Cayman 987 2.7 or z4m coupé

[Loafers92]

Hi all,

Sometime last year I asked around for some advice in what to get as a replacement for my Elise s2.

I've sold the Elise this week so I'm finally ready to get its replacement in the next 6 months, but since hunting for a new car is half of the fun, I'm starting my search now.

I loved the handling of the Elise and its looks, but it just wasn't that great for drives that are longer than 2 hours away/long distances - perfect for b-road blasts though (I did 20k miles in 2 years doing just that with it).

So what I'm looking for is:

- RWD
- Manual
- Good looks
- fun character - I want to take it out on the weekends and early drives on the small b-roads around me
- good engine sound
- fast (not looking to race on the road but at least the same performance as my Elise would be nice)
- Manageable maintenance costs (1.5k) a year
- Reliable, no inherent engine flaws (looking at you, bore-scored cayman s)
- Good driver feedback
-somewhat practical - I want to use it for trips around Europe
- 2 seats
- Not going to depreciate a ton as I use it for the next 2-3 years
- not a convertible

I've pretty much decided on a 987 Cayman 2.7 - I can't for the moment afford a 2.9 otherwise that would be my pick. I would've loved an S but I don't want to put 30k into buying an S and in a year find out I need to rebuild it for 10-12k (I'm in France).

I like how a cayman looks in the right color (I'm a sucker for blue, yellow, and a dark tan interior), the sound, the practicality, running costs that seem decent for my 10k miles a year useage, handling (tried a 987 S 3 years ago and really enjoyed it) - it seems to me that its like a more practical Elise s2?

Whenever I search around here to find more info on the Cayman 2.7 it seems that some people think its great and has all the power you need for the road and is fun to drive while others think its underpowered and not really all that much, so I'd like to see if it's possible to have some owners feedback, people that have made the jump to a 2.7 or have previously had one.


I also know someone that has a dark blue z4m coupé with just under 100k miles. Kw3 coilovers, big brake kit, some other chassis mods, changed the rod bearings at 60k miles...Owner doesn't need to sell it but doesn't use it anymore either. It used to see a lot of nurburgring laps some years ago, and has always been maintained every year, regardless of mileage.

I wasn't necessarily looking for one but I do love it's looks, and the s54 with some sort of induction mod sounds just borderline pornographic doesn't it?
Are these s54 engines ok for high miles if they've had 8k oil changes, proper warm up times? I'm also not sure of the future value of the z4 if I sell it with 120k miles, as I'd just keep either car for 2-3 years before moving on to a gt3 (I hope..!)

So my choice is now between a low mileage (sub 60k) cayman 2.7 and for the same budget a 100 k miles z4m coupé, and I'm equally tempted by both.

I won't track either of these cars (got a mk2 mx5 for that) and I won't use the car everyday as I have something else for that too.

I won't be doing any of my own maintenance as I prefer to pay someone else to do it and just enjoy driving it (instant ph cred lost there I know)

Are there any other cars I'm missing on? Should I just save up some more and get a cayman 2.9?

Last year I was considering c6 corvettes but they've gone up a bit too much in price around here, and I can't see anything else on the market for the same budget around here (30-32k). I like the 350z and 370z but they're close to the same price as a cayman around here.

Not a fan of e92 coupés as they seem just to normal to me either. TTS or TTRS aren't really my thing either.

[plenty]

A 987 will be a more precise driving instrument, which might be important coming from an Elise. Budget £3k for a suspension refresh to get it driving at its best.

A Z4M will have bags more sense of occasion. The S54 will go forever if bearings have been changed and it's been maintained. As with the 987 (and any car of this age) refreshing wishbones, tie rods and in the Z4M's case rear trailing arm bushes are a very good idea if they haven't been done recently. The ease of DIYing suspension is actually what swung the E85 vs 987 decision for me, although you can get it done cheaper on the BMW than the Porsche (around £1.5k all in at a specialist).

[Om]

I was in a similar situation wrt 2 dr/seat 6cyl rear drive cars and was looking at the Cayman 2.7 or the Z4 3.0 coupe along with the 370z.

The 370z won out in the end as I was looking at 2005/6 Cayman and Z4 for the same price as a lower mileage 2013 370z. The Cayman was going to be from Porsche's reliability doldrums with many owners, miles and intermittent history the Z4 was better wrt finding a straight one but still 7 or 8 years older and fewer to choose from.

The 370z was the sweet spot for me. Still great fun to drive (very different to the Cayman), but totally reliable, well engineered (in a Japanese way), cheap to run and a car I always look back at.

[Belle427]

I've been browsing myself and it would seem there is very little real world difference between the 2.7 and 2.9.
I think a test drive would benefit you really, probably not the quickest straight line car but all about the balance, a bit like the Mx5 in that respect.
It is a pity some are plagued with engine issues but this is blown out of proportion, but saying that I wouldn't take the risk on one.

[SarlechS]

a fair comparison would be the 3.4S (not the base Cayman) vs the Z4M. I had the same dilemma when i bought mine around 8 years ago and although the Z4M would have been a better investment from a depreciation perspective it was night and day on the difference between the two. The Cayman is a precision instrument, i didn't get that engagement from the Z4M, it handles better, the engine is in the right place, the engine sounds better (especially with a secondary cat delete/ exhaust), it has more presence and its better balanced.

It was an easy decision for me, get yourself in both of them for a test drive and decide for yourself

plenty said:

A Z4M will have bags more sense of occasion..

how did you come to this conclusion? i think naturally a Porsche will have much more presence over a BMW Z4M, a car that the average joe cant distinguish the difference between a 2.0 msport and a z4m

Edited by SarlechS on Wednesday 22 June 13:07

[Ash_]

I went from a VX220 to a 2.9 Cayman and really enjoy it, pretty much just as quick (but pulls harder for longer), handles very well (but not quite as well as the VX), loads of creature comforts etc.

It was a no-brainer for me as a stepping stone between the VX and an Evora (which is what I really want in a couple of years).

As others have said, drive both though and see what you prefer.

[ZX10R NIN]

Loafers92 said:

Hi all,

Sometime last year I asked around for some advice in what to get as a replacement for my Elise s2.

I've sold the Elise this week so I'm finally ready to get its replacement in the next 6 months, but since hunting for a new car is half of the fun, I'm starting my search now.

I loved the handling of the Elise and its looks, but it just wasn't that great for drives that are longer than 2 hours away/long distances - perfect for b-road blasts though (I did 20k miles in 2 years doing just that with it).

So what I'm looking for is:

- RWD
- Manual
- Good looks
- fun character - I want to take it out on the weekends and early drives on the small b-roads around me
- good engine sound
- fast (not looking to race on the road but at least the same performance as my Elise would be nice)
- Manageable maintenance costs (1.5k) a year
- Reliable, no inherent engine flaws (looking at you, bore-scored cayman s)
- Good driver feedback
-somewhat practical - I want to use it for trips around Europe
- 2 seats
- Not going to depreciate a ton as I use it for the next 2-3 years
- not a convertible

I've pretty much decided on a 987 Cayman 2.7 - I can't for the moment afford a 2.9 otherwise that would be my pick. I would've loved an S but I don't want to put 30k into buying an S and in a year find out I need to rebuild it for 10-12k (I'm in France).

I like how a cayman looks in the right color (I'm a sucker for blue, yellow, and a dark tan interior), the sound, the practicality, running costs that seem decent for my 10k miles a year useage, handling (tried a 987 S 3 years ago and really enjoyed it) - it seems to me that its like a more practical Elise s2?

Whenever I search around here to find more info on the Cayman 2.7 it seems that some people think its great and has all the power you need for the road and is fun to drive while others think its underpowered and not really all that much, so I'd like to see if it's possible to have some owners feedback, people that have made the jump to a 2.7 or have previously had one.


I also know someone that has a dark blue z4m coupé with just under 100k miles. Kw3 coilovers, big brake kit, some other chassis mods, changed the rod bearings at 60k miles...Owner doesn't need to sell it but doesn't use it anymore either. It used to see a lot of nurburgring laps some years ago, and has always been maintained every year, regardless of mileage.

I wasn't necessarily looking for one but I do love it's looks, and the s54 with some sort of induction mod sounds just borderline pornographic doesn't it?
Are these s54 engines ok for high miles if they've had 8k oil changes, proper warm up times? I'm also not sure of the future value of the z4 if I sell it with 120k miles, as I'd just keep either car for 2-3 years before moving on to a gt3 (I hope..!)

So my choice is now between a low mileage (sub 60k) cayman 2.7 and for the same budget a 100 k miles z4m coupé, and I'm equally tempted by both.

I won't track either of these cars (got a mk2 mx5 for that) and I won't use the car everyday as I have something else for that too.

I won't be doing any of my own maintenance as I prefer to pay someone else to do it and just enjoy driving it (instant ph cred lost there I know)

Are there any other cars I'm missing on? Should I just save up some more and get a cayman 2.9?

Last year I was considering c6 corvettes but they've gone up a bit too much in price around here, and I can't see anything else on the market for the same budget around here (30-32k). I like the 350z and 370z but they're close to the same price as a cayman around here.

Not a fan of e92 coupés as they seem just to normal to me either. TTS or TTRS aren't really my thing either.

I'd say the answer is a 370Z Nismo they're a cracking steer not depreciating to hard, running costs are sensible. It'll do big trips with ease & they have a nice amount of go too.

370Z Nismo:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202206206...

Or a nicely sorted 370 GT:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202206126...

[Mr Tidy]

Everything I have read suggests the Cayman handles scalpel sharp whereas the Z4M is a bit unruly, although the one you are looking at with some KWs and other suspension mods should be sharper.

I've had my Z4MC 2 and a half years and love it, especially the sound of the S54 when you get it up towards the red-line.

But it all comes down to personal choice. I think if you drove both you'd probably have a clear preference.

Good luck whatever you buy.

[TJveloce]

I'm currently in a somewhat same boat as you, OP. The difference being I'm trying to limit my budget and not spend too much and I'm looking for a more older school driving experience. More analogue, as little computer interference as possible.

I'm also trying to stay away from the over aggressive, testosterone driven, chavy looks, over the top body kit look stuff. More of a classic looks.

I even narrowed it down to a similar crop, as I'm also considering the Z4 coupe and Corvettes, which you also did, although the C4 and C5 for me. I think a C6 is in that bracket that it's too much to enjoy on a public road, So you are then paying more for bragging rights and a few track days where you can really use all it can give. Besides I like the looks of the C4 and C5 way more. Pop ups and classic looks!

From your list I would probably go with the Z4. Specially if I was coming from an Elise. At least the Z4 will be totally different, being front engine. I can't think of anything which won't be a let down in handling if you are used to an Elise. So at least Z4 will have an excuse.

Also, I'm trying to stay away from big bills and the Porsche will be more expensive to run. Or at least it has a higher potential for throwing up big bills I would say.

Lastly, I don't like the VW looks of the Porsches. Never did. But this is a personal thing.

[TJveloce]

SarlechS said:

plenty said:

A Z4M will have bags more sense of occasion..

how did you come to this conclusion? i think naturally a Porsche will have much more presence over a BMW Z4M, a car that the average joe cant distinguish the difference between a 2.0 msport and a z4m

Edited by SarlechS on Wednesday 22 June 13:07

I agree with the OP. A Z4 coupe is much more special. More rare, more distinct looking. More exotic. If you take away the headlights and BMW grill, it could be something like a TVR or Ginetta.

The Porsche is a dime a dozen sort of thing. So many of them out there. It's also the cheaper baby 911 of sorts and looks basically the same. 911s are everywhere. It looks the same as any Porsche really. They all look the same. So when you add up all the Boxsters, Caymans, 911s, plus the thousands of Panameras, Cayennes and Macans, which all look basically the same, it's pretty boring in my opinion compared to a Z4 coupe, which you almost never see.

The Z4 coupe doesn't even look like a BMW product honestly. Apart from the headlights and grille as I said.

That roof, stance and profile are more inline with something Zagato would do than BMW.

[Jamescrs]

I have a 986 Boxster with the 2.7 engine and I love mine, the handling on it is superb, very sharp, I have driven mine across europe and did laps on the Nurburg Ring in it and it was faultless, it's so precise it feels like I can put it exactly where I want it to be on the track without issue.

The 2.7 engine is very good, you need to rev it to get the best out of it but once you get to 4000rpm it comes into it's own. It has never felt slow to me and my other car is a BMW 240i which would i'm sure leave it for dead in a straight line but it doesn't feel that way when i'm driving the Porsche, it feels special whenever i'm in it.

I can't comment on the Z4M as i've no experience of that.

I did try a 350Z and on paper I thought I would have preferred it over the Porsche but the reality was a big disappointment for me, the inside was very small I found and couldn't get a good seating position (I am 6ft4) but by comparison the Porsche feels quite spacious inside. I have sat in a Z4 and I am quite comfortable in that too but better in the Porsche.

In terms of luggage space the Porsche is very good again, being mid engined it has two storage compartments, the front boot especially is very deep and ideal for a big holdall if travelling.

[SarlechS]

TJveloce said:

I agree with the OP. A Z4 coupe is much more special. More rare, more distinct looking. More exotic. If you take away the headlights and BMW grill, it could be something like a TVR or Ginetta.

The Porsche is a dime a dozen sort of thing. So many of them out there. It's also the cheaper baby 911 of sorts and looks basically the same. 911s are everywhere. It looks the same as any Porsche really. They all look the same. So when you add up all the Boxsters, Caymans, 911s, plus the thousands of Panameras, Cayennes and Macans, which all look basically the same, it's pretty boring in my opinion compared to a Z4 coupe, which you almost never see.

The Z4 coupe doesn't even look like a BMW product honestly. Apart from the headlights and grille as I said.

That roof, stance and profile are more inline with something Zagato would do than BMW.

I'm not sure how much I value your opinion when you are considering old Chevrolet Corvettes as your next sports car (joking)

Honestly it really is a subjective debate, but I think production numbers of the BMW Z4 as a whole is much higher than 987 Caymans, especially in my area. I can think of at least 3-4 people in my wider family that have owned a Z4 at some point in their lives, I can't say the same for Caymans or Porsche in fact. DVLA/Independent UK car sites also suggest there are fewer Caymans than z4s in the country. Given the fact the Porsche is much more curvaceous, holds a much more prestigious / luxury badge and sounds better with the glorious flat 6, I personally would prefer to turn up to a wedding in a clean 987S over a Z4M. Lets be honest, thats the beautiful thing, if we all thought the same way we'd all be driving the same cars!

[plenty]

SarlechS said:

plenty said:

A Z4M will have bags more sense of occasion..

how did you come to this conclusion? i think naturally a Porsche will have much more presence over a BMW Z4M, a car that the average joe cant distinguish the difference between a 2.0 msport and a z4m

If you enjoy putting your keys down in the pub where others can see them, or basking in the contentment of owning 'your first Porsche' then I can see why that sort of thing might matter.

(Although it might just trouble me slightly that I actually own the runt of the Porsche litter, to be thoroughly overshadowed any time I pull up to the lights next to a 3.2, 3.4, 981, 781 let alone any flavour of 911.)

But if you ignore all of that and simply evaluate the driving experience, the 987 for all of its precision is a clinical tool. It is not a machine borne of passion and neither does it inspire passion. It is efficient, effective, competent. Not exciting. The Z4M by comparison is flawed but a far more emotive device, housing a legendary engine that is the pinnacle of naturally aspirated BMW history and handling that doesn't scythe like a 987 but demands more of the driver.

It's the car that I'd rather get up at dawn for, to go 100 miles for a pint of milk. The car that will live longer in my memories after it's gone. I have a huge amount of respect for the Cayman but it simply doesn't stir my soul in the same way. Even if the average person might be more impressed.

[TJveloce]

SarlechS said:

TJveloce said:

I agree with the OP. A Z4 coupe is much more special. More rare, more distinct looking. More exotic. If you take away the headlights and BMW grill, it could be something like a TVR or Ginetta.

The Porsche is a dime a dozen sort of thing. So many of them out there. It's also the cheaper baby 911 of sorts and looks basically the same. 911s are everywhere. It looks the same as any Porsche really. They all look the same. So when you add up all the Boxsters, Caymans, 911s, plus the thousands of Panameras, Cayennes and Macans, which all look basically the same, it's pretty boring in my opinion compared to a Z4 coupe, which you almost never see.

The Z4 coupe doesn't even look like a BMW product honestly. Apart from the headlights and grille as I said.

That roof, stance and profile are more inline with something Zagato would do than BMW.

I'm not sure how much I value your opinion when you are considering old Chevrolet Corvettes as your next sports car (joking)

Honestly it really is a subjective debate, but I think production numbers of the BMW Z4 as a whole is much higher than 987 Caymans, especially in my area. I can think of at least 3-4 people in my wider family that have owned a Z4 at some point in their lives, I can't say the same for Caymans or Porsche in fact. DVLA/Independent UK car sites also suggest there are fewer Caymans than z4s in the country. Given the fact the Porsche is much more curvaceous, holds a much more prestigious / luxury badge and sounds better with the glorious flat 6, I personally would prefer to turn up to a wedding in a clean 987S over a Z4M. Lets be honest, thats the beautiful thing, if we all thought the same way we'd all be driving the same cars!

Hahaha, go on and snob the Corvette. Spoke as a true German car snob. But an old 20 years C5 would still beat the snot out of your hairdresser car with a tacked on roof Porsche. (joking)

As for the Z4 being common you must be talking about the roadster? The coupe is another animal and it's rare. If you count Boxsters too then the Cayman is even more common. Besides it almost doesn't matter if it's a 987 or another. They all look basically the same. You need to pay a lot of attention to see any updates at all in the looks.

But you are right, this is a subjective thing. It seems that for you, I guess the Porsche is the right choice, if you care about badges and what people think of you when you turn up to a wedding.

Edited by TJveloce on Thursday 23 June 09:38

[SarlechS]

plenty said:

If you enjoy putting your keys down in the pub where others can see them, or basking in the contentment of owning 'your first Porsche' then I can see why that sort of thing might matter.

(Although it might just trouble me slightly that I actually own the runt of the Porsche litter, to be thoroughly overshadowed any time I pull up to the lights next to a 3.2, 3.4, 981, 781 let alone any flavour of 911.)

But if you ignore all of that and simply evaluate the driving experience, the 987 for all of its precision is a clinical tool. It is not a machine borne of passion and neither does it inspire passion. It is efficient, effective, competent. Not exciting. The Z4M by comparison is flawed but a far more emotive device, housing a legendary engine that is the pinnacle of naturally aspirated BMW history and handling that doesn't scythe like a 987 but demands more of the driver.

It's the car that I'd rather get up at dawn for, to go 100 miles for a pint of milk. The car that will live longer in my memories after it's gone. I have a huge amount of respect for the Cayman but it simply doesn't stir my soul in the same way. Even if the average person might be more impressed.

you were the one who suggested "more sense of occasion" so i presumed you were insinuating the publics perception of the car. From my experience having owned hot BMW's and hot Porsche's i can definitely say that the public sentiment towards Porsche is much higher than BMW. Hence my statement about pulling up to a wedding. If i had to put my keys down in a pub I'd rather have a Porsche badge on it rather than a BMW.

I completely disagree with your statement on the driving experience having spent extensive amount of times in both cars. The Z4M has an old rear axel with a comprehensive front end suspension system, the car drives like an old muscle car which is great for drifting but the car itself handles like a bit of a boat. It's over shadowed in handling by its bigger brother the M3, which is heavier but still manages to get higher peak apex speeds. The Z4M isn't a sportscar and this is also backed up by the data, which also suggests it doesn't actually do its job properly as a sportscar (numerous track battles/ straight line speed stats). It's a good 15 seconds slower around the Nürburgring than the 987.1 Cayman S. its some way away from the Cayman S (987.1 never mind its rival the 987.2). The Cayman S is 150kg lighter ~ has around 30-50bhp less (depending on .1 or .2), but more importantly still manages to out pace the z4m around most 2-3 mile race tracks at 2-3 seconds quick, which is a huge margin. The Cayman is a precision tool the Z4M is a Z4 with a big engine in the front, if thats your idea of a great handling car then I guess we will have to agree to disagree. It takes more than having a lively back end to impress me

[plenty]

As you seem very determined to win an argument, I'm happy to reassure you that your opinion is totally valid.

[cerb4.5lee]

Another vote here for a 370Z Nismo or GT. I've had my 370Z Roadster for over 3 years now and I still absolutely love it. It has a full stainless exhaust with HFCs and Stillen Gen 3 intakes, and they definitely help with the enjoyment of it too.

I used to have a Z4M Roadster a few years ago but I didn't really gel with it though, I couldn't get on with the gearbox/ride/suspension. It was an event to drive don't get me wrong, but for me it was too unresolved and flawed. The 370Z is the better car to drive in my opinion overall. The gearbox/suspension/ride are much better in the 370Z for me, however the S54 engine in the Z4M is far more special/more free revving(especially if you are chasing the redline) than the VQ V6 in the 370 though I reckon.

[SarlechS]

plenty said:

As you seem very determined to win an argument, I'm happy to reassure you that your opinion is totally valid.

i think your argument is hugely flawed with no real data backing it up. It's described as a good sports car (3.5-4 stars) by most reputable car journos that care for handling and driver involvement. The Cayman has been a top contender for EVO COTY having managed to get in top 3 numerous times.

Not really seeing it as an argument, more a debate. As i said earlier, it's subjective but your "argument" is definitely one where you stand mostly alone.

[plenty]

SarlechS said:

plenty said:

As you seem very determined to win an argument, I'm happy to reassure you that your opinion is totally valid.

i think your argument is hugely flawed with no real data backing it up. It's described as a good sports car (3.5-4 stars) by most reputable car journos that care for handling and driver involvement. The Cayman has been a top contender for EVO COTY having managed to get in top 3 numerous times.

Not really seeing it as an argument, more a debate. As i said earlier, it's subjective but your "argument" is definitely one where you stand mostly alone.

Knowing when to call it quits is a sign of maturity. But if you insist on engaging in a boring internet squabble with no possible resolution then I'll oblige. It's certainly more entertaining than working on a wet Thursday morning.

You asked me why I said the Z4M has more sense of occasion than 987 Cayman. I gave a number of valid reasons pertaining to emotion and how it makes me feel. You then retorted with a bunch of school-boyish factoids, as if emotion could be definitively quantified through magazine star ratings or lap times.

I have no problem accepting your opinion. Why do you have such difficulty with mine? What motivates you to spend your time trying to convince strangers on the internet that they are wrong about matters that are entirely subjective?

Would you like to now tell me why your breakfast was indisputably superior to my breakfast? Or that your dad can beat up my dad?

[CABC]

I prefer to arrive at weddings in a comfortable car with somebody else driving. I like to drive into the hills in something less comfortable, enjoying the drive and not wanting to draw attention to myself. Am I doing this right?

Always wanted to like the 370, but the ones I’ve driven don’t disguise their weight (or weight distribution).

Porsche is not my preferred brand but there’s no disputing their fine balance. Someone mentioned the Z4M being like a TVR. OP why not try a good Chimeara? Roof down too. In no way is it a Cayman, but it has character (ie old school, needs driving)