Golf R DSG lag - normal?
Discussion
Test drove a 2017 Golf R estate with the DSG yesterday. It was a nice car and performed well in Race mode. But in Normal (or Eco) mode in Drive when I floored it to test the acceleration there was a huge lag and then the DSG caught up and the power came rushing in. Is this normal? It didn't happen in Race mode or using the flappy paddles. Really put me off the car which was otherwise great.
carface_837 said:
Test drove a 2017 Golf R estate with the DSG yesterday. It was a nice car and performed well in Race mode. But in Normal (or Eco) mode in Drive when I floored it to test the acceleration there was a huge lag and then the DSG caught up and the power came rushing in. Is this normal? It didn't happen in Race mode or using the flappy paddles. Really put me off the car which was otherwise great.
Yep. Completely normal for anything fitted with the EA888 lump and DSG box in 'comfort' mode. It isn't any better on the Mk8 models either. This is all done in the name of 'economy'.....yet I can achieve notably better MPG in my 2021 Formentor (same engine & box) by using manual gearbox mode instead.....I'd go as far as to say that is it's also potentially dangerous at junctions and roundabouts, particularly in instances where the auto handbrake doesn't release quick enough and leads you to stall in the middle of the road, as the gearbox uses second to pull away in comfort mode. (Frustratingly the same issue I had with my 2015 Mk7 Golf GTD DSG which hasn't really been properly resolved).The key is using a combination of sport/Race mode and/or keeping the box locked in manual in situations where you know you may want to react quickly.
Edited by MattyD803 on Wednesday 27th July 10:46
MattyD803 said:
carface_837 said:
Test drove a 2017 Golf R estate with the DSG yesterday. It was a nice car and performed well in Race mode. But in Normal (or Eco) mode in Drive when I floored it to test the acceleration there was a huge lag and then the DSG caught up and the power came rushing in. Is this normal? It didn't happen in Race mode or using the flappy paddles. Really put me off the car which was otherwise great.
Yep. Completely normal for anything fitted with the EA888 lump and DSG box in 'comfort' mode. It isn't any better on the Mk8 models either. This is all done in the name of 'economy'.....yet I can achieve notably better MPG in my 2021 Formentor (same engine & box) by using manual gearbox mode instead.....I'd go as far as to say that is it's also potentially dangerous at junctions and roundabouts, particularly in instances where the auto handbrake doesn't release quick enough and leads you to stall in the middle of the road, as the gearbox uses second to pull away in comfort mode. (Frustratingly the same issue I had with my 2015 Mk7 Golf GTD DSG which hasn't really been properly resolved).The key is using a combination of sport/Race mode and/or keeping the box locked in manual in situations where you know you may want to react quickly.
Edited by MattyD803 on Wednesday 27th July 10:46
carface_837 said:
Yes I was thinking of the danger aspect too. Thanks for confirming.
Don't get me wrong, it's not all doom and gloom, you soon get used to the quirks and there is no real issue 98% of the time if you manage your expectation of how it will behave in comfort mode. However, the issue is certainly more prominent than in my Mini Countryman Cooper S (with ZF box) which proceeded it and I do still have rare occasions where it stalls, bogs down and/or takes a particularly long time to shift/go. I can imagine jumping into one (i.e. for a test drive on comfort mode) can be unnerving / annoying - just be aware it's pretty common place.Never personally experienced this but I always flick the car into S when wanting a better response. My general gripe is in eco when in S and you floor it, it kind of coasts afterwards for a second or two. Race mode negates this however.
I'm also quite surprised you can't configure eco with comfort mode for suspension if you have DCC.
I'm also quite surprised you can't configure eco with comfort mode for suspension if you have DCC.
manracer said:
I had this in a 2021 Cupra Formentor VZ2. Part of the reason it was returned.
I would say that a gearbox map can greatly improve the situation though.
Do you know that 100% for sure? I have an Oct VRS with DSG and the mappers I spoke to were non-committal about changing the shift points.I would say that a gearbox map can greatly improve the situation though.
I'm not sure if it's the same as the Golf R issue above but basically the DSG box constantly wants the engine to be turning over at about 1200 RPM. So if ever you're going along at a steady speed and want to accelerate at a decent rate, it's basically always got to drop two gears before doing so. E.g. at 35 mph it's in 5th gear when it ought to be in 3rd.
budgie smuggler said:
Do you know that 100% for sure? I have an Oct VRS with DSG and the mappers I spoke to were non-committal about changing the shift points.
I'm not sure if it's the same as the Golf R issue above but basically the DSG box constantly wants the engine to be turning over at about 1200 RPM. So if ever you're going along at a steady speed and want to accelerate at a decent rate, it's basically always got to drop two gears before doing so. E.g. at 35 mph it's in 5th gear when it ought to be in 3rd.
My Cupra (7 speed) does something similar to this.....not sure on the actual revs but certainly drops to a point right off boost when your at a steady speed.....which means any small adjustment required in acceleration or speed (whether it be to accelerate even gently or just to get up an incline), you can literally watch the instant MPG drop through the floor as it tries to rebuild boost/torque without changing down....not to mention the delay in trying to do so. The worst situation is something like 50mph on an A-Road and it's put you in 7th and your approaching a hill or want to say trim speed up to 60mph following a limit change.I'm not sure if it's the same as the Golf R issue above but basically the DSG box constantly wants the engine to be turning over at about 1200 RPM. So if ever you're going along at a steady speed and want to accelerate at a decent rate, it's basically always got to drop two gears before doing so. E.g. at 35 mph it's in 5th gear when it ought to be in 3rd.
I find that if you manually hold it in 6th, this problem is negated massively and you get a smoother drive and better economy - quite annoying having to do this on an auto though. "S" is way too aggressive with the revs for me to live with day to day, not to mention the rev matching/popping when slowing down. (See separate thread on "pops and bangs")
MattyD803 said:
Don't get me wrong, it's not all doom and gloom, you soon get used to the quirks and there is no real issue 98% of the time if you manage your expectation of how it will behave in comfort mode. However, the issue is certainly more prominent than in my Mini Countryman Cooper S (with ZF box) which proceeded it and I do still have rare occasions where it stalls, bogs down and/or takes a particularly long time to shift/go. I can imagine jumping into one (i.e. for a test drive on comfort mode) can be unnerving / annoying - just be aware it's pretty common place.
Yeh I did wonder whether the box had a problem. I'd struggle to live with that lag on a day to day basis so would probably use Sport / Race mode. Presumably in Individual mode you can adjust the shift speed by selecting Engine mode to Sport and then leaving evreything else to Normal? I would be worried a bit about mpg though being constantly in Sport mode. I got 19mpg on the test drive using mostly Race mode.carface_837 said:
Yeh I did wonder whether the box had a problem. I'd struggle to live with that lag on a day to day basis so would probably use Sport / Race mode. Presumably in Individual mode you can adjust the shift speed by selecting Engine mode to Sport and then leaving evreything else to Normal? I would be worried a bit about mpg though being constantly in Sport mode. I got 19mpg on the test drive using mostly Race mode.
Or you can use D (or what normal gearbox mode is called on a Golf R) and click or double click the left paddle when you anticipate needing to accelerate. It will keep the gear until you go neutral on the throttle, then automatically go back to D mode.A bit irritating on an automatic, but it's still a very good system.
MattyD803 said:
My Cupra (7 speed) does something similar to this.....not sure on the actual revs but certainly drops to a point right off boost when your at a steady speed.....which means any small adjustment required in acceleration or speed (whether it be to accelerate even gently or just to get up an incline), you can literally watch the instant MPG drop through the floor as it tries to rebuild boost/torque without changing down....not to mention the delay in trying to do so. The worst situation is something like 50mph on an A-Road and it's put you in 7th and your approaching a hill or want to say trim speed up to 60mph following a limit change.
I find that if you manually hold it in 6th, this problem is negated massively and you get a smoother drive and better economy - quite annoying having to do this on an auto though. "S" is way too aggressive with the revs for me to live with day to day, not to mention the rev matching/popping when slowing down. (See separate thread on "pops and bangs")
Exactly matty, mine's a 6 sp unit but D keeps it just over tickover, I'm sure it's efficient for CO2 but there is no power there.I find that if you manually hold it in 6th, this problem is negated massively and you get a smoother drive and better economy - quite annoying having to do this on an auto though. "S" is way too aggressive with the revs for me to live with day to day, not to mention the rev matching/popping when slowing down. (See separate thread on "pops and bangs")
Likewise S mode on mine is too aggressive, on a steady throttle it keeps the engine around 3.5-5K RPM which is a bit too high.
I basically want D to be a middle ground which keeps the RPM on steady throttle at a target of 2K RPM instead of 1.2K.
MattyD803 said:
My Cupra (7 speed) does something similar to this.....not sure on the actual revs but certainly drops to a point right off boost when your at a steady speed.....which means any small adjustment required in acceleration or speed (whether it be to accelerate even gently or just to get up an incline), you can literally watch the instant MPG drop through the floor as it tries to rebuild boost/torque without changing down....not to mention the delay in trying to do so. The worst situation is something like 50mph on an A-Road and it's put you in 7th and your approaching a hill or want to say trim speed up to 60mph following a limit change.
I find that if you manually hold it in 6th, this problem is negated massively and you get a smoother drive and better economy - quite annoying having to do this on an auto though. "S" is way too aggressive with the revs for me to live with day to day, not to mention the rev matching/popping when slowing down. (See separate thread on "pops and bangs")
What DSG is in your car?I find that if you manually hold it in 6th, this problem is negated massively and you get a smoother drive and better economy - quite annoying having to do this on an auto though. "S" is way too aggressive with the revs for me to live with day to day, not to mention the rev matching/popping when slowing down. (See separate thread on "pops and bangs")
Lee540 said:
NWMark said:
Yes perfectly normal (audi S3) - if i was driving around in comfort i would always change it to sport when i stopped at junctions / roundabouts because the pick up was so annoying in comfort.
I do this exact thing in my current Golf and previous Octavia.MattyD803 said:
Don't get me wrong, it's not all doom and gloom, you soon get used to the quirks and there is no real issue 98% of the time if you manage your expectation of how it will behave in comfort mode. However, the issue is certainly more prominent than in my Mini Countryman Cooper S (with ZF box) which proceeded it and I do still have rare occasions where it stalls, bogs down and/or takes a particularly long time to shift/go. I can imagine jumping into one (i.e. for a test drive on comfort mode) can be unnerving / annoying - just be aware it's pretty common place.
I didn't think the Mini had the ZF box, they were all Aisin boxes inc the 8 speed. DCT boxes i'm not sure on but didn't think they were ZF either.As for the DSG, everyone i've driven has been like that and is one of the reasons why I will never buy one.
stevemcs said:
I didn't think the Mini had the ZF box, they were all Aisin boxes inc the 8 speed. DCT boxes i'm not sure on but didn't think they were ZF either.
As for the DSG, everyone i've driven has been like that and is one of the reasons why I will never buy one.
Your right actually, in that it wasn’t a ZF box after all. It was a Getrag DCT 7 speed affair, as in the latest 1 series and X1.As for the DSG, everyone i've driven has been like that and is one of the reasons why I will never buy one.
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