect emergency stop, with your left foot !
raspy said:
Life is so short. Why spend 300+ hours researching only to find the car doesn't suit you?
Well, to be honest, I wish I could stop - but this is kind of what I do (outside of work): I quite enjoy weighing things up (purchase decisions especially - and more so for things over £1k in value. So car and house took a lot of research), and/but I struggle to stop.Typically it results in a really, really "right" product decision, and I move on with my life. I have an older phone I still love (Note by Samsung), for example.
This one is proving intractable though.
No, if you don't like driving the car and it hurts your back you shouldn't buy the car.
This is the problem with choosing the make, model and spec of your car based on internet research. For me, the subjective qualities of the car are as important as whether it is objectively the right car for the job.
Modern cars do feel as though they drive themselves, I agree with that, but there will be others which offer more engagement than the Audi.
This is the problem with choosing the make, model and spec of your car based on internet research. For me, the subjective qualities of the car are as important as whether it is objectively the right car for the job.
Modern cars do feel as though they drive themselves, I agree with that, but there will be others which offer more engagement than the Audi.
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